Toledo Talk

Your political predictions for Tuesday, November 8

How good are you at prognostications?

This thread is not about who are what you are supporting - it is about your predictions regarding the actual outcomes in a few races/issues.

Here we go:

1) Who will win the Toledo Mayor’s race? Paula or Wade?

2) who will win the Perrysburg Mayor’s race? Olmstead or Mackin?

3) Will State Issue Pass or Fail?

4) Will Hickey be elected to the Washington Local School Board?

What say you?

created by shamrock44 on Nov 06, 2017 at 07:54:11 am     Local-Politics     Comments: 186

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Comments ... #

3 should read will State Issue 2 pass.

posted by shamrock44 on Nov 06, 2017 at 07:55:03 am     #  

I guess the date in the title should be November 7th.

Sheesh.

What a morning!!!

posted by shamrock44 on Nov 06, 2017 at 08:04:50 am     #  

Wade; Mackin;Fail; Hickey will not be elected.

posted by tigers on Nov 06, 2017 at 08:22:37 am     #  

1) PHH in a landslide because this is Toledo.

2) Don't know, don't live there and haven't paid attention.

3) Fail

4) Hickey probably will win, because this is Toledo. Toledo will always vote Jerry Springer over PBS or pork rinds over brussel sprouts. Cars over bike lanes.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 06, 2017 at 08:41:57 am     #   3 people liked this

1.) Wade with good comfort

2.) Mackin

3.) Fail

4.) Hickey stays in obscurity

5.) Beetle Bomb by a nose

posted by Mariner on Nov 06, 2017 at 09:03:20 am     #  

What do you think about City Council? Blade had a pretty interesting assortment of endorsements- Nick Komives, Sam Melden, Alfonso Narvaez, and Clyde Phillips, Jr., Sandy Spang & Rob Ludeman.

4 of the 6 endorsed would be newcomers. I really like this mix, personally.

I'm pretty curious on Issue 2-who feels like they have a firm grasp on both sides of the issue? I watched Jerry Anderson dig into this yesterday, and I can't say I have any more clarity.

posted by ahmahler on Nov 06, 2017 at 09:37:12 am     #   1 person liked this

IMHO, Narvaez is an excellent choice. He has proven through deeds as opposed to just rhetoric that he actually gives a damn about Toledo.

1. I'm thinking Wade will get enough of the Republican vote (what little there is of it in Toledo) to emerge the victor.
2. Have no clue - don't know a thing about either.
3. No idea. I think both sides have done a great job of pushing their agenda and muddying the waters. Like ahmahler, the facts are clear as mud to me.
4. As JoeyGee stated: "Hickey probably will win, because this is Toledo."

posted by Foodie on Nov 06, 2017 at 10:05:22 am     #  

1. I'm thinking Wade will get enough of the Republican vote (what little there is of it in Toledo) to emerge the victor.

THIS. Most of the conservative voters along with democrats who voted trump because they were tired of politicians will vote for Wade imo. PHH just seems like a typical politician, gotta think the constant heat by the blade over "lost funds/found money" swung some voters away from her.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Nov 06, 2017 at 10:11:29 am     #  

I agree with the belief that conservatives will go with Wade, but are there enough that care to vote? Anyone running outside the Democrat/anointed union structure is fighting two opponents--the unions and apathy. Both are probably the most powerful forces in Toledo.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 06, 2017 at 10:40:54 am     #  

Paula took less than 40% of the vote in the primary. While that small sample size is definitely not a direct indication of what general election turnout will be like, I have to believe anyone who voted for Tom will be giving their vote to Wade this time around.

And I agree about there being a refreshing mix of new blood out there. I just hope enough get in to bring about some real change in our city government.

posted by Johio83 on Nov 06, 2017 at 10:58:22 am     #   1 person liked this

Early voting is twice what it was last mayoral contest. 1,700 - a bit over 3,000. The souls to the polls was held yesterday with less than 500 voters considering the majority go to PHH that was a lite turnout no doubt due to the heavy rain. Am not a believer in voodoo but am a staunch supporter of separation of church and state. Exploiting pulpits and houses of God for political purposes has to fall under the province of absolute, divine justice. Sunshine is forecast for Tues. election day for those not requiring a party to perform their civic obligation and duty.

posted by Mariner on Nov 06, 2017 at 11:37:02 am     #  

As a Monclova Twp. resident, my vote won't count (except for a resounding NO on Issue 2) but here's my opinion ...

1.) I'd be going with Wade

2.) Not enough knowledge to decide Perrysburg mayor

3.) NO on Issue 2. I watched Jerry and I thought the points were clear

4.) There is something definitely wrong in Washington Twp. if Hickey is elected. Can't begin to understand that dynamic

5.) Looking at the current at-large council members, only Sandy Spang deserves to be there....so I agree with the Blade's recommended slate of fresh faces...Rob, not so much...

posted by ThePolishFalcon on Nov 06, 2017 at 11:57:23 am     #  

I'm looking forward to Wednesday

posted by upso on Nov 06, 2017 at 11:58:42 am     #  

I could be wrong but I think a smaller voter turnout benefits PHH. How many voters who would have voted for Tom are now going to vote for Wade? How many of those same voters are just not going to show up the polls all together due to apathy? If the turnout is good I think Wade will win comfortably.

posted by glasscityguy on Nov 06, 2017 at 12:05:22 pm     #  

1. PHH wins regrettably. Lower voter turnout will help PHH and in the end Souls to the Polls will propel her to victory. (I voted for Tom, and I will vote for Wade)

2. Mackin

3. Fail

4. Hickey will not be elected

Next 4 years in Toledo - roads not paved, crime increases, pleading to find a way to open the pools every year, you get the spiel.

posted by WestToledoan on Nov 06, 2017 at 12:20:10 pm     #  

1. Wade
2. Mackin
3. Fail
4. I (sadly) could see this going either way.

posted by valbee on Nov 06, 2017 at 01:16:01 pm     #  

1. PHH...i don't see this as being a big turnout race. I think that PHH has a strong base that will carry her..52%.
2. Mackin
3. No on Issue #2
4. I think Hickey wins because there are so many candidates

posted by Dappling2 on Nov 06, 2017 at 01:30:05 pm     #  

1) Who will win the Toledo Mayor’s race? Paula or Wade?
I think it will be close but hoping on Wade. I'm thinking almost, if not all, of the people who voted for Tom will vote for Wade. Wade being endorsed by the Blade sure won't hurt him. Just depends on how the people who didn't vote in the primary that vote tomorrow.

2) who will win the Perrysburg Mayor’s race? Olmstead or Mackin?
No clue on that one since I don't follow PB politics.

3) Will State Issue Pass or Fail?
I think that can go either way. It's confusing and I know several people who early voted that didn't even vote on the issue since they weren't sure what they were even voting on.

4) Will Hickey be elected to the Washington Local School Board?
Not if the voters had half a brain. But we talking about people who voted for PH2 and also voted Carty back in office

posted by classylady on Nov 06, 2017 at 01:34:11 pm     #  

More on Issue 2-
http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2017/10/issue_2_faq_what_you_need_to_k.html

It's a weird initiative. It feels like there could be a better way to lower costs-This only affects about 30% of the population, at most. It sound s like the downside is either lower profits or a threat to raise certain costs to offset. Much of the rhetoric are false statements and assumptions (both sides). This is also a non partisan issue.

Unfortunately, no one seems to have any concrete understanding of what the ramifications could be-good or bad.

posted by ahmahler on Nov 06, 2017 at 01:44:43 pm     #  

Wade yes, issue 2 yes...

posted by SensorG on Nov 06, 2017 at 04:28:52 pm     #  

ISSUE 2...

posted by justareviewer on Nov 06, 2017 at 05:56:18 pm     #   2 people liked this

I normally don't watch commercials on the local affiliates since I either DVR the programs and fastfoward them or will do other things during the commercial breaks and really don't pay attention to them but tonight decided to watch some of the political commercials.

The commercials for Wade concentrate on him and his accomplishments.

The ones for PH2 are mainly negative ads against Wade instead of concentrating on what PH2 has accomplished in office. Has she accomplished that little in office?

posted by classylady on Nov 06, 2017 at 09:52:27 pm     #   4 people liked this

As mayor? Maybe needs to be updated.

http://toledo.oh.gov/government/mayors-office/mayor-paula-hicks-hudson-bio/

posted by justread on Nov 07, 2017 at 04:44:57 am     #  

I might not be on all eight cylinders quite yet my friend but what is not right about the bio?

posted by Mariner on Nov 07, 2017 at 05:13:29 am     #  

Maybe a single accomplishment in her almost three years as mayor?

posted by Johio83 on Nov 07, 2017 at 07:34:17 am     #  

Trouble remains there are none she can claim as her own. Hensville, Promedica, Middlegrounds, Ironville, Dana expansion were all done by others. She has been nothing but a guilty bystander. Golf carts downtown and a lead paint ordinance which will take years to unravel are the legacy.

posted by Mariner on Nov 07, 2017 at 07:48:15 am     #  

In the habit of DVRing everything and zipping past the ads too. Did catch the one which included a copy of Wade's emails looking in on sports scores and got to wondering how emails of the county treasurer are obtained and reprinted publicly. Can the same thing be done for the city of Toledo's mayor? Sure do not want to go down any Hillary holes on this but some guvmint employee somewhere had to provide the copy from his machine or the county server. Could be a nasty piece of business for someone somehow.

posted by Mariner on Nov 07, 2017 at 12:38:48 pm     #   1 person liked this

Mariner posted at 12:38:48 PM on Nov 07, 2017:

In the habit of DVRing everything and zipping past the ads too. Did catch the one which included a copy of Wade's emails looking in on sports scores and got to wondering how emails of the county treasurer are obtained and reprinted publicly. Can the same thing be done for the city of Toledo's mayor? Sure do not want to go down any Hillary holes on this but some guvmint employee somewhere had to provide the copy from his machine or the county server. Could be a nasty piece of business for someone somehow.

Yeah. I have a problem with him checking Cleveland scores and stats. Just because I'm a Tigers fan. Still voting for him though.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Nov 07, 2017 at 01:01:45 pm     #   2 people liked this

I have a bigger problem with the Mayor monitoring Wade's emails than Wade monitoring the Cleveland scores.

posted by justread on Nov 07, 2017 at 01:43:20 pm     #   10 people liked this

Not to worry. I'm sure her actions will be deemed "extremely careless" as opposed to "grossly negligent" and all will be well.

posted by Foodie on Nov 07, 2017 at 01:50:19 pm     #   5 people liked this

I don't have an issue with Wade checking baseball scores. It's not like he's on adult or gambling sites or wasting hours doing personal business.

What I would love to know is how much time Wade spends in his office and how much time PH2 spends in her office at One Government center. If I were a betting woman I'd say Wade is in his office more than PH2 is.

posted by classylady on Nov 07, 2017 at 02:51:14 pm     #  

One might argue that the highest and best use of any public servant's time is not spent in their office.

posted by slowsol on Nov 07, 2017 at 02:54:04 pm     #  

Looks like Wade is gonna win

posted by ckbeats21 on Nov 07, 2017 at 10:06:58 pm     #  

ckbeats21 posted at 10:06:58 PM on Nov 07, 2017:

Looks like Wade is gonna win

It's still early. The Woodlawn Cemetery precinct has not reported results yet.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 07, 2017 at 10:38:15 pm     #  

Maybe Paula will find more votes just like she uncovered the 8 million....

Wade has already declared victory.

Looks like Hickey will get a seat on the board. That's scary. Washington Local is turning into a clown show.

posted by WestToledoan on Nov 07, 2017 at 10:52:26 pm     #   5 people liked this

Why did Carty have to be with PH2 when she called Wade to concede?

The one that really surprised me was Larry Sykes getting reelected.

posted by classylady on Nov 07, 2017 at 11:25:12 pm     #  

slowsol posted at 02:54:04 PM on Nov 07, 2017:

One might argue that the highest and best use of any public servant's time is not spent in their office.

I think this is stronger if you remove the word "their."

posted by justread on Nov 08, 2017 at 05:04:29 am     #   2 people liked this

Washington Local is turning into a clown show.

From outside the district, I'd say it has been a clown show for some time, and this confirms it is not over yet.

posted by justread on Nov 08, 2017 at 05:06:02 am     #   6 people liked this

JoeyGee - "It's still early. The Woodlawn Cemetery precinct has not reported results yet." Best line of the night!

posted by Molsonator on Nov 08, 2017 at 06:38:15 am     #   1 person liked this

I joke about watching WLS is like watching Jerry Springer, but really it's the opposite. Jerry Springer promoted trash culture AFTER being in public office. WLS promotes it as PART of public office.

If I owned a home in that district, I'd be crying right now.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 08, 2017 at 07:02:00 am     #   6 people liked this

Congrats Wade on your victory and for running a gentlemanly campaign. A thank you to Paula for her long hours and efforts and the best of good fortune for the future.

posted by Mariner on Nov 08, 2017 at 07:30:35 am     #   7 people liked this

Ironically I think this means the D party gets to pick Wade's replacement as Treasurer.

posted by In_vin_veritas on Nov 08, 2017 at 08:05:30 am     #  

Glad to see Wade over Paula. He received our two votes. And, in a nod to ahmahler, I voted for Komives and Melden along with Sandy, Rob (held my nose on that one), Patricia Robinson and Narvaez.

Lest you think I've crossed over to the dark side, I was in the "anybody but Paula" camp and was in full agreement that we need some fresh blood on council - even if it meant swapping D's for more D's. Let's face it, in Toledo, you don't get many opportunities to vote for much else.

Too bad we didn't end up with more fresh faces on council.

posted by Foodie on Nov 08, 2017 at 08:47:57 am     #   1 person liked this

Baumhower has publicly promised to never insert himself into WLS politics again now that the election is over.

He even posted a message exchange between himself and his 14 year old daughter, where she asked him to confirm that it was all over for good.

What are the odds that he makes good on that promise?

The first time Hickey does something stupid to draw public scrutiny, he's really not going to jump in with a million excuses for his buddy? Doubt it.

(I'm not even anti-Baumhower. I just don't think he has it in him to refrain.)

posted by mom2 on Nov 08, 2017 at 08:49:25 am     #   1 person liked this

Always thought it was kinda weird for Baumhower to be so wrapped up in WLS when he doesn't live there our have kids in the schools.

Gotta hand it to him, though. He can play his followers like a fiddle.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 08, 2017 at 10:03:39 am     #   2 people liked this

JoeyGee posted at 07:02:00 AM on Nov 08, 2017:

I joke about watching WLS is like watching Jerry Springer, but really it's the opposite. Jerry Springer promoted trash culture AFTER being in public office. WLS promotes it as PART of public office.

If I owned a home in that district, I'd be crying right now.

Hilarious because it's true. Looks like the selfie king of west Toledo is back in the saddle.

posted by SavageFred on Nov 08, 2017 at 10:15:33 am     #  

Hickey's election made the Washington Post:

Ex-school leader who’s banned from district elected to board

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ex-school-leader-whos-banned-from-district-elected-to-board/2017/11/08/af4c47dc-c4a0-11e7-9922-4151f5ca6168_story.html?utm_term=.5c008c61d7b4

posted by mom2 on Nov 08, 2017 at 12:15:33 pm     #   1 person liked this

Yeeeesh. Thanks WLS for keeping it classy!

posted by toledolen_ on Nov 08, 2017 at 12:39:42 pm     #   3 people liked this

I graduated from WLS and if I still lived in WLS district would be embarrassed by this. I figured he would have only received a few votes from his friends and family members, certainly not had received that kind of support.

posted by classylady on Nov 08, 2017 at 01:12:15 pm     #  

How exactly is it going to work with a new Board member who is banned from school property? Previous articles in the Blade seem to indicate that the only people who can lift the ban is the board itself? Does he have the votes to do so? Can he vote himself?

Side note: I would have presumed that the separation agreement WLS entered into with Hickey would have barred him from seeking employment with or election to any post in WLS. That seems to be a huge fail on the school district's part to have not included that.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 08, 2017 at 01:21:35 pm     #   6 people liked this

mom2 posted at 08:49:25 AM on Nov 08, 2017:

Baumhower has publicly promised to never insert himself into WLS politics again now that the election is over.

He even posted a message exchange between himself and his 14 year old daughter, where she asked him to confirm that it was all over for good.

What are the odds that he makes good on that promise?

The first time Hickey does something stupid to draw public scrutiny, he's really not going to jump in with a million excuses for his buddy? Doubt it.

(I'm not even anti-Baumhower. I just don't think he has it in him to refrain.)

I feel so bad for his kids. To have such a narcissistic piece of shit for a father must suck. His Hickey campaign has obviously affected his children negatively based on that text exchange. It seems he doesn’t care.

posted by dell_diva on Nov 08, 2017 at 02:09:56 pm     #   7 people liked this

I live in WLS, and am amazed at the number of Hickey signs I saw in and around our neighborhood. Seriously, why do people revere this guy?

I'm so glad my kids don't attend Whitmer.

posted by Anniecski on Nov 08, 2017 at 02:11:03 pm     #   5 people liked this

I was also surprised that his separation agreement didn't prohibit him from running. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps it would be illegal to prohibit him running from running for an elected position. Or maybe it never cross the school board/legal teams mind that he would even have the balls to run for school board let alone find people willing to elect him.

posted by classylady on Nov 08, 2017 at 02:23:00 pm     #   2 people liked this

Ace_Face posted at 01:21:35 PM on Nov 08, 2017:

How exactly is it going to work with a new Board member who is banned from school property? Previous articles in the Blade seem to indicate that the only people who can lift the ban is the board itself? Does he have the votes to do so? Can he vote himself?

Side note: I would have presumed that the separation agreement WLS entered into with Hickey would have barred him from seeking employment with or election to any post in WLS. That seems to be a huge fail on the school district's part to have not included that.

Based on my previous board experience, I suggest that he would need to recuse himself from any board action related directly to his own highly unusual and unprofessional behaviors.

posted by justread on Nov 08, 2017 at 02:27:08 pm     #   2 people liked this

Anniecski posted at 02:11:03 PM on Nov 08, 2017:

I live in WLS, and am amazed at the number of Hickey signs I saw in and around our neighborhood. Seriously, why do people revere this guy?

I'm so glad my kids don't attend Whitmer.

Same here. I was astounded at the number of Hickey signs in the neighborhood. Even for Tole-duh.

posted by Foodie on Nov 08, 2017 at 02:29:07 pm     #  

Washington Local living parent here. I didn't vote for Hickey. The teachers that I know, that live in the district didn't vote for him either.
Hickey won't make it through his first term before he is removed or has to step down from the board.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Nov 09, 2017 at 12:30:16 am     #   1 person liked this

http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/2017/11/09/Possible-issue-of-race-in-Toledo-election-results-is-debated.html

Tom Troy suggests the election results had a racial basis.

Pete Culp said that PHH lost because white people don't understand what she's done, and that "Toledo's black population" are angry over it. (Racist, stupid, whitey voter.)

I expected better fiscal management from a former state level budget manager and when I didn't get it, I went with a competent county treasurer. If their races were reversed it wouldn't have changed a thing.

Screw you race baiters.

How about the truth: She is a very nice person. She is not super electable. She was elevated through appointment due to special circumstance, and retained by highly unusual, fragmented special election. Receiving just 35% of the vote.

She could not carry a regular mayoral election.

She has NEVER carried a regular mayoral election, unlike Jack Ford and Mike Bell.

This is why she was not entitled to retain the office.

Wade just carried a regular Mayoral election.
I think the article fails to recognize that, and fails to credit Wade where credit is due.

So, Pete Culp is "Angry" because the system worked, but a black person was entitled. I found our racist.

posted by justread on Nov 09, 2017 at 06:22:46 am     #   10 people liked this

On PH2:
Like many people, I am thankful for her calm presence during the crisis following the sudden death of Mayor Collins. Her soft, almost mother-like influence was perfect for the moment during a community's experience of grief, and one of the times when she was able to connect with a majority of people.

posted by justread on Nov 09, 2017 at 07:30:52 am     #   1 person liked this

Refresh my memory. Is this the same Pete Culp who threatened the president of the Port Authority Board in April 2016 and was not dismissed from his seat on the board for assaultive behavior? I see. What really should happen here is a charitable fund raiser held at Huntington with Larry "Boy" Sykes and Pete Culp on the card. It would be necessary to suspend any outdoor adult beverages on the downtown city streets even if the bout were held in January billed as a geezer gangsta title event.

posted by Mariner on Nov 09, 2017 at 08:48:31 am     #   1 person liked this

TrilbyGuy posted at 12:30:16 AM on Nov 09, 2017:

Washington Local living parent here. I didn't vote for Hickey. The teachers that I know, that live in the district didn't vote for him either.
Hickey won't make it through his first term before he is removed or has to step down from the board.

I don't think there are removal provisions in the Ohio Revised Code for school board members; I know there is not for township trustees. So that leaves him stepping down.

Unless ... hmmmm, I believe the rules for school board are similar to township trustees. Remember when the Spencer Township Board tried to remove one of their members? But that was for being absent. I doubt they can do that with Hickey (unless Hickey is unable to attend by I don't know a room with bars?)

posted by not_me on Nov 09, 2017 at 10:00:45 am     #  

And Toledo makes national news again ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ex-school-leader-whos-banned-from-district-elected-to-board/2017/11/08/af4c47dc-c4a0-11e7-9922-4151f5ca6168_story.html?utm_term=.104082962ea9

By Associated Press November 8 at 11:20 AM

TOLEDO, Ohio — A former Ohio school superintendent who resigned amid an investigation and was later banned from district property has been elected to its school board.

posted by not_me on Nov 09, 2017 at 10:02:53 am     #  

Looks like Hickey isn't wasting any time putting the old wedding tackle back on display: http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Hickey-gets-ready-for-return-to-the-Washington-Local-School-District--456217613.html

posted by SavageFred on Nov 09, 2017 at 10:35:20 am     #   3 people liked this

SavageFred posted at 10:35:20 AM on Nov 09, 2017:

Looks like Hickey isn't wasting any time putting the old wedding tackle back on display: http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Hickey-gets-ready-for-return-to-the-Washington-Local-School-District--456217613.html

"The community is the boss, not the board of education," says Hickey. He believes the ban will be lifted once he takes his seat on the board at the beginning of the year. "It's just suicide not to, the community has said, we want him on the board," says Hickey.

This fucking guy. All about him, not about the kids.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 09, 2017 at 01:36:30 pm     #   6 people liked this

SavageFred posted at 10:35:20 AM on Nov 09, 2017:

Looks like Hickey isn't wasting any time putting the old wedding tackle back on display: http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Hickey-gets-ready-for-return-to-the-Washington-Local-School-District--456217613.html

If you have any doubt that the dude is mentally unstable, his choice of outfit for an on-air interview should clear it up. You can’t make this shit up.

posted by dell_diva on Nov 09, 2017 at 01:59:59 pm     #   5 people liked this

...because when you wear 70's shorts there is always a chance your junk will fall out....

posted by Molsonator on Nov 09, 2017 at 02:37:39 pm     #   5 people liked this

dell_diva posted at 01:59:59 PM on Nov 09, 2017:
SavageFred posted at 10:35:20 AM on Nov 09, 2017:

Looks like Hickey isn't wasting any time putting the old wedding tackle back on display: http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Hickey-gets-ready-for-return-to-the-Washington-Local-School-District--456217613.html

If you have any doubt that the dude is mentally unstable, his choice of outfit for an on-air interview should clear it up. You can’t make this shit up.

But he hugs people! he must be qualified.

posted by SavageFred on Nov 09, 2017 at 02:43:56 pm     #   1 person liked this

"... the community has said, we want him on the board," says Hickey."

Nov 7 Blade story

About 15 percent of votes reported went to Mark Hughes, while Mr. Hickey and former board member Tom Ilstrup nearly tied at 12.48 percent and 12.45 percent respectively.

Does that mean 87 percent of the voting WLS community did not choose Hickey?

posted by jr on Nov 09, 2017 at 02:54:59 pm     #   5 people liked this

jr posted at 02:54:59 PM on Nov 09, 2017:

"... the community has said, we want him on the board," says Hickey."

Nov 7 Blade story

About 15 percent of votes reported went to Mark Hughes, while Mr. Hickey and former board member Tom Ilstrup nearly tied at 12.48 percent and 12.45 percent respectively.

Does that mean 87 percent of the voting WLS community did not choose Hickey?

Maybe he thinks the percentage of consent is 12.

posted by Columbusguy on Nov 09, 2017 at 03:23:35 pm     #   4 people liked this

Nicely done, Columbusguy.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 09, 2017 at 03:52:14 pm     #  

jr posted at 02:54:59 PM on Nov 09, 2017:

"... the community has said, we want him on the board," says Hickey."

Nov 7 Blade story

About 15 percent of votes reported went to Mark Hughes, while Mr. Hickey and former board member Tom Ilstrup nearly tied at 12.48 percent and 12.45 percent respectively.

Does that mean 87 percent of the voting WLS community did not choose Hickey?

If you look at this election report:

http://co.lucas.oh.us/DocumentCenter/View/65732

On page 6, you can see that 32.2% of registered votes in WLS voted, or 10,485 voters. Hickey received 3,066 or 29.2% of the voters who voted. Since only 24,562 votes were counted, an awfully lot of people did not vote for the full 3 openings otherwise 10,485 times 3 openings = 31,455 votes would have been cast. That's 22% of the possible votes where dropped - meaning the voter didn't even want to hold their nose and vote for someone.

So you can say 70% didn't choose him, but you'd have to say the same about the other two winners (in round numbers).

posted by not_me on Nov 09, 2017 at 04:02:14 pm     #  

If you have any doubt that the dude is mentally unstable, his choice of outfit for an on-air interview should clear it up. You can’t make this shit up.

Seriously, that's not a valid criticism; he was picking up signs on the day after an election something that a lot of politicians don't bother to do (the early part of the clip showed this). They caught him in the middle of that. Been there, done that, not an issue to be critical of. IMO.

posted by not_me on Nov 09, 2017 at 04:03:51 pm     #  

"... but you'd have to say the same about the other two winners (in round numbers)."

No, we don't because we were not discussing them. The other two were not mentioned in the AP story that appeared in the Washington Post.

The other two have not been described like Hickey.

  • questions into his professional conduct
  • resigned as superintendent shortly before school board officials could consider a resolution to fire him
  • 37 charges compiled by a law firm
  • accusations surfaced that he had inappropriate relationships with students
  • woman said she had sex with Mr. Hickey when she was 14
  • Mr. Hickey has been banned from district property since a 2016
  • he aggressively confronted referees and the district’s athletic director

Over the past two years, Hickey's biggest alternate reality supporter has been a person who was found guilty of domestic violence.

Hickey and his supporters are a special kind of disturbing nuttiness.

From that 13abc.com story

Patrick Hickey says "I just believe this is a day of healing for the district, and a day to move forward where we can return to the kids being the sole focus."

I doubt that the Blade will accept that horseshit.

posted by jr on Nov 09, 2017 at 09:49:59 pm     #   1 person liked this

the situation is completely disgusting.. i have several friends who are removing their kids from the district. i would do the same if i had kids...

posted by upso on Nov 10, 2017 at 01:41:31 am     #   2 people liked this

jr posted at 09:49:59 PM on Nov 09, 2017:

"... but you'd have to say the same about the other two winners (in round numbers)."

No, we don't because we were not discussing them. The other two were not mentioned in the AP story that appeared in the Washington Post.

The other two have not been described like Hickey.

  • questions into his professional conduct
  • resigned as superintendent shortly before school board officials could consider a resolution to fire him
  • 37 charges compiled by a law firm
  • accusations surfaced that he had inappropriate relationships with students
  • woman said she had sex with Mr. Hickey when she was 14
  • Mr. Hickey has been banned from district property since a 2016
  • he aggressively confronted referees and the district’s athletic director

Over the past two years, Hickey's biggest alternate reality supporter has been a person who was found guilty of domestic violence.

Hickey and his supporters are a special kind of disturbing nuttiness.

From that 13abc.com story

Patrick Hickey says "I just believe this is a day of healing for the district, and a day to move forward where we can return to the kids being the sole focus."

I doubt that the Blade will accept that horseshit.

Don't forget the teachers that Hickey was having affairs with and then stalking them.
Getting the WLS board to spend over one hundred grand for Hickey and teachers to attend Ron Clark Academy numerous times so Hickey could continue is love fest at the hotels they were staying at.

When living in Addison having a bumper sticker on his car saying
"If the cars a rock'in don't come a knock'in.
(Not sure if this is true or not).

Hickey is just out for revenge. Wonder what dirt he has on WLS board president Hunter?

posted by reggie on Nov 10, 2017 at 05:46:23 am     #  

37 charges ?!!?!?!?!!!! wtf are THOSE all about ?

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Nov 10, 2017 at 09:35:57 am     #  

Throwing this out there.....

I sit on a couple boards here locally. Both of them require the board to have insurance in case of a lawsuit. I assume the WLS Board does as well? If so, who in their right mind would insure them?

posted by Molsonator on Nov 10, 2017 at 10:08:00 am     #  

"Don't forget the teachers that Hickey was having affairs with and then stalking them. Getting the WLS board to spend over one hundred grand ..."

Updated Hickey's bio with excerpts culled from these Blade stories: one, two, three, and four.

  • questions into his professional conduct
  • resigned as [WLS] superintendent shortly before school board officials could consider a resolution to fire him
  • 37 charges compiled by a law firm
  • he failed to inform the [WLS] district that he had left Addison Community Schools in Addison, Mich., in 1990 after accusations surfaced
  • that he had inappropriate relationships with students
  • woman said she had sex with Mr. Hickey when she was 14
  • an inappropriate “emotional and/or sexual relationship with one or more subordinate teachers"
  • misuse of district funds
  • Mr. Hickey has been banned from district property since a 2016
  • he aggressively confronted referees and the district’s athletic director
  • Magistrate: No further contact for Washington Local board member, Patrick Hickey


From the Nov 8, 2017 13 ABC story

Moving forward, Hickey says he has a 15 step platform to introduce including a financial audit of the district and several proposals to improve communication.

Yet Hickey's charges include a misuse of district funds and failure to communicate to WLS about his past.


Even Baumhower called Hickey an asshole.

Baumhower, who pled guilty in 2016 to domestic violence, wrote a June 2017 blog post titled Friendly Reminder: Please, Don’t Be a Sideline Asshole. Baumhower advised:

With the summer sports season upon us, I wanted to share a little reminder for parents — don’t be an asshole while sitting on the sideline.

And the reasons why Hickey got banned from WLS district property.

Mr. Hickey has been banned from district property since a 2016 incident at a Whitmer High School basketball game where he aggressively confronted referees and the district’s athletic director, and hugged then-interim Superintendent Cherie Mourlam after she had made it clear she was uncomfortable.

Baumhower could have titled his blog post: Friendly Reminder: Please, Don’t Be a Sideline Hickey.


It's hard to top that kind of extreme crazy, but apparently, Baumhower and Hickey did, according MemyselfandI's September 2017 TT comment.

[Hickey] and Jeremy Baumhower are puttting on anti-bullying seminars around the city. Baumhower is the host. Hickey is a panelist, joined by councilwoman Lindsay Webb.

The host of the anti-bullying forum is a guy convicted of domestic violence.

A panelist is a former school official who bullied and harassed a school employee until he got fired.

I assume that Baumhower and Hickey portrayed themselves as victims of bullying, which, if true, would be stunning at a nearly unprecedented level.


"i have several friends who are removing their kids from the district."

That's certainly an inconvenient thing to do, but it's also a sane action to take in a school district community that may contain an inordinate amount of insanity.

posted by jr on Nov 10, 2017 at 11:03:49 am     #  

Looks like before he was completely banned, his separation agreement barred Hickey from attending any events (aside from his kids events) in WLS without prior written permission of the Superintendent or Board President.

Also, check out his signature:

http://www.toledoblade.com/attachment/2015/12/15/Terms-of-separation.pdf

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 10, 2017 at 08:31:03 pm     #  

Is that legitimate? If so, did he intend the smiley face as sarcasm or a taunt of some sort, or did his mental development simply stall out at the age of 14?

Regardless of any accusations or his record +/-, he repeatedly demonstrates the inability to exhibit wise, professional, adult behavior.

When your go to self-supporting statement is,"I've never been convicted of a crime," you know there are some skeletons in the closet.

posted by SavageFred on Nov 12, 2017 at 01:13:23 pm     #   5 people liked this

Ay caramba http://www.toledoblade.com/Editorial-Cartoons/2017/11/12/Kirk-Hickey-s-solution-for-Harvey.html

posted by TrilbyGuy on Nov 12, 2017 at 01:33:28 pm     #   2 people liked this

And a Nov 12, 2017 Blade editorial titled "Washington Local gets trashed with Hickey election" exists within the Blade's new app. The editorial will probably appear on the Blade's website tomorrow.

posted by jr on Nov 12, 2017 at 05:01:29 pm     #  

SavageFred posted at 01:13:23 PM on Nov 12, 2017:

Is that legitimate? If so, did he intend the smiley face as sarcasm or a taunt of some sort, or did his mental development simply stall out at the age of 14?

Regardless of any accusations or his record +/-, he repeatedly demonstrates the inability to exhibit wise, professional, adult behavior.

When your go to self-supporting statement is,"I've never been convicted of a crime," you know there are some skeletons in the closet.

He got a fat severance to walk away without charges and the freedom to work anywhere and pretty much do what he wants--except on district property. Of course the smiley face was a huge thanks and FU to the board.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 12, 2017 at 06:35:35 pm     #   2 people liked this

Here's a link to the change.org petition to keep Patrick Hickey off of Washington Local school grounds.

https://www.change.org/p/residents-for-a-safe-wls-keep-patrick-hickey-s-wls-ban-in-place

posted by ThePhysician on Nov 13, 2017 at 01:13:24 am     #  

There's no reason that a board member has to step foot on school grounds, if the district has a separate administration building.

If he doesn't like not being able to attend athletic events or roam the halls of the schools, he should have considered that before running despite being banned.

posted by mom2 on Nov 13, 2017 at 08:51:58 am     #  

You don't think there's any value in having a school board member see the facilities and teaching environment on a regular basis?

posted by slowsol on Nov 13, 2017 at 09:28:49 am     #  

slowsol posted at 09:28:49 AM on Nov 13, 2017:

You don't think there's any value in having a school board member see the facilities and teaching environment on a regular basis?

I think a few thousand voters in Washington Local through value right out the window.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 13, 2017 at 09:55:57 am     #  

slowsol posted at 09:28:49 AM on Nov 13, 2017:

You don't think there's any value in having a school board member see the facilities and teaching environment on a regular basis?

That might depend on whether the school board member is a somewhat normal human being or Hickey.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Editorials/2017/11/13/Washington-Local-gets-trashed-with-Hickey-election.html

Disgraced former Washington Local Superintendent Patrick Hickey has no business being on the school board, but that is where the district’s voters have put him. The truth is that Mr. Hickey probably had no business working as an administrator in the district in the first place. But an unsavory custom that lets teachers and administrators accused of misconduct quietly resign and move on to new jobs is to blame for that.

It is a sadly familiar story. It even has a name: “Pass the trash”: School districts allow employees to leave and seek new jobs with new employers who are left in the dark about their troubles because districts do not want negative attention and/​or they do not want a lengthy fight.

Washington Local appears to not only be on the receiving end of this practice, but perhaps was itself willing to pass Mr. Hickey along to yet another unwitting employer.

Two things must happen: Federal authorities must establish a searchable national database and require schools to both report teachers and administrators accused of misconduct and check it before hiring anyone. And school boards must end the hushed-up exits that let troubled educators scoot from job to job undetected.

It is time to stop passing the trash.

posted by jr on Nov 13, 2017 at 09:58:24 am     #   2 people liked this

slowsol posted at 09:28:49 AM on Nov 13, 2017:

You don't think there's any value in having a school board member see the facilities and teaching environment on a regular basis?

I'm not saying that there isn't any value for board members in general. However, it's not a reason to overturn the ban.

When you have a board member who has been banned from school property for causing disruptions and harassing staff members, that should take precedence over any potential value that might come from him visiting the facilities.

posted by mom2 on Nov 13, 2017 at 09:59:37 am     #   2 people liked this

Does the school board meet on school grounds or do they meet at another public place. If they meet on district property he would need access to the grounds.

I was under the impression that the school board had to approve building improvements and major repairs. That would also requiring being on school property if they want to review what they are voting on.

I don't see any harm with him being on school board property as long as he escorted by another school board member

posted by classylady on Nov 13, 2017 at 09:59:57 am     #  

classylady posted at 09:59:57 AM on Nov 13, 2017:

Does the school board meet on school grounds or do they meet at another public place. If they meet on district property he would need access to the grounds.

I was under the impression that the school board had to approve building improvements and major repairs. That would also requiring being on school property if they want to review what they are voting on.

I don't see any harm with him being on school board property as long as he escorted by another school board member

The aforementioned separation agreement gave Hickey hundreds of thousands of dollars in exchange for, among other things, agreeing that he would not step foot on WLS property except for attending his children's events. If he wants to not to be forced to hold up his end of the bargain because "the community has spoken," he should repay all the money they paid him to go away.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 13, 2017 at 03:05:41 pm     #   6 people liked this

^^^ This.

It's not like anyone forced him to run for school board.

posted by Anniecski on Nov 13, 2017 at 03:15:03 pm     #   2 people liked this

"If he wants to not to be forced to hold up his end of the bargain because "the community has spoken," he should repay all the money they paid him to go away."

That's a helluva point.

From yesterday's Blade editorial :

When asked why the board would let Mr. Hickey resign with a $300,000 severance package, at least one member of the Washington Local School Board said he wanted to avoid a legal fight. The district needed to “move on” from contentious drama surrounding Mr. Hickey, the board member added.

300,000 clams to go away, yet that's hardly what hickey did.

posted by jr on Nov 13, 2017 at 03:35:15 pm     #   1 person liked this

^^^Those in power need to be made aware of this concept. Might put an end to a lot of this nonsense.

posted by SavageFred on Nov 13, 2017 at 03:50:33 pm     #  

at least one member of the Washington Local School Board said he wanted to avoid a legal fight.

If they had all this evidence of wrongdoing, why would it have been a fight?

posted by Anniecski on Nov 13, 2017 at 03:51:21 pm     #   1 person liked this

SavageFred posted at 03:50:33 PM on Nov 13, 2017:

^^^Those in power need to be made aware of this concept. Might put an end to a lot of this nonsense.

Tom Ilstrup was the President of the Board at the time, signed the agreement, was re-elected to the Board this time around and is an attorney. He should be aware of it.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 13, 2017 at 04:13:59 pm     #   1 person liked this

Anniecski posted at 03:51:21 PM on Nov 13, 2017:

at least one member of the Washington Local School Board said he wanted to avoid a legal fight.

If they had all this evidence of wrongdoing, why would it have been a fight?

It doesn't matter how open-and-shut a case may be, anyone with money to pay a lawyer can drag things out and make it a very painful process. A lot of settlements happen not because one side isn't completely confident they'll win, but because it'll end up costing them less than seeing the entire case through to a judgement.

posted by Johio83 on Nov 13, 2017 at 04:45:19 pm     #   1 person liked this

We just gave a Canadian company $155,000 for a heavy equipment simulator so people don't have to learn how to fix the streets by actually FIXING THE DAMN STREETS. We had to send Ed Moore to college twice, (or maybe we just paid twice) but he figured out how to drive a backhoe on the job.

Maybe we can get a $155,000 bad decision simulator so council people and the mayor can practice making bad decisions whenever they want.

posted by justread on Nov 14, 2017 at 12:40:29 pm     #   2 people liked this

Where's Ron Swanson when we need him?

posted by Johio83 on Nov 14, 2017 at 12:42:54 pm     #  

Hernia surgery.

posted by justread on Nov 14, 2017 at 12:58:12 pm     #  

Unfucking believable.

posted by Mariner on Nov 14, 2017 at 01:40:51 pm     #  

Patrick Roy Moore Hickey

posted by reggie on Nov 15, 2017 at 04:44:16 am     #   2 people liked this

Nov 15, 2017 Ignazio Messina tweet

The @phh4Toledo administration is required to release its proposed 2018 budget today. They say it will be ready by the end of the day.

posted by jr on Nov 15, 2017 at 04:12:41 pm     #  

Again. Ay caramba. "Last I heard, Toledo was still in America." http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2017/11/16/Hickey-s-election-to-Washington-Local-board-prompts-legal-threats-behind-the-scenes.html

posted by TrilbyGuy on Nov 16, 2017 at 01:31:01 pm     #  

TrilbyGuy posted at 01:31:01 PM on Nov 16, 2017:

Again. Ay caramba. "Last I heard, Toledo was still in America." http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2017/11/16/Hickey-s-election-to-Washington-Local-board-prompts-legal-threats-behind-the-scenes.html

Those emails...yikes!

The district's attorney had a very good point - he had not yet been sworn in, so he was not yet an official board member.

Yet he was requesting sideline passes for the football game and making other demands.

It's crazy. He is batshit crazy.

posted by mom2 on Nov 16, 2017 at 01:47:28 pm     #   8 people liked this

"It's crazy. He is batshit crazy."

From today's Blade story:

While Mr. Hickey said staff are flocking to his side, the teachers’ union is steadfastly opposed to his placement on the board. Union President Christopher Hodnicki said in an email last week to members to address the “divisive” aspects of the election that the union would “remain vigilant to keep our kids and staff safe by taking all necessary actions to do so.”

Before the election, Mr. Hodnicki and TAWLS Vice President Fritz Schermbeck spoke to a Blade reporter about how union leadership, once supporters of Mr. Hickey, now say that while some teachers support Mr. Hickey, others are “terrified of retaliation” if they speak against him, and that his election to the board is divisive for the district.

“It's hard to put into words the fear you hear from your own members,” Mr. Schermbeck said. Mr. Hodnicki said Mr. Hickey has twice threatened him with defamation lawsuits. Union leaders say they are concerned about their members’ safety.

posted by jr on Nov 16, 2017 at 02:33:42 pm     #  

Looks like he's counting on going to his daughter's games soon.

Screenshot 2017 11 16 15 01 17

posted by mom2 on Nov 16, 2017 at 03:07:13 pm     #  

http://toledobladedata.com/pdfs/hickeyemails.pdf

Patrick "the community has spoken" Hickey.

Fuck. This. Guy.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 16, 2017 at 04:06:18 pm     #   8 people liked this

That one penny of my property tax dollars are going to benefit this guy in any way makes me want to puke.

posted by Foodie on Nov 16, 2017 at 04:29:53 pm     #   5 people liked this

Please inform all staff, including yourself, to unblock me from any social media account connected to the school district immediately.

OMG, the arrogance! The fact that he is making these demands is unconscionable. Is a recall election possible? Or do we have to wait until he targets another victim and then get him locked up for good?

posted by Anniecski on Nov 16, 2017 at 05:05:44 pm     #   2 people liked this

I used to the ink he was just narcissistic and vindictive. Now I have good reason to believe he is also batshit crazy. Does anyone on TT know his wife? She must be going through hell.

posted by SavageFred on Nov 16, 2017 at 05:07:24 pm     #   2 people liked this

to think

posted by SavageFred on Nov 16, 2017 at 05:07:59 pm     #  

"Or do we have to wait ..."

I'm guessing that he will implode because he cannot help himself. It's who he is.

He believes that he's in charge of the school district. He will try to dominate the school board and run roughshod over the superintendent and other school officials.

From his emails, his modus operandi is clear.

  • "I have never been charged with a crime ..."
  • "Our community has spoken."
  • "I will use every legal recourse at my dispisal ..."

I assume that he meant to write "disposal."

Here's the full text of his Nov 10, 2017 bullying email to the superintendent.


Dr. Hayward,

Please unblock me from your social media accounts and instruct all administrators of wls connected social media accounts to do the same.

The community has spoken, let me do the job I have been elected to do.

My separation agreement needs to be removed from the website.

Terri Kern is using WLS registered trademark on her Facebook 2017 election site. This is trademark infringement and your attorneys should send a cease and desist letter immediately.

Terri Kern also started a petition to keep the ban in place. She continues to harass our district. The community has spoken on this issue. It is the will of the people, which carries enormous weight in court.

I have never been charged with a crime, I did not violate WLS policy. Any parameters give the impression that I have. I will use every legal recourse at my dispisal if you attempt to suppress my ability to do the work I have been duly elected to do.

Lift the ban, take the slings and arrows and move on. Furthering this ban is unacceptable.

Please respond,

Patrick Hickey


When it seems that it cannot get any more bizarre, we only have to wait for him to speak again.

The human debris ordered the superintendent to "take the slings and arrows and move on."

mom2 sums it up well.

"He is batshit crazy."

And after reading the above email, this part of today's Blade story is a legitimate concern.

  • the [teachers'] union would “remain vigilant to keep our kids and staff safe by taking all necessary actions to do so.”
  • others are “terrified of retaliation” if they speak against him
  • Union leaders say they are concerned about their members’ safety.

posted by jr on Nov 16, 2017 at 05:50:58 pm     #   8 people liked this

Mr. Hodnicki said Mr. Hickey has twice threatened him with defamation lawsuits.

Mr. Hickey should be put on notice that because of his notoriety regarding his actions and election, he is now squarely a public figure when it comes to discussions of his conduct and fitness for office and there is no way in hell he would ever win any such lawsuit.

It's a little hard to claim actual damages or tarnishing of a reputation at this point considering the tornado of shit surrounding this man.

If (as I suspect) this is a bullying effort to scare people that they will be bankrupted in legal fees if they dare cross this piss ant, I'm sure there would be a few lawyers who might volunteer to take cases pro bono to prevent the damage this piss ant threatens.

posted by oldhometown on Nov 16, 2017 at 07:45:13 pm     #   6 people liked this

Today I stopped by Maddie and Bella to check out their holiday drink menu. One of the drinks featured Kringle Krumbs.

Kringle Krumbs is owner and manufactured by Jeremy Baumhower. I did not order that particular drink (but I did enjoy a different one).

That was my own very tiny and insignificant SJW boycott. I’m so sad that my favorite local coffee establishment is featuring this product.

posted by dell_diva on Nov 16, 2017 at 08:58:44 pm     #   6 people liked this

Is the Maddie & Bella drink called "Domestic Violence"?

posted by jr on Nov 16, 2017 at 09:09:34 pm     #   9 people liked this

I just don't understand.
Who ARE these people that voted for Hickey, and why ?
And people say Opal could never get elected.
Never say never.

posted by foodie88 on Nov 16, 2017 at 09:47:06 pm     #  

IIRC Hickey campaigned some with two other candidates. Where they elected? If so wls has a major control issue. If not hickey can be managed to a certain extent.

posted by not_me on Nov 16, 2017 at 10:01:07 pm     #  

foodie88 posted at 09:47:06 PM on Nov 16, 2017:

I just don't understand.
Who ARE these people that voted for Hickey, and why ?

And people say Opal could never get elected.

Never say never.

Well, there are 3,066 of them. I am all for ditching the secret ballot just to get all 3,066 names published somewhere so WLS can go back to them with the bill for all the damage Hickey will inevitability inflict.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 16, 2017 at 10:10:44 pm     #   1 person liked this

You cannot make this stuff up !! What kind of medication should he be on ??? I feel bad for the people in the WLS district, perfect example of why you should get out and vote. His Kool-Aid drinkers voted and this is the circus you have to put up with for the next 4 years. He is starting this crap even before he is sworn in.

posted by Hoops on Nov 17, 2017 at 08:27:07 am     #   1 person liked this

Opal? Didnt it sink in last year what the electorate is capable of ?
Re: DJT

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Nov 17, 2017 at 09:32:29 am     #  

Exactly. If you put Opal up against a candidate flawed enough, anything is possible.

posted by justread on Nov 17, 2017 at 09:48:42 am     #   2 people liked this

Anecdotally, my kid shadowed at one of the local private high schools this week.

There were a few current 8th graders from Washington Local shadowing as well. On the parent group tour, their parents specifically mentioned that the current craziness was influencing their decision to pull their kids from the district.

posted by mom2 on Nov 17, 2017 at 10:41:43 am     #   4 people liked this

jr posted at 09:09:34 PM on Nov 16, 2017:

Is the Maddie & Bella drink called "Domestic Violence"?

I take it you didn't participate in the Kickstarter campaign?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1497839315/kringle-krumbs-a-christmas-ale-rim-topper

posted by Spaceace on Nov 18, 2017 at 10:17:58 am     #  

I am old. If they send me a dirty glass, I send it back, not realizing it was an "upgrade."

posted by justread on Nov 18, 2017 at 11:52:20 am     #   1 person liked this

M&B has agreed to no longer carry Kringle Krumbs.

posted by upso on Nov 18, 2017 at 12:06:33 pm     #  

upso posted at 12:06:33 PM on Nov 18, 2017:

M&B has agreed to no longer carry Kringle Krumbs.

Really? What’s the story on that? Because of his support of Hickey?

posted by ahmahler on Nov 18, 2017 at 12:44:38 pm     #  

ahmahler posted at 12:44:38 PM on Nov 18, 2017:
upso posted at 12:06:33 PM on Nov 18, 2017:

M&B has agreed to no longer carry Kringle Krumbs.

Really? What’s the story on that? Because of his support of Hickey?

Either that, or they took issue with his domestic violence conviction.

posted by mom2 on Nov 18, 2017 at 01:48:11 pm     #   6 people liked this

What does Kringle Krumbs have to do with Hickney????

They sell them at Churchhill's and they are being used a glass topping at Cock and Bull

posted by classylady on Nov 18, 2017 at 05:54:48 pm     #  

Kringle Krumbs are made by Baumhower, who has very close connections to Hickey.

posted by upso on Nov 18, 2017 at 06:48:17 pm     #  

Also, google: "jeremy baumhower domestic violence"

posted by upso on Nov 18, 2017 at 06:51:56 pm     #  

mom2 posted at 01:48:11 PM on Nov 18, 2017:
ahmahler posted at 12:44:38 PM on Nov 18, 2017:
upso posted at 12:06:33 PM on Nov 18, 2017:

M&B has agreed to no longer carry Kringle Krumbs.

Really? What’s the story on that? Because of his support of Hickey?

Either that, or they took issue with his domestic violence conviction.

I'm looking forward to a heart warming Baumhauer Facebook post about a local business taking a stand against bullying.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 18, 2017 at 08:13:34 pm     #   5 people liked this

Threads worth re-reading.

From 2014: Where's Econcat88 been?

From 2017: Hickey For Kids Campaign Signs

posted by jr on Nov 18, 2017 at 09:06:19 pm     #  

upso posted at 12:06:33 PM on Nov 18, 2017:

M&B has agreed to no longer carry Kringle Krumbs.

This is fantastic news!!

Now, anyone here have a connection to Churchill’s to get them to pull the product?

posted by dell_diva on Nov 18, 2017 at 10:25:06 pm     #   2 people liked this

According to their facebook page quite a few local places have Kringle Krumbs includes Flicks liquor store and Josephs and a couple downtown bars.

https://www.facebook.com/kringlekrumbs/

posted by classylady on Nov 18, 2017 at 10:43:38 pm     #  

jr posted at 09:06:19 PM on Nov 18, 2017:

Threads worth re-reading.

From 2014: Where's Econcat88 been?

From 2017: Hickey For Kids Campaign Signs

Forgot about JB's ridiculous witch hunt of Econcat88. I think that was one of the first threads I read here.

I like JB's one post on that thread, then... silence. Probably because someone asked him why he lives in Sylvania, sends his kids to school there, yet he loves Toledo so much and pretty much lectures everyone to love it as much as he does and tells everyone, "don't you dare criticize it."

Same with Hickey. He helps get an alleged child rapist elected who is a known cancer for a school district...but he has ZERO stake in that school district. He doesn't have to deal with the mess he creates.

Someone smarter than me will have to confirm that it is real irony that someone can love stuff so much...yet do everything possible to destroy it. Kinda like his last marriage, too, now that I think about it.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 18, 2017 at 10:55:47 pm     #   3 people liked this

Kind of like Francine and Dale Lawrence who use to be the heads of the TPS teacher's union. Francine wanted to voters to approve every levy so she could get a pay raise and the schools would receive more money yet they lived in Sylvania and weren't subject to any of the taxes that paid the couples salary or she would encourage city council to vote against zoning changes for charter schools even though she didn't live in the city

posted by classylady on Nov 18, 2017 at 11:28:00 pm     #  

Baumhower probably remains in Sylvania to be close to his kids, since his first wife lives there.

(I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the mom has primary custody.)

posted by mom2 on Nov 18, 2017 at 11:31:24 pm     #  

I know Washington Local isn't exactly far from Sylvania, but he's only a few streets over from her now.

posted by mom2 on Nov 18, 2017 at 11:34:13 pm     #  

I think Baumhower is a jerk. I always have. I wouldn't want to spend any time with him and I am glad he isn't in my life. I have zero interest in his product. It will never touch my lips.

But I have a question: Are jerks not allowed to have businesses? I'm new at the social justice through career elimination game.

I completely understand that Hickey ending up on the school board is an abomination of sorts for many people. My only involvement is to scratch my head.

But if Hickey invents a product that has nothing to do with teaching, or sexual assault, or stalking, or school board. Let's say he invents a tool for removing paint from windows or something. A widget. No possible harm could come to children. Just this inanimate household object for cleaning. Do we shut it down? Do we make sure the world knows what he did one (or every) summer?

This is an honest question. I am not white knighting for either of these jerks. I don't know either of them, and I don't plan to start. I pictured people picketing Churchill's over this and tried to connect it to the offenses and found it difficult from a logical perspective. I may be missing something.

I am trying to differentiate between the highly evolved justice system based on legal standards reaching back hundreds of years, and the more recently established social justice system, based on well, from what I can tell, emotion.

posted by justread on Nov 19, 2017 at 06:37:57 am     #   2 people liked this

Have no answers to these heavy questions except to say I don't buy widgets based on who made them and my feelings toward the patent holder, manufacturer, shipper, advertiser, stock boy. If I did purchase based on moral judgement then I would not own one single piece of electronics. Liked Bill O'Neill's recent statement on this topic when he said Lighten Up.

posted by Mariner on Nov 19, 2017 at 07:15:29 am     #  

justread posted at 06:37:57 AM on Nov 19, 2017:

I think Baumhower is a jerk. I always have. I wouldn't want to spend any time with him and I am glad he isn't in my life. I have zero interest in his product. It will never touch my lips.

But I have a question: Are jerks not allowed to have businesses? I'm new at the social justice through career elimination game.

I completely understand that Hickey ending up on the school board is an abomination of sorts for many people. My only involvement is to scratch my head.

But if Hickey invents a product that has nothing to do with teaching, or sexual assault, or stalking, or school board. Let's say he invents a tool for removing paint from windows or something. A widget. No possible harm could come to children. Just this inanimate household object for cleaning. Do we shut it down? Do we make sure the world knows what he did one (or every) summer?

This is an honest question. I am not white knighting for either of these jerks. I don't know either of them, and I don't plan to start. I pictured people picketing Churchill's over this and tried to connect it to the offenses and found it difficult from a logical perspective. I may be missing something.

I am trying to differentiate between the highly evolved justice system based on legal standards reaching back hundreds of years, and the more recently established social justice system, based on well, from what I can tell, emotion.

I don’t boycott products or businesses because of an owner’s political beliefs or religious ideologies or anything like that.

My feelings toward JB’s product are different because of his domestic violence conviction. It has nothing to do with his involvement with Hickey.

posted by dell_diva on Nov 19, 2017 at 07:32:27 am     #   3 people liked this

Baumhower has something on justread. It's in his next book!

posted by Molsonator on Nov 19, 2017 at 07:50:47 am     #   1 person liked this

Molsonator posted at 07:50:47 AM on Nov 19, 2017:

Baumhower has something on justread. It's in his next book!

My only crimes are my posts here. Most of the punishment was here too, lol.

I found it an interesting philosophical question, perhaps because I couldn't be much more ambivalent about these particular jerks.

posted by justread on Nov 19, 2017 at 08:09:53 am     #   1 person liked this

justread, I thought it was a great post , because it did make me think.
I like posts that make me ponder things , and see if I end up with a different perspective.

Last night I couldn't sleep for some reason, and I started reading the posts on this thread. That prompted me to go look at Hickey's personal facebook page, and at Baumhower's personal facebook page (not his page set up specifically for these ridiculous crumbs, which sound gross to me, by the way).

Anyways, after reading some of their posts, I came away with one main opinion. Both of these guys are so damn SMUG. In an icky, in -your-face kind of way.

posted by foodie88 on Nov 19, 2017 at 08:42:12 am     #   1 person liked this

dell_diva posted at 10:25:06 PM on Nov 18, 2017:
upso posted at 12:06:33 PM on Nov 18, 2017:

M&B has agreed to no longer carry Kringle Krumbs.

This is fantastic news!!

Now, anyone here have a connection to Churchill’s to get them to pull the product?

Yes, we all do. Don't purchase them at Churchill's and they will disappear from their shelves.

posted by Foodie on Nov 19, 2017 at 03:46:47 pm     #   2 people liked this

Glad I read this thread. I had no clue about Kringle Krumbs. Does anyone have a source? I'm pretty sure Maddie & Bella's had a drink with them last year.

And Maddie & Bella's still carries them downtown. I was there this morning and had a drink that had them on the rim of the glass (was before I read this thread about them). They have an egg nog cold brew on their holiday menu and there may have been another drink on the menu that had them.

I'm pretty sure they were on the rim of the cup of a holiday drink they had last year as well. It's too bad because I thought they made a good granish but I won't order drinks with them based on what I'm reading here, I thought they were a national seasonal item. I'm really surprised M&B uses them.

I don't remember seeing any holiday drinks that mentioned them at Claro when I was there this weekend. Not sure about Rust Belt because I refuse to go there based on their beliefs

posted by jamesteroh on Nov 19, 2017 at 04:24:33 pm     #  

foodie88 posted at 08:42:12 AM on Nov 19, 2017:

justread, I thought it was a great post , because it did make me think.
I like posts that make me ponder things , and see if I end up with a different perspective.

Last night I couldn't sleep for some reason, and I started reading the posts on this thread. That prompted me to go look at Hickey's personal facebook page, and at Baumhower's personal facebook page (not his page set up specifically for these ridiculous crumbs, which sound gross to me, by the way).

Anyways, after reading some of their posts, I came away with one main opinion. Both of these guys are so damn SMUG. In an icky, in -your-face kind of way.

Thanks. I was only raising the philosophical point, not defending them. My defense of them would have no basis, Lol.

But I find the larger question to be interesting in today's world. Where is the ethical line either way. At what point do I support a social terrorist, so to speak, by too easily separating their goods from their unrelated bad deeds? At what point AM I a social terrorist by working in ways to hurt them? Especially if it has also/already been adjudicated in the courts.

There is a new kind of tar and feather in the world today. It comes with a new set of ethical and moral questions.

posted by justread on Nov 19, 2017 at 04:35:40 pm     #   2 people liked this

Justread, you are completely right. I think it's really important to align your own beliefs with the new societal norms that are social public shaming and or protest. I don't think you have to embrace it, but it's not going away. The internet has fundamentally changed how we share information and it's MUCH harder to do something bad (say as a business owner or politician) and not have it haunt you. Long story short, tread lightly in life, generally, if you'd also like to have a social media presence.

While I am a Dem when it comes to local politics (for the most part) I consider myself a libertarian when it comes to where I spend my money. So long as a business doesn't do something I morally disagree with, I really do not care what the business owner believes in.

From a religious point of view, I really do not concern myself with where you pray so long as your day to day actions don't affect me or my friends and family negatively. For example, I don't mind giving money to a church led organization so long as they are not actively trying to negatively affect women's health.

Same with politics. I have zero problems giving money to a Republican owned business, so long as they aren't actively trying to do things that harm my community.

But for me, there are some definite lines in the sand, and for me, spousal abuse, and violence specifically against women is an ABSOLUTE deal breaker. Same with violence towards or sexual abuse of children. Regardless of how pompous a business owner is, that's going to be the actual reason I would call for a boycott.

Baumhower’s Hickey support is just the unpleasant icing on the disgusting cake for which I will actively distance myself from both garbage human beings. And as I spend my money at local establishments that carry this drink sprinkle, I will let them know I will not return until they stop carrying, and I will explain why.

posted by upso on Nov 19, 2017 at 06:56:59 pm     #   7 people liked this

Justread, I believe you are correct in your line of thinking. As much as I detest both men, actively going after their business ventures does not seem justified. Choosing to passively boycott their products certainly seems like a properly reasoned response.

Now, I may not truly understand what you're postulatizing because I'm not very smart, but I think I like what what I think you're suggesting.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 19, 2017 at 07:34:15 pm     #  

"Justread, I believe you are correct in your line of thinking."

In my opinion, justread is incorrect in his thinking because he is discussing a hypothetical and dell_diva, upso, and others are talking specifically about Jeremy Baumhower.

justread asked:

"Are jerks not allowed to have businesses?"

They are certainly allowed to have businesses. And consumers are allowed to express disdain for those businesses, especially in the Baumhower case.

I mentioned this old thread because, in my opinion, a correlation can be made.

Baumhower tried to dox EconCat88. In my opinion, doxxing is cyber bulling. Baumhower wanted to post publicly EconCat88's name and home address. Baumhower tried to solicit help from the mob. How is Baumhower's behavior not considered threatening, menacing, and disturbing?

doxxing - "search for and publish private or identifying information about (a particular individual) on the Internet, typically with malicious intent."

historymike's July 2014 comment about Baumhower's actions:

... outing a person who chooses anonymity and is not committing illegal activity is little more that virtual terrorism.

Baumhower's own words:

Note how Baumhower framed the narrative. He called EconCat88 "Toledo's Biggest Bully," probably in an attempt to make his own act of cyber bulling and internet vigilantism appear noble.

From Baumhower's blog post about wanting to out EconCat88:

I think it is time for his fellow residents to learn of his true identity.

I am offering a cash bounty for any information leading to the true identity of YouTuber EconCat88.

Here are the clues as to who he is ...

Since he wants to be Toledo’s biggest YouTube star, then it’s citizens have the right to know whom he really is.

I want every resident to know whom and to where to send their thanks, praise and adulation.

Mr. EconCat88; if you wish to remain anonymous, I strongly suggest deleting your YouTube videos and page.

I will proudly post who you are and where you lay that hat.

If you have any information that will help expose the identity of EconCat88, please email me ...

That's real. That's specific. That's not hypothetical. What did he imply when he said?

"I want every resident to know whom and to where to send their thanks, praise and adulation."

That's way beyond being a jerk.

View Baumhower's July 2014 Toledo Talk comment.

Sorry, justread, but Baumhower set the rules. Baumhower created the playing field, and now others are playing, except the table is turned.

Note Baumhower's incoherent reasoning for wanting to dox EconCat88:

Youtube is a public medium with public entities. It is very similar to a radio station with a host who chooses to use a fake name.

EconCat88 has voluntarily entered the world of entertainment with his 140 plus videos on Toledo. There is no difference between himself and a host of an angry talk station.

His message may be political in nature, but his forum is entertainment.

If he wanted to keep his videos private and not public, youtube has an option.

Just as the Toledo Blade chooses to name radio personalities by their legal name, I plan on outing EconCat88 by his.

I infer from Baumhower's comment that because someone
used a pseudonym to post public content to the web, then that person needs outed.

This public content was posted anonymously about Baumhower's domestic violence.

http://courtsvr.sylvaniacourt.com/cgi-bin/mcaseno.cgi?pre=CRB&num=1502239&sub=&type=CR

http://courtsvr.sylvaniacourt.com/cgi-bin/mdocket.cgi?pre=CRB&num=1502239&sub=&type=CR

I would say that the people protesting Baumhower's business are unknowingly following Baumhower's lead with how he viewed EconCat88 three years ago.

Baumhower told EconCat88 that if EconCat88 wished to remain anonymous, then EconCat88 should delete his videos.

If Baumhower does not want people to protest his business, then he should not have committed domestic violence.

Baumhower provided clues about EconCat88, and he sought help from the public.

Protesters are providing clues about Baumhower's actions, and the protesters are informing the public.

Baumhower called EconCat88 a bully.

Protesters probably consider Baumhower a bully because of his domestic violence conviction.

Baumhower wanted to out EconCat88 for posting videos that Baumhower disliked.

Protesters want to out Baumhower because of his actions that protesters dislike.

But a huge difference exists: Baumhower committed a crime, and EconCat88 didn't.

And 100 percent of the blame belongs to Baumhower. He created the situation. Nobody else is responsible. He's not a victim.

posted by jr on Nov 19, 2017 at 11:39:37 pm     #   10 people liked this

BRAVO

posted by upso on Nov 20, 2017 at 12:27:55 am     #  

JoeyGee posted at 07:34:15 PM on Nov 19, 2017:

Justread, I believe you are correct in your line of thinking. As much as I detest both men, actively going after their business ventures does not seem justified. Choosing to passively boycott their products certainly seems like a properly reasoned response.

Now, I may not truly understand what you're postulatizing because I'm not very smart, but I think I like what what I think you're suggesting.

I was just pulling on a string on a philosophical sweater. I don't mind if people boycott kringle krumbs or eat them. And, as I continue to mention, I don't like the guys in question because of their behavior. At all. I wrapped "Jerk" around that, but I am sure stronger words could also be applied by those in the know.

I was suggesting we live in a new world, and I am working to understand it. I haven't figured it out yet.

posted by justread on Nov 20, 2017 at 05:12:28 am     #  

Baumhower tried to dox EconCat88. In my opinion, doxxing is cyber bulling

Doxxing is cyber bullying of the highest order, and one of the primary tactics of this new social media justice system. I think it is among the worst modern crimes against freedom and free speech.

Not about Baumhower:
One day, I wonder if we will all be one unpopular comment away from a flash mob in our boss's office. Anonymity will have long before been eradicated with every other cornerstone of freedom in the name of safety anyway.

posted by justread on Nov 20, 2017 at 05:19:50 am     #  

Sorry, justread, but Baumhower set the rules. Baumhower created the playing field, and now others are playing, except the table is turned.

No need to be sorry. I tried pretty hard to be clear that my thoughts, however inspired by this case, had expanded to the larger issue.

I will repeat that I am not defending Baumhower. Therefore, there is no need for anyone to apologize to me for criticizing him, or even for kicking him in the nuts. They aren't my nuts, by proxy or otherwise.

posted by justread on Nov 20, 2017 at 05:29:18 am     #  

justread posted at 05:29:18 AM on Nov 20, 2017:

Sorry, justread, but Baumhower set the rules. Baumhower created the playing field, and now others are playing, except the table is turned.

No need to be sorry. I tried pretty hard to be clear that my thoughts, however inspired by this case, had expanded to the larger issue.

I will repeat that I am not defending Baumhower. Therefore, there is no need for anyone to apologize to me for criticizing him, or even for kicking him in the nuts. They aren't my nuts, by proxy or otherwise.

For crying out loud Justread if Bumhower and Hickey are your friends just admit it. Any thread discussing these two assholes in the last couple of years has you defending them in one way or another.
Just saying.

posted by reggie on Nov 20, 2017 at 05:51:38 am     #  

Anyone using the word Anonymity in conjunction with the www in 2017 is clueless to the mechanics of the net.

posted by Mariner on Nov 20, 2017 at 06:02:46 am     #  

reggie posted at 05:51:38 AM on Nov 20, 2017:
justread posted at 05:29:18 AM on Nov 20, 2017:

Sorry, justread, but Baumhower set the rules. Baumhower created the playing field, and now others are playing, except the table is turned.

No need to be sorry. I tried pretty hard to be clear that my thoughts, however inspired by this case, had expanded to the larger issue.

I will repeat that I am not defending Baumhower. Therefore, there is no need for anyone to apologize to me for criticizing him, or even for kicking him in the nuts. They aren't my nuts, by proxy or otherwise.

For crying out loud Justread if Bumhower and Hickey are your friends just admit it. Any thread discussing these two assholes in the last couple of years has you defending them in one way or another.
Just saying.

You are a douchebag and a troll, and you are out of your mind with this trolling shit. Nobody railed against Econcat's doxxers like I did. Asshole.

Go fuck yourself.

posted by justread on Nov 20, 2017 at 06:49:01 am     #   9 people liked this

Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

posted by OldTimer on Nov 20, 2017 at 07:24:34 am     #  

reggie posted at 05:51:38 AM on Nov 20, 2017:
justread posted at 05:29:18 AM on Nov 20, 2017:

Sorry, justread, but Baumhower set the rules. Baumhower created the playing field, and now others are playing, except the table is turned.

No need to be sorry. I tried pretty hard to be clear that my thoughts, however inspired by this case, had expanded to the larger issue.

I will repeat that I am not defending Baumhower. Therefore, there is no need for anyone to apologize to me for criticizing him, or even for kicking him in the nuts. They aren't my nuts, by proxy or otherwise.

For crying out loud Justread if Bumhower and Hickey are your friends just admit it. Any thread discussing these two assholes in the last couple of years has you defending them in one way or another.
Just saying.

What are you saying, reggie? You have grossly misunderstood everything justread wrote. Was that intentional or lazy? I don't know how you jumped to your wild conclusion.

Since this is the web, you need to post links to support your inflammatory claim that justread has defended Baumhower and Hickey in every related thread over the past two years, or you need to admit that you were trolling.

"... Justread if Bumhower and Hickey are your friends just admit it"

reggie, your perversion of reality is similar to Baumhower and Hickey. Is that a tactic of the "other side"? When someone simply asks logical questions, does the "other side" pounce on the person with baseless claims to paint the person as something else?

Is the flip side to Baumhower and Hickey any better and any different? Did a lot of wackery exist in the WLS opposition to Baumhower and Hickey?

Loony is loony, regardless of the viewpoint. Opposing Hickey and Baumhower with equal craziness accomplishes nothing.

This past weekend, justread committed an act of rational discussion, which is rare on the internet, and reggie, you responded irrationally, in my opinion.

justread criticized Baumhower's actions with multiple comments in that 2014 thread, which, I realize, was more than two years ago. He never defended Baumhower back then.

His negative videos are less dangerous than the "I want him gone" "get the f out of town" "he should get what he deserves" sentiments.

The people who are compelled to harm this guy through some kind of self-righteous revenge cyber stalking and outing are the scariest. Much more concerning than a negative guy and his you tube channel.

I'd rather have a town full of negative downers than a town full of self-righteous stalkers who think that they are the avenging conscience of the rest of us.

reggie, since I cannot recall justread's defense of Hickey and Baumhower over the past two years, I look forward to seeing your links to remind me.

posted by jr on Nov 20, 2017 at 08:33:28 am     #   7 people liked this

I'd just like to take a moment to bask in the glow of someone other than me having a righteous freakout moment before 8am. Bravo, Justread, BRAVO.

posted by endcycle on Nov 20, 2017 at 09:03:33 am     #   4 people liked this

Liked the tar and feather mention. Kinda like Joe McCarthy and Salem MA. of old.

posted by Mariner on Nov 20, 2017 at 11:17:34 am     #  

endcycle posted at 09:03:33 AM on Nov 20, 2017:

I'd just like to take a moment to bask in the glow of someone other than me having a righteous freakout moment before 8am. Bravo, Justread, BRAVO.

Some of us are just morning people. :)

posted by justread on Nov 20, 2017 at 12:17:34 pm     #  

mom2 posted at 08:49:25 AM on Nov 08, 2017:

Baumhower has publicly promised to never insert himself into WLS politics again now that the election is over.

He even posted a message exchange between himself and his 14 year old daughter, where she asked him to confirm that it was all over for good.

What are the odds that he makes good on that promise?

The first time Hickey does something stupid to draw public scrutiny, he's really not going to jump in with a million excuses for his buddy? Doubt it.

(I'm not even anti-Baumhower. I just don't think he has it in him to refrain.)

posted by mom2 on Nov 20, 2017 at 08:24:41 pm     #  

Baumhower chose to make his facebook posts "public", for anyone to see. He knows his own kids see his posts, as well as other kids. His post on November 12th, in my opinion, is totally inappropriate, especially when he encouraged people to make the comments they made. A lot of sexual innuendo humor. Knowing it's public, and his own kids see it. Not exactly setting a good example. But it's just my opinion. Sorry, I tried to post a link, but my phone is not cooperating tonight.

posted by foodie88 on Nov 20, 2017 at 10:01:53 pm     #  

I see this thread got some remodeling. Seems brighter.

Anyway, I went to see that fb post and it/he was not there. (For me anyway.)
But I have read his crap, and I think it sucks. I wouldn't be a consumer of his art if even his behavior (IMO) was closer to societal norms. Never have and never will eat a Kringle Krumb.

While I am obviously cautious on this larger "thing," I think it reasonable to tell a proprietor that they may not want to be co-branded with this person/issue/product because I see they are one in that context. If upso and I walk into a bar and see Kringle Krumbs, I can see us saying "Hey look... creepy crumbs." (OK, it was me, I hypothetically said it. He was hypothetically totally polite. But he laughed.)

I wouldn't want to be the last one to know I was somehow co-branded with all of that.... well... drama.

posted by justread on Nov 21, 2017 at 05:52:56 pm     #   1 person liked this

A school board is equivalent to a private sector board of directors. The purpose of a board of directors is to look after and represent the interest of the shareholders.

With that being said, Hickey has a great point. He had the second highest vote total in the election. He has a constituency. The board or admin in WLS NOT lifting his ban is anti-democratic and goes athwart against the will of the voters. Democracy doesn't always make sense, but it must be respected.

Why all of the hate against Baumhower? Baumhower has a (1st Amendment) voice and a definite large following in Toledo. What makes him an "asshole?" Kind of a harsh word...as is "fuck you" and "troll."

Come on guys....

posted by Dappling2 on Nov 21, 2017 at 07:51:54 pm     #  

"Why all of the hate against Baumhower? Baumhower has a (1st Amendment) voice and a definite large following in Toledo. What makes him an "asshole?" Kind of a harsh word...as is "fuck you" and "troll." "

Huh? I don't think that you are paying attention.

justread's accurate troll comment above was directed at reggie, not Baumhower.

In 2014, Baumhower launched a cyber bulling, internet vigilantism campaign against a user who did nothing wrong. I don't know how Baumhower's actions were not criminal.

In 2016, Baumhower was found guilty of domestic violence for an act that he committed in 2015.

That's domestic violence. That's worse than simply being an asshole. He's not good enough to be called an asshole. I get to be called an asshole, not Baumhower.

And who said that Baumhower should not have a first amendment voice? Nobody is trying to get him booted off Facebook or the web, unlike Baumhower who used extortion in an attempt to get someone to delete his YouTube videos.

It's Baumhower who tried to squelch someone's first amendment voice. You have it backwards.

BTW, consumers also have a first amendment voice. Consumers are permitted to express their displeasure about products and businesses.

"A school board is equivalent to a private sector board of directors."

Really? Tax dollars and all that.

I don't know about WLS, but the TPS board is viewed simply as a springboard to Toledo City Council and other political positions.

"The board or admin in WLS NOT lifting his ban is anti-democratic and goes athwart against the will of the voters."

Hickey got banned from school property because at a basketball game, he "aggressively confronted referees and the district’s athletic director."

Maybe Hickey violated a fan sportsmanship rule, established by the Ohio High School Athletic Association.

And also included in the ban, Hickey gave unwanted physical contact to the new superintendent. Thankfully, it's not a hugging world, anymore.

To me, the ban for being a scumbag can co-exist with Hickey being on the board. One does not cancel out the other. That's the price for Hickey being who he is.

And the voters knew this when they voted for him. Democracy and a constituency have nothing to do with overturning a ban for wretched behavior.

Voters choose a guy who may be unable to do his job completely. That was a known. That's on the voters, not the rest of the board nor the superintendent.

posted by jr on Nov 21, 2017 at 08:41:58 pm     #   3 people liked this

To echo JR, this isn’t a first amendment right-this is consumer choice. Baumhower makes a choice to get a little too personal on social media, rally his friends against things he doesn’t agree with, tried to out a semi famous local anonymous video journalist, promote Hickey as a viable educator AND has a domestic violence charge. All while selling those Kringle crumbs, or whatever (BTW- who the F&?!* puts sugar on their beer glass, on top of already terrible Xmas beers?!?!). Baumhower couldn’t figure out where to build fences and so... you buy Kringle Crumbs, you are giving him money. Over sharing as an entrepreneur can have ramifications.

Justread-all good points. Well said, also, important to have that conversation.

JR-what happened? This wasn’t a /p, then it was, then it wasn’t. Did someone get the hook?

posted by ahmahler on Nov 21, 2017 at 10:40:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

This is interesting with Krinkle Krumbs, I had no clue before reading this thread that were even locally made, let alone owned by Baumhower. I've only had them on a couple of Christmas drinks at Maddie and Bella, not something I'd buy and I don't drink Christmas ales. I agree if you buy his product you are giving him money and I'll start ordering my drinks without the Krinkle Krumbs.

Maddie and Bella still Krinkle Krumbs but they changed the drink menu. On Sunday I had an egg nog cold brew and the menu said the glass had a Krinkle Krumb rim. Today the menu said a sugar cinnamon rim and I asked the barista to make sure it didn't have Krinkle Krumbs and he told me they still used Krinkle Krumbs and didn't realize the menu had been changed to say a sugar cinnamon mix.

posted by jamesteroh on Nov 21, 2017 at 11:27:17 pm     #  

Kind of a harsh word...as is "fuck you" and "troll."

Seeing those words completely excised from their context makes me feel bad.
But the prognosis is good that this thread will be feeling great by next year's Komen race, and will run as a survivor.

posted by justread on Nov 22, 2017 at 05:35:21 am     #  

"JR-what happened? This wasn’t a /p, then it was, then it wasn’t. Did someone get the hook?"

Something like that.

posted by jr on Nov 22, 2017 at 08:22:26 am     #  

From a different thread it would appear that thru humor the f-bomb had been sanctified and even endorsed as a friendly greeting at least when addressing officers of the law. I had planned on using it at the coming Thanksgiving dinner with family but now I'm not so sure that it would be such a good idea.

posted by Mariner on Nov 22, 2017 at 08:50:25 am     #  

In the olden days, TT maintained an f-bomb report for entertainment purposes only.

http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/fbombers.pl

posted by jr on Nov 22, 2017 at 09:55:14 am     #  

....I'm definitely curious what it would look today.

posted by endcycle on Nov 22, 2017 at 10:05:08 am     #  

jr posted at 09:55:14 AM on Nov 22, 2017:

In the olden days, TT maintained an f-bomb report for entertainment purposes only.

http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/fbombers.pl

I was mildly surprised to see that GuestZero (RIP) was only 6th.

MotorWolf must have been quite the character to have 3x GZ's f-bomb count.

posted by mom2 on Nov 22, 2017 at 10:47:07 am     #  

Dappling2 posted at 07:51:54 PM on Nov 21, 2017:

A school board is equivalent to a private sector board of directors. The purpose of a board of directors is to look after and represent the interest of the shareholders.

With that being said, Hickey has a great point. He had the second highest vote total in the election. He has a constituency. The board or admin in WLS NOT lifting his ban is anti-democratic and goes athwart against the will of the voters. Democracy doesn't always make sense, but it must be respected.

Why all of the hate against Baumhower? Baumhower has a (1st Amendment) voice and a definite large following in Toledo. What makes him an "asshole?" Kind of a harsh word...as is "fuck you" and "troll."

Come on guys....

I think it is two separate issues: before Hickey received a blanket ban from WLS for his behavior at the events, he entered into a contractual agreement with the Board to stay away from WLS aside from events his children were involved with. In exchange for his agreement to stay away, he was given several hundred thousand dollars. If I work at a company making widgets and then negotiate a package to leave wherein I agree not to make widgets for a certain period of time or in a certain location, the urgings of friends and family to continue making said widgets do not abrogate my contractual obligation.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 22, 2017 at 01:49:50 pm     #   3 people liked this

Dappling2 posted at 07:51:54 PM on Nov 21, 2017:

A school board is equivalent to a private sector board of directors. The purpose of a board of directors is to look after and represent the interest of the shareholders.

With that being said, Hickey has a great point. He had the second highest vote total in the election. He has a constituency. The board or admin in WLS NOT lifting his ban is anti-democratic and goes athwart against the will of the voters. Democracy doesn't always make sense, but it must be respected.

Why all of the hate against Baumhower? Baumhower has a (1st Amendment) voice and a definite large following in Toledo. What makes him an "asshole?" Kind of a harsh word...as is "fuck you" and "troll."

Come on guys....

Anti-democratic? How so? Was there ballot language pertaining to the ban on the ballot with which Hickey was elected?

Maybe people voted for him BECAUSE he's banned and just wanted to see what would happen.

The election and the ban are two entirely different events. Those 3,066 people that voted for him did so knowingly (I hope) that he was banned from WLS property. That's the man they elected and the situation they elected him into. There is no electoral pixie dust that erases all consequences from his previous actions.

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 22, 2017 at 02:09:58 pm     #   3 people liked this

Well my fellow TT'ers...I am glad that my comments stirred the conversation! Please look forward to my upcoming non-controversial posts on religion and abortion. :-)

Ace_Face...I think that the Board screwed up simply not firing the guy for cause (wasn't there 37 "causes?"). It will be interesting to see if he can argue that he was banned from WLS property as a private citizen, but his newly elected position abrogates that portion of the deal. As an attorney you should know that there are two sides of every argument.

Amahler..my wine consultant friend.. what does "/p" mean?

Hopefully I wasn't almost banned for expressing an unpopular viewpoint?

posted by Dappling2 on Nov 22, 2017 at 03:25:11 pm     #  

The /p is the politics subforum.

This thread was initially on the main page, then for a bit you could only find it in the subforum, and now it's back on the main page again.

posted by mom2 on Nov 22, 2017 at 03:34:22 pm     #  

Thanks for the clarification. I was hoping that I wasn't banned.

One thing I have found out is that one side of the political spectrum is all for "tolerance" and "diversity of thought" as long as it fits into their worldview. If it doesn't fit into their worldview, the speaker must be banned, shouted down, marginalized, and boycotted.

posted by Dappling2 on Nov 22, 2017 at 03:41:13 pm     #   1 person liked this

"One thing I have found out is that one side of the political spectrum is all for "tolerance" and "diversity of thought" as long as it fits into their worldview. If it doesn't fit into their worldview, the speaker must be banned, shouted down, marginalized, and boycotted."

You described JB's actions toward EconCat88.

"Well my fellow TT'ers...I am glad that my comments stirred the conversation! "

Actually, the so-called conversation began weeks, months, and years ago. But we're happy to get you caught up.

posted by jr on Nov 22, 2017 at 04:15:26 pm     #  

Dappling2 posted at 03:25:11 PM on Nov 22, 2017:

Well my fellow TT'ers...I am glad that my comments stirred the conversation! Please look forward to my upcoming non-controversial posts on religion and abortion. :-)

Ace_Face...I think that the Board screwed up simply not firing the guy for cause (wasn't there 37 "causes?"). It will be interesting to see if he can argue that he was banned from WLS property as a private citizen, but his newly elected position abrogates that portion of the deal. As an attorney you should know that there are two sides of every argument.

Amahler..my wine consultant friend.. what does "/p" mean?

Hopefully I wasn't almost banned for expressing an unpopular viewpoint?

There are at least two sides to every argument. I don’t see how the election changes things vis-á-vis the contract. I doubt Hickey consulted legal counsel before embarking on his ego-stroking campaign, but who knows.

posted by Ace_Face on Nov 22, 2017 at 10:26:13 pm     #  

So I take it JB is donating some or all of his proceeds from KK to Carly Cares, right? ‘Cause a stand up guy like he wouldn’t exploit such a sweet young girl in his promo videos on FB for his own personal gain, right?

posted by filthyirishman on Nov 25, 2017 at 10:03:15 pm     #  

?

More info please.

posted by upso on Nov 25, 2017 at 11:49:59 pm     #  

His last few FB live posts promoting KK have included cameos of Carly - she’s a sweet little girl suffering from Progeria. One time - meh, I mean she’s adorable. After that, just rubs me wrong. JB’s proven his first priority is JB, no matter how magnanimous he portends to be. Subtle as her inclusion is, I can’t help but think it was intended on his end. JMO, but it’s not the way I like to do bi-ness. Then again, maybe i’m Just cranky from this heartburn that has me up.

posted by filthyirishman on Nov 26, 2017 at 04:24:58 am     #