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Ron Paul continues to irritate the GOP

At a "debate" in May 2007, Paul partially blamed the Sep 11 terrorist attacks on bad US foreign policy. Paul said:

"Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us? They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years."

The natural reaction to this type of free speech by the Republican establishment was to try to ban Paul from future debates. At that May debate, Rudy Giuliani looked pathetically weak as he had no legitimate response to Paul's comment.


At an Aug 5, 2007 debate, Paul discussed the US military presence in Iraq. This YouTube video is from a Talking Points Memo posting titled Best Line from the Feeble GOP Iowa Debate . Note how Mitt "The Hair" Romney cannot control his rude self. Apparently, "The Hair" forgot he was at a Republican debate when at one point he attacked Democrat candidate Barack Obama with an obviously planned jab.

A Paul quote from the video below:

"We can achieve much more in peace than we can ever achieve in these needless, unconstitutional, undeclared wars."


From the Aug 6, 2007 LA Times story about the debate:

On Iraq, all the contenders, except Paul, stuck with Bush on his gamble that a U.S. military buildup in Baghdad and other regions could turn around the disintegrating U.S. effort there.

And about "The Hair" :

Romney fired a well-rehearsed line about Obama's recent remarks that he would consider meeting with several notorious dictators and that he might take action against Al Qaeda terrorists in Pakistan without approval from that nation's leader.

Of course, everything is probably well-rehearsed in these debates.

Anyway, the Obama camp responded to The Hair:

Obama's campaign was quick to return fire to Romney's riff. "The fact that the same Republican candidates who want to keep 160,000 American troops in the middle of a civil war couldn't agree that we should take out Osama bin Laden if we had him in our sights proves why Americans want to turn the page on the last seven years of Bush-Cheney foreign policy," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton.


Other Ron Paul YouTube videos

created by jr on Aug 06, 2007 at 01:52:57 am     Comments: 18

source      versions      1 person liked this

Comments ... #

I'm sure that the other Republicans wish that Ron Paul would pack up and go home. After all, they don't like the fact that he continues to bring up that nasty war thing and limited government spending. Tisk, tisk.

They'd rather talk about more 'important' national issues like abortion and prayers in school.

posted by Man_with_the_muck_rake on Aug 06, 2007 at 07:29:10 am     #  

Actually, many Republicans find Ron Paul refreshing...and, contrary to the questions asked at many of the debates, abortion and prayer in schools rarely show up as top items of concern in polls of Republicans...

And I'm sure that Democrats would say the same thing should a Republican make a similar type of comment...

posted by MaggieThurber on Aug 06, 2007 at 08:21:08 am     #  

I'm one person that doesn't find Ron Paul very refreshing. He is however a good example of what happens when one gets neutered. It affects a person's mind first then the backbone becomes very soft and you have to have a broomstick shoved... well nevermind.

posted by AmericanPie on Aug 06, 2007 at 05:11:16 pm     #  

contrary to the questions asked at many of the debates, abortion and prayer in schools rarely show up as top items of concern in polls of Republicans...

Ask the evangelical Christians if abortion and school prayer are low on their list.

posted by Man_with_the_muck_rake on Aug 06, 2007 at 08:33:34 pm     #  

MWTMR - evangelical Christians do not constitute a majority of republicans...your original post said republicans would rather talk about abortion and prayer in school - and I again say that those are not the top issues of republican voters. They may be a top issue of a subset, but not the majority.

Here's a link to GOPUSA polling page - you can see the kinds of issues the GOP is polling about...I couldn't find one about abortion or prayer in schools...

http://www.gopusa.com/activist/pollvault/archives.shtml

I think, sometimes, Muck, that people on the left have preconceived ideas about some republicans and lump all of us together according to such a preconceived idea. To say that all Republicans are anti-abortion is like saying that all Democrats are pro-abortion. Neither statement is true. To say that the GOP is comprised primarily of 'evangelical Christians' is like saying that the Democrat Party is comprised primarily of athiests...again, neither statement is true.

there are times when generalizations cannot be avoided ... but this is not such a case.

If you're truly interested, I'd suggest this research from the Pew Research Center:

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=312

this tracks 20 years of political values and core attitudes...it says:

Opinions about abortion have also have changed relatively little over the past several years. A 56% majority opposes making it more difficult for a woman to get an abortion, while 35% favor this. The level of support for making it harder to get an abortion has varied from 30% to 41% over the past 20 years, but there is little indication of a trend in either direction.

There is a sizable partisan gap on this question as well, with 53% of Republicans favoring making it harder to get an abortion, while just 24% of Democrats agree. There is a very large intra-party gap among Republicans, with fully 63% of conservative Republicans wanting to make abortions harder to get, compared with only 37% of moderate and liberal Republicans; moderate and conservative Democrats (30% favor) differ from liberal Democrats (15% favor) on this question as well, but the gap is not as large as among Republicans. There are no significant gender or age differences on this question.

Pew doesn't track school prayer issues, but considering the push to allow Muslim prayers in public schools, I'll be interested in seeing if they do in the future.

posted by MaggieThurber on Aug 06, 2007 at 09:23:28 pm     #  

The fact is, Ms Thurber, that the only way that Republicans have/had captured the WH and Congress was because of Evangelical Christians.

You no doubt already know that Ohio was 'given' to George Bush thanks to evangelical voters who came out in record numbers in our state.

Listen to the GOP debates and tell me that they are not kowtowing to evangelicals and their exclusive interpretation of Christianity.

The GOP would be dead nationally were it not for the coddling of these right-wing Christian groups and every GOP candidate, save Ron Paul, is pandering to this powerful lobby in the Republican Party.

By the way, one might ask: what IS a Republican these days? In my mind's eye, a party cannot be rudderless, drifting aimlessly in the sea of values.

Tell me what you see as the 'core' values of the Republican Party and which national figure best represents these values.

posted by Man_with_the_muck_rake on Aug 07, 2007 at 08:47:52 am     #  

ah Muck...the gop is "kowtowing to evangelicals" the same way the dems are catering to their radical liberal factions...Primaries are like that - and both parties tend to move closer to the middle after they are over. Doing so does not mean that either the radical right or radical left are the dominant factions in either party.

Here's where we agree: a party cannot be rudderless, drifting aimlessly in the sea of values.

The core values of the Republican Party are not represented well in most of our party's national figures...I think this is why so many are dissatisfied, or at least not excited, about the candidates...guess that's why the term RINO has come about...

Some would say that the party's 2004 platform reflects the values. Others say that the platform is merely the outward demonstration of those values. (http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf)

Others use the "I'm a Republican because..." which states:

I Believe... The proper function of government is to do for the people those things that have to be done but cannot be done, or cannot be done as well, by individuals, and that the most effective government is government closest to the people.

I Believe... Good government is based upon the individual and that each person's ability, dignity, freedom, and responsibility must be honored and recognized.

I Believe... The free enterprise and the encouragement of individual initiative and incentive have given this nation an economic system second to none.

I Believe... Sound money management should be our goal.

I Believe... In equal right, equal justice and equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, age, sex or national origin.

I Believe... We must retain those principles of the past worth retaining, yet always be receptive to new ideas with an outlook broad enough to accommodate thoughtful change and varying points of view.

I Believe... That Americans value and should preserve their feeling of national strength and pride, and at the same time share with people everywhere a desire for peace and freedom and the extension of human rights throughout the world.

What I was taught and believe - Core Republican Party Values: Limited government, limited taxation, adherence to the Constitutional powers enumerated for the three branches of government, individual responsibility, 'a hand up versus a hand out," the power of the individual versus the power of the government. I also believe in the "10 Cannots" which was attributed to Lincoln, but was actually written by Rev. William J. H. Boetcker in 1916:

*You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence."
* You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
* You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
* You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
* You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
* You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
* You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatreds.
* You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
* You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
* You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

Personally, I'm a conservative and the GOP has always been the party that best relected my values...although I find myself, like so many others, questioning the party's national leadership when it comes to our suppposedly shared conservative perspectives. Leaders I like and think represent many of the traditional GOP core values: Tom Tancredo, South Carolina Gov. Mark Sanford, Chuck Muth, Star Parker, Thomas Sowell, Harry R. Jackson, Jr., Walter Williams, Richard M. Ebeling, Edwin J. Feulner...

Can you explain for me the core values of the Democrat Party?

posted by MaggieThurber on Aug 07, 2007 at 11:06:28 am     #  

Can you explain for me the core values of the Democrat Party?

No. I think of myself as a centrist with liberal social tendencies. Neither party satisfies me.

I have to laugh, though, at the first two lists of what Republicans stand for, especially smaller government, sound money management, equal rights for all, and adherence to the Constitutional powers.

Wow! A person wouldn't recognize those 'qualities' in today's GOP. My parents were staunch Republicans: Eisenhower Republicans, Dirksen Republicans, Robert Taft Republicans, Rockefeller Republicans.

The characters you listed as examples of Republicans representative of the GOP are out of the ballpark when compared with the four men I listed.

Those were the days, eh Maggie, when a Republican could hold up his/her head proudly at a social gathering with folks of both political parties in attendance. Cordiality ruled, legislation was bi-partisan, compromise was the order of the day.

Look at the odd lot of characters in today's Congress-- self-serving, narrow minded politicos who toe a party line and spit venom at the opposing side of the aisle.

When did that all begin?

Any guesses?

posted by Man_with_the_muck_rake on Aug 07, 2007 at 07:47:59 pm     #  

When did that all begin?

I don't know...I think it's been evolving for quite a while - definitely before I became involved in politics. Sometimes I think it's more about the 'game' of politics and 'winning' at that game, than it is about good public policy...

But I'm hopeful...I see pockets of change - people willing to look at the individual rather than the party, people willing to get involved and speak out when they wouldn't in the past, people who can respect the differences in opinion while still looking for common ground, people who are willing to say 'I'll work WITH you to come up with a solution - rather than just oppose you because you're in the other party'...

we'll see...

posted by MaggieThurber on Aug 07, 2007 at 08:31:42 pm     #  

Is anyone able to answer Maggie's question? Can anyone explain the core values of the Democrats?

posted by AirTrainer on Aug 08, 2007 at 02:40:27 pm     #  

I can AirTrainer.... "Bush... not good"

posted by MikeyA on Aug 08, 2007 at 06:20:37 pm     #  

Leaders I like and think represent many of the traditional GOP core values: Tom Tancredo

I'm sure you found this interesting on HM's blog:

http://historymike.blogspot.com/2007/08/on-tom-tancredo-bombing-muslim-holy.html

posted by McCaskey on Aug 08, 2007 at 06:39:22 pm     #  

McCaskey - here's what he said:

On Tuesday, Tancredo warned a group of Iowans that another terrorist attack would “cause a worldwide economic collapse.” IowaPolitics.com recorded his comments. “If it is up to me, we are going to explain that an attack on this homeland of that nature would be followed by an attack on the holy sites in Mecca and Medina,” Tancredo said. “That is the only thing I can think of that might deter somebody from doing what they would otherwise do. If I am wrong, fine, tell me, and I would be happy to do something else. But you had better find a deterrent, or you will find an attack.”

Seems to me that he's saying he would warn terrorists that if they attack us, we'll attack what they value... He also said he's happy to consider something else, so what would you suggest?

btw - And please don't think that, just because I gave some examples of people who represent many of the traditional GOP core values, means that I will always agree with everything they say...

posted by MaggieThurber on Aug 08, 2007 at 06:56:36 pm     #  

followed by an attack on the holy sites in Mecca and Medina

So, in other words, we'd be attacking Saudi Arabia, since those holy sites are contained within that country.

Well, I'd love to be the fly on the wall to here GWB explain that one to the Bush family's dear and close personal friend Prince Bandar.

posted by McCaskey on Aug 08, 2007 at 07:10:29 pm     #  

me too, McCaskey, me too...

posted by MaggieThurber on Aug 08, 2007 at 07:11:21 pm     #  

Oct 9, 2007 posting at the Laissez-faire blog, which is part of the BlogsMonroe.com network :

Reminder About Ron Paul Speech

Today : Tuesday, October 9th, 7pm on the diag at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor.

View map

posted by jr on Oct 09, 2007 at 11:43:37 am     #  

Oct 11, 2007 Laissez-faire blog posting about the Ron Paul support during and after the debate the other day in Michigan. Videos are included with that post. Some excerpts from the blog post text:

Two nights ago was the republican presidential debate in Dearborn, Michigan. There was a rally held outside the debate, on Michigan Avenue. In all I would estimate a turnout of about 150-200 Ron Paul supporters. The only other candidates that had supporters outside the event were Mitt Romney (~15) and Fred Thompson (~5, who apparently remained in the pen…or went home early).

[I]t was a typical national debate where Dr. Paul had very little time to address the viewers, relative to the other candidates. But as usual, he was the only one offering logical solutions to economic woes.

Following the debate was another Ron Paul Rally on the diag at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. This was the largest rally I have ever seen on campus, with a crowd easily topping 2,000 people. I have heard as high as 3,000 but you can see for yourself in the videos below.

Dr. Paul spoke to the attentive crowd for nearly an hour. He probably received the loudest cheers when he called for the abolition of the IRS and an end to the Iraq occupation.

When he was finished speaking, hundreds of people swarmed the steps of the library, to shake his hand, get a picture with him, or have him sign stickers, books and yard signs. I even saw a few people having him sign money, which he did without flinching. Dr. Paul continued to sign autographs for an hour.

The Rally Made the front page of the Ann Arbor News and the Michigan Daily.

YouTube videos included with the Laissez-faire blog posting:

posted by jr on Oct 11, 2007 at 01:38:14 pm     #  

Oct 18, 2007 Houston Chronicle story :

Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul, the congressman from the Houston area who opposes the Iraq war, has gotten more contributions than any other White House contender from donors identified as affiliated with the military.

According to a Houston Chronicle analysis of campaign records from January through September, Paul received $63,440 in donations from current military employees and several retired military personnel.

Democrat Barack Obama, another war critic, was second in military giving. The Illinois senator got $53,968 during the nine months.

posted by jr on Oct 19, 2007 at 01:30:24 am     #  

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