The Electric Car and Some Problems

I think that parking lots might be able to make a buck off of metering electricity to cars needing to be charged up. Free parking, but you pay for the electricity to keep your battery topped up.

what about solar powered cars. Using the roof of the car for the panel and needed gas when there is no sun. And it would store the energy when not in use. Just an idea.

TL, it might work, but most of the types shown here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_vehicle, seem to hold only one or two people. There is a link to the bottom that indicates Toyota might be coming out with a commercial offering.

Anyone have an idea how they would get their electric vehicle started if it was uncharged in a parking lot? Think of all the things that now happen with our gas-powered cars, and ask the question: how will we overcome this or that problem in the future?

What I've heard and read is that the biggest problem with electric cars are the batteries. The technology for batteries just isn't what it needs to be for electric vehicles to actually be worth the all around cost.

The all around cost is that once you find an electric vehicle, check on how long the batteries are supposed to last. Replacing the batteries costs an arm and leg. Also, disposing of batteries is another hazard which kinda defeats the purpose of driving an electric car to help the environment.

Solar panels the size of a car roof will not power a vehicle for very long. I don't think they make enough power. Solar panels on a house roof help cut electric bills, but you still need batteries for cloudy days and nights.

The technology is getting better and I think that wind and solar power are fantastic. I just wish there weren't so many "snake oil" salesmen pushing it down our throats without completely informing us of the down side.

The reason they've never clicked in this country: length of travel. If they ever get one that goes further than 50-60 miles before conking out-maybe. Until then, they don't stand a chance, and no one other than die-hard tree huggers wants them. The solar panel idea is a good one.

Toyota has been rumored to be looking at a solar Prius. I googled it and there's plenty of conflicting info regarding the matter.

DS, I bet if they even considered cross-country travel with a 50-60 mile range there will be a lot of money made putting up recharging stations. The turnpikes might be able to furnish the "fuel" but when you get out west, it is often a long way from one gas station to another. I bet they'll have a cross-country race (like they did in the early days of the automobile) to promote what are essentially prototypes.

_ One problem that occurred to me is that blackouts occur fairly often (and the addition of many millions of electricity-powered vehicles will add to the demand on the grid)._

When was the last time Toledo had a blackout? 2003 when the whole Northeastern lost power? I've been here almost four years and I've only been without power for more than 15 minutes or so a couple times. I don't know how much of a concern the drain on the electrical grid will be. It will definitely increase electicity usage, but that growth will be fairly gradual over 10 years or so as plug-in vehicles are adopted. Also, most estimates I've seen have cars like the Chevy Volt only costing between $1 and $2 per day averaged over the 50 states (in places like Kentucky you could probably do it for 75 cents).

One of the interesting technologies that is developing now is portable fuel cells that can pretty inexpensively store a lot of electricity. By the time electric cars begin rolling out I could see how the technology could have advanced to the point of having an affordable fuel cell stored in the trunk to be used in cases such as traffic jams, severe weather, or temprorary blackouts.

Actually, those in the know say that mass adoption of electric vehicles would overtax the electric grid as it exists today. Can you imagine what the utilities will want for rates if they have to upgrade to handle the charging capacity of 10-20 million electric cars? Regardless, the auto makers and the government need to get together and figure out what direction to go.

The longer we depend on petroleum, the closer we creep to disaster. And I don't mean environmental. Oil is going to begin to disappear more and more quickly as China and other emerging countries become more industrialized and we WILL be fighting wars strictly to gain and maintain control over the sources. Without established R&D into new sources of power, someone is going to be screwed and there is no guarantee it won't be us.

The perfect hybrid will be hydrogen/battery. The hydrogen available from suburban/rural solar and wind generated hydrogen from electrolysis. In the 90's California had GMs EV-1 that went 120 miles on a charge. (documentary: Who Killed The Electric Car, Amazon.com $12) GM sold the battery to Texaco.
But the lithium polymer technology continues to improve and you'll eventually see at least 400-500 mile range from such a battery. If you run out of charge in spite of all the warmings the computers give you,,well that would be pretty rare. If you run out of charge, you call triple A and they come out and top off your hydrogen tank. Expect that platinum will soon not be necessary for fuel cell production, and not necessary for efficient electrolysis.

Even if the car were all electric, a good feature would be to charge at a slower rate via a normal 120 volt ac 15 or 20 amp plug, instead of the other high amperage plug-in you would normally use.

By the way the lithium polymers are stable, don't blow up, don't burn, and can charge to 90% in 20 minutes on a "smart charger".

Prime, I recently read Hyundai is well ahead in the race to bring lithium polymer batteries to market within their future hybrids. Won't GM and Toyota be using lithium ion batteries with the Volt and Prius next year?

Back home, in the frozen tundra, electrical heaters for your care batter, oil pan, and freeze plug (an electric element that heats your antifreeze, are mandatory in the winter. So businesses provide parking lots with electric posts for their employees. Most commercial businesses realize their customers will not be at the store long enough for the car to freeze, so they don't provide plug ins for the general customer parking lot.

But, the other issues related to electric cars are valid. In addition, most real strong supporters of electric cars are anti-coal and anti-nuclear energy. WELL FOLKS, where do you think electricity comes from. We don't have a raging river to damn up for hydro-electric generation, but that is an eco-evil as well.

If and when alternative fuel and electric cars are efficient, profitable and necessary the energy companies and car companies will have them for market. Until then sending billions of tax dollars to fringe groups and eco-leftists will not speed that process. Worse, taxing current energy and car producers out of existence will halt the progress not help it.

TAHL

HeyHey, you are probably right about the blackouts. I have them several times a year, but they usually last only a minute or two. I had one that lasted about 45 minutes a couple of years ago (a squirrel committed suicide on what I think is a transformer on one of our utility poles at the end of the alley). Anyone have a preference: hybrid vs. pure electric?

I would choose a high gas mileage gas engine now. I don't think the cost of hybrids and the unknown maintenance issues long-term are made up by the increased gas mileage. When the Volt (and similar cars) come out that equation dramatically changes, and I would jump at it. If electric cars are ever practical to drive around (inexpensive, good power, good range, etc) then I would go with it.

A.H. Lawyer,

Lithium polymers do a better job of delivering current in cold temperatures than a lead acid battery. And the electricity should be coming from WIND AND SOLAR (emphasis), not coal and nukes. I find it puzzling that you live in one of the world's hot spots of solar research and production and you fail to consider that electricity and hydrogen can be made from solar/wind. Its not even that they COULD be made from solar and wind, its that they MUST be made from solar and wind. We are running out of options and out of time.

But dear lord you last statement has so many conditions in it that it makes certain that electric cars will never happen if its left to the auto companies. An internal combustion gas or diesel engine and trans has thousands of parts which require tens of thousands of operations to manufacture and assemble. They break down. That's how they make their money. An electric motor has 3 parts that move. They could have made huge profit off the EV-1, but not as huge as the profits from a Hummer. So they sold that 120 mile per chartge battery that was in the GM EV-1 and sold it to Texaco. See the documentary, (Who Killed the Electric Car) buy it on Amazon.com $12

The notion that the car companies will somehow do something that helps humanity instead of profit is truly laughable. They have also fought clean air standards using many millions of dollars to buy the vote of our representatives over many decades. They have also fought, and won, to prohibit meaningful mileage standards for US cars. Europe has a much higher mileage standard than we do.

They will change when it is "necessary" as you say, but only a government mandate will make that happen.

Hey how about converting an old Yugo to a coal or wood burning steam engine powered vehicle. If times got really hard you could chop up some of doors or woodwork from your house.

^^ or from one of the many foreclosed properties in the area.

prime - I did not intend to imply that I believe care companies, energy companies, or ANY company will make changes, invest in R&D, or develope alterntatives to their product "for the good of humanity." Altrusims is a great personal goal, but it will never be an sufficient or practical motivation for comanies or people to invest their time, money, and take the risk on such future goals.

Its a nice thought that "for the good of humanity" is enough to motivate anyone to change for change sake, but its not. The difference between you and I is that you believe that when altruism is not enough - Government should force the change upon us. I however, believe the market - the evil desire for profit and success - does drive develpment and investment. I think altruism, charity, and "doing the right thing" are great personal human sentiments and goals, which we as American meet every day. corporations must and DO CONSIDER those issues as effecting profit, but is not the governments place to impose those factors onto citizens or businesses.

Without a firm government hand directing corporations, they will simply work harder to entrench the status quo if it makes them more money.

The ship of state has to have a rudder and a captain to direct greed or else it ends up serving the corporations and not the nation and its people.

Corporations run the country, and they shouldn't be. To the extent that corporations are allowed to speak bullship about free markets while they loot America's wallet and destroy human health and the planet, they should be jailed.

The other reason why a hydrogen and battery electric hybrid is a winner is that a pure battery electric would use huge amounts of power to heat the car in winter and cool it in summer. Hydrogen can do that efficiently.

Need a real hybrid that takes advantage of all available technology, Electric drive, all top surfaces photovoltaic, lithium batteries with large capacitors for top and go traffic, reactive braking to help recharge capacitors and batteries. Hydrogen powered generator for additional recharging and extended distance. Along with a cord to plug the thing in to recharge at home. Taking advantage of everything you can and not limiting it to one technology will maximized the vehicles potential.

err thats stop and go traffic.

Yes, panels on the roof would help a little. Insiders are saying that hydrogen storage in car sized tanks has exceeded a 200 mile range, and that they are closer to 300 miles per tank. Add in another 100 or 200 mile range from lithium batteries and you easily exceed the range of most of today's cars.

If the hydrogen and the battery power are from solar and wind it's a winning plan. Hydrogen from Bush's plan: natural gas, oil, coal, or methane are losing propositions that are more expensive than running on gasoline. Only solar and wind and wave generated electricity/hydrogen are curative of our current energy crisis.

We have elevated fossil fuels to a point where they run our government, only just surviving an administration that was of, by, and for the fossil fuel companies.

Maybe the new blood in the white house will make a difference, but we need to increase our solar cell and wind turbine output by 2000. Talk about using alternative energy to rescue the economy!! And imagine the mideast would no longer need our armies, navies, and air powewr, nor our blood.
The oil producing countries in the mideast are already considering massive solar panel installations to provide all of Europe's peak load power. Funny how the oil producing countries are willing to do this, but the U.S. government oil company wasn't.