Casino in Rossford

Portside=Casino=Perfect Fit, Heck of a missed opportunity.

To bad the city of Rossford had to run out of money on the amphitheater. That would have been a pretty cool venue, kind of like Pine Knob or whatever they call it now.

Carty wouldn't be Carty if he wasn't making a fool of himself. After all, Carty thinks Wood County has more violent crime than Toledo, and Carty thinks Wood County poaches Toledo jobs.

In July 2007, Thomas F. Pounds, President and Publisher of the Toledo Free Press, said :

Anyway, does downtown Toledo have enough vacant land for a large casino complex? It seems the likely location in this area for such a project would be at the intersection of I-75 and the turnpike, which has plenty of open, fertile, swamp-drained farmland.

March 8, 2009 WTOL story :

About the Rossford-Toledo JEDZ from a June 2006 Toledo Free Press story:

In the land-reuse category, maybe the Southwyck Mall owner has been holding out for a casino plan. That area may have enough land. It's not as easily accessible as the Rossford area, but Southwyck Mall has a nearby turnpike exit, and it's not too far from 475.

Of course, other forms of casino chat occurred in the past. A couple old topics:

From an April 1, 2003 Toledo Talk posting :

From a February 15, 2005 Toledo Talk posting :

April 25, 2004 - The Blade split over gambling

February 10, 2006 - What's going on with the steamplant?

July 22, 2006 - is it time for some serious 'casino' talk? (49 Comments)

October 4, 2006 - 'Religious leaders rip slots, casinos' (35 Comments)

ah that old logic. My neighbor has a giant money sucking hole; I need one too.

Rule #1: Don't do anything Detroit does.

Or stop thinking Toledo is mini-Detroit. Maybe then the city will stop being an armpit. Want to know how to get the city moving again, look to Texas and Oklahoma where cities are still experience growth - unlike the rest of the country. They learned after the 80s oil bust, diversify the economy. Eliminate taxes (Texas has no state/local income tax, Oklahoma no local). What has Toledo done? Continued to worship the ground of the auto industry and the union heads...and have gotten absolutely no where.

Casino gaming can work, if you do it the correct way.

One of the news stations said that Carty was showing the property of the old sports arena and part of the new marina district. I think the Casino would be great there.... The obstacle isn't where one will go, but getting the "Old" winded ohio voter's to pass it on the ballot.

The ONLY reason King Carty & J.R. Block want REGIONALISM.....IS TO RAPE THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES WITH TAXES.

Someone explain to me why Toledo or Ohio should have a casino? They have not been booming in Detroit. As world economies have faltered, so has the casino entertainment industry - including Indian casinos in the US. And we are not a destination like Vegas. Sorry, we're just not. Toledo is a great place to live, but it is fairly ho-hum in its tourism appeal.

The main argument in favor of approving casinos usually boils down to "everyone else is doing it." Michigan has them, concentrated in Detroit. Which state and city have nearly the worst unemployment in the country? Michigan and Detroit. I'm not saying gambling/casinos caused that problem, I'm saying it is not the solution either.

Why does everyone keep bringing up the ampitheatre for Brian McMahon?

Do people pay that much attention to Babe Ruth's strike out percentage?

Yes, the ampitheatre didnt come to fruition. That being said, been to Bass Pro yet? Same guy.

Plus, when the ampitheatre wasnt going to work out, Brian M was smart enough to walk away from it. Can we say the same with Carty and the ESM? Southwyck? any other of his pet project?

This wasn't meant to be a pro/con debate on the validity of casinos. More of a commentary on Toledo's (Carty's) handling of regional development news and specifically its direct attempts over the last 10 yrs to undermine Rossford attempts to make a big splash. Its the old, tired, mentality "if you have it and I don't....the only fair solution is for you to not have it."

I heard that the land in Rossford is already zoned for gaming, so if casinos get approved in Ohio they will be the first one around to have one ready to go. The paperwork alone for Toledo will take yonks. That said, does anyone know that if casino gambling is approved does that have any effect on slots? Because I know that Raceway was counting on slots getting the go ahead years back when they started to make over the track and the hotel on Benore was built for the expected crowds.

We learned today that the riverfront property Toledo is proposing is the freshly reclaimed site right off of Miami St......you know.......just outside of....ROSSFORD!! I can see it now....all the downside to a casino with none of the tax base.

The effect on slots would depend entirely on the language of the initiative. In all likelihood, because the promoters of the bill are those who would eventually own and run the casinos, they would prefer the bill limit gambling to their locations. That being said, I have not seen the proposed language of the new initiative, so I am just guessing.

Both the Rossford and Miami St sites are bad. If city leaders are interested in expanding entertainment options and bringing people downtown, then that's where it should be - like Greektown. People can't walk across the I-75 bridge.

Toledo wants to bring people downtown not Rossford. If Rossford gets the deal going that's exactly where it will go Rossford, end of story. Don't worry if Carty even gets the chance he'll screw it up some how

I have a close friend who lives on Selkirk, 3 houses from Miami, right across from that riverfront property. she pointed out the property to me Thursday night as we left for bingo at her church and we discussed the pros and cons thruout the night. The casino is a NIMBY as far as she's concerned, with not too many pros (road improvement was the only tangible benefit she might see) and many cons (lights, increased traffic/noise/pollution, possibly increased crime, possibly a drain on bingo dollars, probably blocking the sunset view from her porch). She and her neighbors are not real happy about the prospect of it going in right there but not sure they'll mount resistance. She bought her house only 2 years ago, so moving isn't really an option. She mentioned something about being bought out but that's not realistic, so she's pretty much stuck, whatever happens.

I've heard recently that Carty is planning on moving to Perrysburg in the near future. Wouldn't that be ironic after his calling that community a Peyton Place.

They should get a Casino in Rossford. People from Toledo love to go up to Detroit and waste their money up there so why not put the money back into Ohio rather than Michigan? There are gonna go regardless so why not keep it in Ohio? They should finish the amplitheater while their at it. I'm all for new jobs and extra income for the area.

There are a variety of opinions about whether Issue 3 will be good for Ohio. If you'd like to find out the truth about the claims made by both sides, visit www.whatdotheystandfor.org. They break down the facts, showing which claims you can believe and which are deceptive at best.

Doesn't the issue read that the Casino has to be in Toledo?

if you read all the facts on this page:

http://www.whatdotheystandfor.org./index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55:ohio-issues-3-casino-issue&catid=37:3mainitems

it really paints the casinos in a bad light...

SensorG - Yes - the parcels have already been determined and are in the writing of the isssue. They are the property on the Rossford side of the I75 bridge.

What the issue doesn't say is that they "have to" build a casino at all.

It looks like the casino has to be built in Toledo, so why do they say they are building it in Rossford?

Sensor, that property is at least partly in Toledo, its on the border of Rossford/Toledo.

The property is all Toledo.

"19,000 of those jobs will be temporary construction jobs." This is from the link UPSO put up (thank you by the way) I can say one thing, ALL construction jobs are temporary, but i bet those 19,000 construction people would love to build it and at least have a temporary income rather than the unemployment the're getting now. Just my .02.

I don't think it paints the casino's in a bad light at all, i think it kind of makes a good point FOR issue 3.

If I'm thinking of the same property, that was supposed to be low income housing but I think the developer either gave up or ran out of money. One thing I don't know is if Rossford acquired any of that land. I do know that it is considered Toledo by school district lines. I know this because one of the Rossford teachers lives in the tan house when you round the corner coming out of Rossford, and she had to pay tuition for her daughter to go to Rossford.

I know Rossford was going to put the casino out in crossroads if they got to build a casino.

tm2, yeah I guess it doesnt look really bad.. it was just this:

Other jobs will be eliminated s local bars, restaurants, hotels, and entertainment establishments close due to competition.

I hadn't thought about that before... but its a good point. The casino will hurt other businesses in the area (but I suspect help others too!)

The only thing that ever lasts in downtown Rossford are bars. We have 3 that have been around since I was a young'n, and I don't see those going anywhere, I could be wrong but they have been around 31 years so far.

SensorG, your question intrigued me. I went to one of the source documents:

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/upload/ballotboard/2009/3-text.pdf

... and noted that the language said:

Authorize a single casino at a predetermined location, as designated in the Amendment, in each of the cities of:

... and then it lists Cincinnati, Cleveland, Columbus and Toledo, by name. For Toledo, the entry said:

The casino in Toledo, Ohio will be located on approximately 44.24 acres
currently known as 1968 Miami Street, located on the south side of the
Maumee River and on the north side of Miami Street with Interstate Highway
75 running north to south thru the real property.

As I suspected, the site is only minimally "in Toledo". It's right on the border with Wood County (i.e. the desirable county, not foul and stinky Lucas County), and of course it's right down the road from Rossford (i.e. the desirable town, not foul and stinky Toledo).

That means all the right people can just travel to the casino from I75, and there will be minimal contact with the foul, nasty, stinky, horrible denizens of Toledo.

I'm still voting NO on the issue since there's no way I'd vote to authorize the creation of a CARTEL.

The land for the proposed casino located on the west side of I-75 at the Miami Street exit is Toledo not Rossford.

Oct 14, 2009 - Toledo Blade - EPA testing leakage at Toledo casino site - Brownish-red substance entering Maumee River

Yummy. Question: How long has this been leaking? They're just now finding out about this?

Why only those four cities? Why not make casino gambling available to every square inch of Ohio? If Findlay or Sandusky wants to build a casino, let them. Shopping mall development is not restricted to only a few cities or counties.

Who knows how long it's been leaking. I do know LOF used to dump glass there. We are talking back in the 30's and 40's. My grandpa told me that used to be a huge hole. My grandma told me the same thing. She was born and raised in Rossford,so was my great-grandma. Grandpa used to pass it everyday coming to see my grandma, when he grew up and lived on Lagrange St.

And Molsonator's observation is apt: The language said that these sites are "authorized" for casinos. That doesn't mean that the "Rossledo" casino WILL get built. As Molsie said, nothing in the bill says it WILL be built.

This distinction will be utterly lost on Toledoans, who will vote for Issue 3 and then get told later "the budget doesn't support a Toledo casino at this time".

Rossledo, good one.

Yes, no guarantee that Toledo or northwest Ohio will get a casino if Issue 3 passes. Next year, someone will create an excuse like contaminated land as a reason for no casino in Toledo. I guess something similar could be said for the other cities. But I'm thinking that for this November, the 3 Cs need Toledo voters to support Issue 3, so Cle, Col, and Cin will get a casino.

Bingo! jr.

So when we get our casino, and these out-of-state casino-owners make a boat load of cash of of us, they generously donate the money back in to the local economy, right? Casino operators are good and honest people, aren't they? They wouldn't just take all the money that can from us and run, would they?

I can't wait to vote against this thing.

From the increased crime, to no guarantees that it will be built, to the low tax rate claimed by the state, this thing stinks as bad as whatever the hell that leachate is coming from the proposed site.

Doesn't really matter to me. Yes, I would like to have a casino close, but if it fails again, I'll just keep going up to Detroit or out to Vegas the 2 times a year or more that I currently do.

"I'll just keep going up to Detroit"...yeah, the Detroit radio stations are starting to run blurbs of anxiety about Toledo getting a casino. They are claiming $100-200M per yr lost if Ohio gets it.

I can believe it. I know quite a few people that go up to the casinos in Detroit. My grandma,mom,great-aunt, and a bunch of people take a bus up every month or so. Usually there are 30 or so people on the bus. I like driving up that way I don't feel like I'm being rushed.

We'd be better off with an amusement park.

An increase in crime has to be the absolute weakest reason to vote against Issue 3. Anywhere you have more people, you will have more crime. Using that logic, Levis Commons should have never been built. I bet there is more crime at Levis Commons now than when it was a corn field.

I'm voting no. Casinos and legalised gamblings cause many problems. We are looking at the short term revenue gain...

If you want a good example of places where casinos do not generate "instant success" check out Detroit.

I am also voting against it. I am dead set against the idea of anyone wasting their money on games of chance even though it's their prerogative to do so. I had a co-worker who told me that going to the casino was her form of entertainment. If she wanted to spend $300 bucks at the table, that was her business. Personally, I feel if you want to be entertained, you should go play a board game. I'd rather spend my few, hard-earned dollars in a place where I feel I got something to show for it. I fundamentally can't endorse gambling even though I know people are ultimately responsible for the consequences of their gambling.

Each their own I guess. I like going to the casino's but I know when to quit. If I'm losing I stop. I think the most money I have went through that was my own was $100. Other wise I'm playing on the casino's money. The most I have walked out with is about $1500 but that was playing Hold em. If I'm losing there I'll go play the slots for a bit

Few things I have strong opinions about but casinos is one of them. I really hope it doesn't get built.

I won't close my mine to it as a possibility but from everything I've read and heard and seen over the years it's never good.

One thing I was wondering, if issue 3 fails, how long will it be before it's back on the ballot? It always seems like they keep trying and it irritates me that the casino backers don't listen to what the majority are saying. If people keep voting against it, they should drop it.

"I am dead set against the idea of anyone wasting their money on games of chance even though it's their prerogative to do so."

What about bingo gambling at church? That's legal in Ohio. At least with the Catholics.

What about the state lottery? In the early 1970s, Ohioans voted to change the state constitution to allow statewide gambling called the lottery. We can buy lottery tickets all over the place, including from vending machines. Those instant lottery games are like playing slots. And some players get addicted and encounter financial problems. Minors play the lottery.

According to the Yes on Issue 3 Web site:

So take a chance on education. It's not gambling. It's not entertainment. It's an investment in our future, man. It's providing hope for some little rugrat. And we've already been doing it for 35 years.

I assume that if Issue 3 passes, then our property taxes will drop, since the schools will be getting money from the casinos.

Past casino gambling-related Toledo Talk threads :

• April 1, 2003 - Casino gambling in Toledo?
• April 25, 2004 - The Blade split over gambling
• February 15, 2005 - Windsor casino expansion
• February 10, 2006 - What's going on with the steamplant?
• June 4, 2006 - Devious Gambling Initiative
• July 22, 2006 - is it time for some serious 'casino' talk?
• August 2, 2006 - Ohio Learn and Earn wants to legalize slot machines
• August 8, 2006 - Playing the Anti-Gambling Card
• October 4, 2006 - 'Religious leaders rip slots, casinos'
• November 3, 2006 - 45% Take From Casinos?
• June 24, 2008 - Voice of the people???
• March 8, 2009 - Strickland changing position on gambling?

Forgot to mention that Ohio has KENO gambling now too. Ohio has over 1100 KENO retailers. Drawings occur every four minutes beginning at 11:04 a.m. and ending at 1:44 a.m.

And next year, we'll probably get a chance to vote for video slots at horse-racing tracks.

If the schools get so much money from gambling, where is it?

From the ODE FY 2008 Lottery Report for School Districts

TOLEDO CITY S.D. LUCAS $14,974,996.71 10.15% of total funding

ROSSFORD EX VIL S.D WOOD $116,908.80 6.96% of total funding

PERRYSBURG EX VIL S.D WOOD $618,395.03 9.22% of total funding

Sorry forgot the link

http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages/ODE/ODEDetail.aspx?Page=3&TopicRelationID=990&Content=72721

Many states say the money from gambling is for their schools.....an example of how it is NOT...look at Detroit.

How is the school's not using the money given to them by the state appropriately the states fault??

I gave you proof of how much each school in the area received in 2008 for Ohio.

Toledo received almost 15 million dollars, what the hell did they spend it on?

Only $15 million to pay for and fund all of our schools...that's not much when you think about something so simple as repairs and upkeep for ALL the school buildings in the state.

No, if I'm reading it correctly, Toledo received 15 million for just Toledo. That is true, because the total for all districts in Ohio was
$551,908,697.97

Again, even for Toledo $15 million isnt much when you think of all that is involved in running and keeping schools open.

I understand that, but your argument was saying gambling doesn't benefit schools, I proved that false, because Toledo Schools received 15,000,000 they wouldn't have had with out that funding.

I am saying, schools do not recieve as much money as the gambling councils would like you to think. Don't get glitter in your eyes "for the schools!" by the casino companies.

The companies make huge profits, and often through loopsholes never pay a school a penny. That is why the last gambling ballot failed...there were found and proven to exist loopholes in the laws that would allow for casinos to pay 0 taxes and 0 money to schools.

A company wants to come to Ohio and build a business and yet most of you are against it. I'd like to hear legitimate reasons why you're anti-business.

I'm all for creating new businesses and I'm not even anti-gabling (I do more than a bit), but changing the Ohio Constitution to allow for single company monopoly in only 4 cities is just bad.

I'm not saying it would make the schools, but it would help.

Levy a fixed tax of 33% of gross casino revenue received by each casino operator
of the four casino facilities.

Distribute the casino tax as follows:

• 51% among all 88 counties in proportion to such counties’
respective populations. Half of each county’s distribution will go to
its largest city if that city’s population is above 80,000.

• 34% among all public school districts
• 5% among all host cities
• 3% to the Ohio casino control commission
• 3% to the Ohio state racing commission fund
• 2% to a state law enforcement training fund
• 2% to a state problem gambling and addictions fund

I am voting yes.Although I am not a big fan of gambling,I would rather see at least some of the revenue from gambling stay here in Ohio.People are going to gamble no matter what the outcome of the vote will be.If it fails they will simply continue to go to other states that have casinos.We already have several forms of legalized gambling in Ohio, so why not have casinos also? For those of you that don't like casinos there is a simple solution.Don't support them and stay away from the gambling casinos if you are against them.If other people want to spend their money on that form of entertainment,let them.What I don't like is the do gooders telling other people what to do with their money.Live and let live.

"changing the Ohio Constitution to allow for single company monopoly in only 4 cities is just bad."

Now this is a reason I can accept. I do agree that it should be for the whole state and not select cities But like some say with the ccw law for example, sometimes you have to take baby steps to totally get what you want.

Anti-business? Hardly. Anti-this particular business? Oh, yeah.

But you asked for legitimate reasons, and here they are:
* Crime goes up when casinos come to town. This creates a greater strain on communities in the form of more police protection needed, more prosecutors, etc., not to mention increased traffic.
* Gambling is not just "any business," but one that can become an addiction, leading to job loss, home loss and broken families. Obviously, many people don't have a problem with gambling -- but many, many people do. Ohio has voted against this again and again. It's an issue of community standards.
* There is no guarantee that any money would be spent here to build a casino, anyway. The site is a brownfield. There are other sites in town available (think any abandoned big-box store on any major thoroughfare -- there's one in every part of town), but the legislation is written so that it MUST be this one site on the border of Rossford. Where they have "just discovered" some nasty leachate. Where the casino company would have to spend beaucoup bucks before they could even begin to build.
* The tax rate, as written into this legislation, is much lower than what other states receive from casinos. Remember, this is a tax on the profits, which we all know can be quite high, although...
* Casinos seem to have seen their peak. Casino profits are down all over the country. So, we're potentially looking at another empty big box -- this time, on our riverfront. If it were to get built at all.

No, no, no no no on Issue 3.

Actually Michigan casinos only pay 21.2% and tribal casino's in Michigan only pay 3%

Indian pays the highest at 38%

According to data collected by the FBI from nearly 17,000 law enforcement agencies nationwide, the crime rate in Las Vegas for 2007, which includes any crimes committed by the more than 51.59 million annual visitors that year, was lower than many other major American tourist destinations and cities, including Miami; Myrtle Beach, S.C.; Orlando, Fla.; Daytona Beach, Fla., and Nashville, Tenn. (Federal Bureau of Investigation. Crime in the United States 2007. Uniform Crime Reporting Program. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/)

Based on a detailed analysis of Detroit crime statistics, this report finds that the crime rate in downtown Detroit is significantly lower than the average crime rate for the U.S., State of Michigan and Michigan metropolitan areas. Further, compared to similar downtown areas, Detroit ranked at or below the mid-point in five out of seven serious crime categories and did not lead any of the categories. If major event visitors are included in its daily population, downtown Detroit’s crime rate drops to a miniscule 12 crimes per 100,000 in population.” (Metzger, Kurt and Booza, Jason. Reality vs. Perceptions: An Analysis of Crime and Safety in Downtown Detroit. The Michigan Metropolitan Information Center, Wayne State University, for the Detroit Metro Convention & Visitors Bureau. p. 1. June 2005.)

A March 2000 report by the Public Sector Gaming Study Commission, a non-partisan organization of state legislators who chair or are members of legislative committees responsible for gaming in their states, said: “The majority of the information collected during the past decade indicates there is no link between gambling, particularly casino-style gambling, and crime.

Anniecski said,"No, no, no no no on Issue 3."

You are only allowed to have one no vote unless you know somebody that works for Acorn! LOL!

I will save alot of gas money going to Detroit to gamble.

One vote for YES

No on 3. I have no problem with gambling in Ohio. I have a problem with a Constitutional amendment that favors a few deep pockets. The state should be open to all the gambling competitors in the industry.

Anniecski...hmm lets review your points.

>>* Crime goes up when casinos come to town. This creates a greater strain on communities in the form of more police protection needed, more prosecutors, etc., not to mention increased traffic.<<

Proof? I have 3 casinos with in a 10 mile radius of my house. One of them, about 4 miles away, offers a gaming floor larger than most Vegas casinos. Did crime go up? Not at all. Have they had to boost police protection? No major new hiring at all. I can still leave my doors unlocked and not worry. Increased traffic? God forbid you have more people coming to your area to spend money. Pull your head out of the sand and start looking at communities that are trying to attract people. No a casino is not an cure all...it will provide at least a little boost. Now if the City of Toledo and the rest of the Metro are willing to go further, I suggest that look at cities like Austin, TX and Oklahoma City - specific OKC's MAPS, MAPS for Kids, and the new MAPS3 projects. Of course I don't see area people willing to approve a 1 cent sales tax to fund projects to help turn the city around...Anyway. Yes infrastructure would need to be improved to handle increase traffic - what a problem to have.

http://www.okc.gov/maps/index.html
http://www.okc.gov/maps3/

>>* Gambling is not just "any business," but one that can become an addiction, leading to job loss, home loss and broken families. Obviously, many people don't have a problem with gambling -- but many, many people do. Ohio has voted against this again and again. It's an issue of community standards. <<

I think it becomes an issue of retaining lost revenue for the state. If you are so against gambling, why aren't you out there asking for the immediate closure of the Ohio Lottery, race tracks, and blocking off every highway leading out of the state to another state with casinos? Yes there are negative side effects to gambling. I'm sure we can find negative side effects to many revenue opportunities. That Jeep Plant sure isn't 100% green, I say we shut it down cause little Billy may get cancer or lung problems. /sarcasm. Sure you can argue it is a community standards thing...but I also live in the heart of the bible thumbing belt and they get by okay down here.

>>* There is no guarantee that any money would be spent here to build a casino, anyway. The site is a brownfield. There are other sites in town available (think any abandoned big-box store on any major thoroughfare -- there's one in every part of town), but the legislation is written so that it MUST be this one site on the border of Rossford. Where they have "just discovered" some nasty leachate. Where the casino company would have to spend beaucoup bucks before they could even begin to build. <<

God forbid we actually clean up a site destroyed by the beloved industry Toledo has been screwed over by time and time again. The land is going to need to be cleaned up at one point. I would imagine we would see additional funding come in to help clean the land up - where there is a will there is a way. Personally I would rather see something like this in Downtown Toledo along the river front or at the crossroads area. Hopefully after this passes, they'll be able to keep amending it down the road to remove some of these stupid restrictions. As far as blighted and abandoned big box stores in the rest of the city - eh, that's off topic for this so I'll let it go.

>>* The tax rate, as written into this legislation, is much lower than what other states receive from casinos. Remember, this is a tax on the profits, which we all know can be quite high, although...<<

Anti-Business taxes in Ohio, Lucas County, and Toledo need to get fixed. There is a reason so many business are locating in the South, Texas, Oklahoma, and Southwest. Favorable tax laws and the ability for them to do business without getting raped by the government. Not to mention Right to Work laws in place to keep unions in check from getting too out of control.

>>* Casinos seem to have seen their peak. Casino profits are down all over the country. So, we're potentially looking at another empty big box -- this time, on our riverfront. If it were to get built at all.<<

Don't be stupid. Casino profits are down in Vegas. Casinos in other states like Oklahoma are at record levels. People aren't wanting to travel across country, especially with air fare so high. However, you put a casino in an area that is only a couple hour drive from millions of people - it'll be filled with people. Not to mention the additional benefits you'll get from it - sporting and other entertainment acts. Yes the gambling is there, but hey...you might get some nice shows to come to town that would otherwise avoid Toledo like the plague.

Holland wrote:

>>>No on 3. I have no problem with gambling in Ohio. I have a problem with a Constitutional amendment that favors a few deep pockets. The state should be open to all the gambling competitors in the industry.<<<

I agree with you, but its almost like maybe it is just time to get the casinos in the state and then hopefully in 3-5 years...get another vote to remove the stupid restrictions.

Justasooner........I love you. Best post EVER on TT.

Can't agree with one word Justasooner said.

Justa --

There are just as many reports out there saying crime goes up as there are reports saying crime goes down. Google it.

At a time when the Toledo economy is in the dump, the last thing we need is another way for folks to gamble away the rent money. Visit the casinos just outside Chicago in Indiana and you'll see how seedy it can get.

Again, did you not read the part about there being NO GUARANTEE that a casino would be built here? Penn National is in the gaming business, not the brownfield clean up business. Just check out their casino in Kansas City.

Oh, wait. You can't. There isn't one.

Why would you think they'd write the legislation so that it demands this one particular parcel -- but then will be willing to rewrite it later to mean a different parcel?

Right to Work laws in place to keep unions in check from getting too out of control
You mean, Right To Work Laws in place to help management take huge salaries and bonuses while trampling the rights and wages of workers. A system, by the way, that has led to the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer, and the middle class becoming extinct.

And as for nice shows coming to town -- where are you, anyway? The Lucas County Arena, the Valentine Theater, the Stranahan, Savage Hall -- we have plenty of entertainment venues. Venues that don't feature gambling.

Who's fault is it if someone blows their rent money at the casino?? It isn't the casino's fault. It's the idiot who wanted to blow the money at the casino instead of using it for what it's supposed to be used for.

You need to stop worrying about other people and what they do with "THEIR" money. That is the problem with today's society, no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions, they just wanna blame it on something, or someone else.

More than likely that substance coming from the property, is slag that was used in the glass making process at L.O.F.

lfrost25 stated;"You need to stop worrying about other people and what they do with "THEIR" money. That is the problem with today's society, no one wants to take responsibility for their own actions, they just wanna blame it on something, or someone else."

I totally agree with that statement.People need to stop telling other people how to lead their lives.There are several choices out there on how to spend your entertainment dollar and the last thing I want is some do gooder telling me what I should be doing with my free time and my money.I am not necessarly fond of gambling,but it is none of my business if my neighbor chooses to do so.There are things that people do that I do not like to do,but I will not try to keep them from what they like to do for entertainment.I spend a lot of money going to hockey games.I have season tickets for the Walleye.I have spent more money doing that than what I have ever spent on a casino.I say ,live and let live.Yes on 3!

"People need to stop telling other people how to lead their lives."

True that. I got something I want to put in by the docks while we are at it.

All joking aside, this issue if passed, puts protections for a single group of casino operators into our constitution. The document which establishes our rights as Ohioans would then give special privileges to a single group of out-of-state crooks. It's the ultimate "no-bid contact" written by the Penn National Casinos for Penn National Casinos.

If we are going to sell our selves to the casinos, shouldn't we get a fair market price?

Im all for the casino, VOTE YES

I'm all for competition amongst casino principals, VOTE NO

Renegade18 said : "Im all for the casino ..."

But why restrict the idea to only four cities? Make it available everywhere all at once.

And is the Toledo casino plan restricted only to the single property mentioned thus far, which is land located between Rossford and I-75? In other words, if it's determined that development is prohibited on that contaminated land, can a casino be built elsewhere in Toledo, or is Toledo SOL?

GuestZero showed that the language for the gambling issue says:

So the issue authorizes that a casino can be built on only one possible site in Toledo. And even thought the city of Toledo contains 88 square miles of land, no other site options exist except the one that is leaking an unknown substance into the Maumee River. Not much of a choice here. Pretty restrictive. Who picked that site? And who would be shocked if some agency in a year or two says no dice to building on that land?

JR.

If not built on that land, it could always be voted on next year to switch sites, But the land picked is one thing that is keeping me from making up my mind. The other is that only 4 cities are aloud to have casinos. I believe it should go in the old Portside, then knock down the old steam plant for parking. This way 5/3 field, and the new arena would be only a few blocks away.

"If not built on that land, it could always be voted on next year to switch sites."

Voted on by whom? Toledoans or the entire state? And how would the new Toledo casino site location issue get on next year's ballot? A signature-gathering process? So it's possible that a new Toledo casino site location is approved or denied by a ballot issue that could be voted upon by people living elsewhere in Ohio.

If casino gambling is legalized in Ohio, Toledo or any town should be allowed to pick any location the town wants for its casino. Toledo should be able to say the hell with it, let's build a casino on the old Southwyck mall property or on the marina district land without the need of another ballot issue.

I think I've heard that any city can have a casino, but those other towns, I think, would have to get the issue on the ballot. I assume that's a statewide ballot issue. If that's how it would work for other towns, why would voters in Toledo, Cleveland, and Columbus vote for a casino in Lima or Sandusky?

Same for Toledo. Let's say in a year or two, the current Toledo casino site is ruled ineligible. Then somehow a new Toledo site location placed on the ballot. I'm assuming it would be a statewide issue. If it is, then why would voters in Cleveland and Columbus vote for a competing casino in Toledo?

Also, since there is no time line in which it must be built, it would likely get tied up in legal maneuvering and never even started.

I'm voting YES

Me too, I don't understand all the bruhaha about people getting rich off of this. People get rich off of business everyday. That's why they open them. We need the jobs AND the money that will be distributed out. It's already being spent, lets spend it here and "keep it local".

It's not local. It's an out-of-state company that will be shipping out dollars by the truckload.

I'm voting no mainly because the site sucks, it should be Southwyck, the infrastructure and the support businesses are already there and need the help, AND I'm not sure that changing the constitution to benefit outside interests is a good thing. Yeah, we have a lot of out-of-state businesses here, but we didn't have to have an ammendment for Chrysler or any of the other big corps, so why these guys? Just authorize casinos in general and let them take their chances just like any other legitimate business.

It's not local? The owners may spend their earnings outof state, but the revenue is local. You have no arguement when it comes to that. Period. CAT, income tax, withholding, sales, use - ALL local.

no to 3
yes to casinos statewide if that comes up for vote

the more I think about it, the more I hate that this bill is created for one out of state business

Yes to three!

It's not local, Ryan, in the sense that it's not a locally-owned business -- nor can it EVER be. The constitutional amendment provides for a single entity, Penn National, to be the only operator.

Vote No on 3.

I know it is not locally owned, but all the monies I referenced will be.

WalMart, chain restaurants and many many more establishments are not locally owned and people sure patronize those. At least the casino will be generating major dollars into Ohio.

Yes oh yes on Issue 3!

But I don't think the state constitution needs amended by the voters to permit the construction of a new Wal-Mart, Starbucks, Kroger, Sonic, Barnes & Noble, etc. Larry Dillin didn't need the state constitution changed via a statewide vote to get final approval to build Levis Commons in a Wood County soybean field. Comparing other so-called "normal" business developments with this casino plan is a bad comparison. Find an apples-to-apples comparison.

And you have no problem with this state constitution change dictating that such glorious economic developments are restricted to only four properties. If four casinos will miraculously improve Ohio's economy, then why not build more? Why not make casino development open to anywhere in the state? Those chain stores you mentioned are not restricted to only four Ohio cities.

Actually, for this casino issue, it's not four Ohio cities. It's four specific Ohio properties that happen to reside in the four biggest cities. The cities cannot build a casino wherever they think is best. So what about location, location, location for maximizing business success? This does not exist in Issue 3.

I don't think the Toledo site is the absolute best location, especially if the plan calls for no hotel. If this is truly about economic development, then the best location should be chosen, and that might mean building a casino out by the intersection of I-75 and the turnpike in Wood County. Because from what I understand, the casino gamblers go to a casino, and that's it. They're not interested in seeing or doing something else. So again, the best possible locations must be chosen to maximize this economic development plan. That seems like common business sense, and that's lacking in Issue 3.

Legalize casino gambling everywhere in Ohio and not just on four properties.

No way ever.

Strongly oppose. Beside the whole consitutional aspect of this little "package" & the barrier to competition, anything that this knucklehead Dan Gilbert is behind smells like dead carp on the Maumee...think Quicken Loans & Rock Financial.

Jamie Farr is FOR ISSUE 3? What a bunch of crap! If he's so proud of Toledo....so proud of Ohio....why does he live in California 99.9% of the time? Why should we care what he thinks of Issue 3? Don't you just love the slimy tactics as the election draws to a close. Then there's that elderly, former treasurer telling us all about how Ohio is going to get all this tax money. Let's see....Joe Problem Gambler bets all his family's savings, the kids' college money and all of THAT is going to stay in Ohio? I can see more money LEAVING Ohio than staying. Who is responsible for restructuring the I-75 ramps to accommodate the Miami St. location? Is Penn paying the millions for that? This is all just a bad idea....vote NO on ISSUE 3!

My biggest problem is that the issue is a constitutional amendment.

If it were a constitutional amendment legalizing casino gambling statewide in Ohio, I'd be totally fine with it.

I'm torn on the issue as it stands now.

Great arguments against it, but No Way this amendment doesn't pass.

If it passes and they don't build the casino over at the toxic waste land locked site over in Rossford, Northwest Ohio WILL NEVER have a casino.

How many of you naysayers that state they won't vote for issue three because the money will go out of state are driving automobiles that are manufactured by foreign owned businesses?Also, the money spent on casinos is already going out of state when people drive or take buses to other states to gamble.At least some of the money will stay here in Ohio.Yes on three!

No on three. I would never vote in favor of any type of gambling.

The amendment does NOT name Penn Central or the owner of the Cavs as the only casino operators permitted to build in Ohio.

Penn Central and the Cav's owner have been chosen, or agreed to invest under the parameters of the Amendment, but designation of an operator does not appear in the Amendment.

TAHL

Well, it is sort of sad and pathetic that our economy is so bad that it's making it seem as if the casino industry is a life raft of sorts that will, despite all its problems, at the very least create some jobs and bring some additional traffic through our area. I know too many people who are unemployed and underemployed to be comfortable flat-out saying, oh no, we don't want those jobs.

Sad and pathetic, but it is sort of our own damn fault because nobody in-state has bothered to do much to attract alternative industries to come to Ohio -- or at least they haven't done enough of it. If you look at the list of backers, there are tons of elected officials and community leaders listed who I feel are at least partially on board because they themselves failed to be pro-active in drawing other businesses to Ohio and maybe they feel their endorsement gets them off the hook for that. How convenient.

So, yeah, I support Issue 3 despite all its problems and the fact that I feel some of the details have been poorly put together -- Rossford? Really? And does it have to be a Constitutional Amendment, really? -- and I feel bitter and resentful about it, if you can't tell. But I don't think Ohioans at this point are in a position to get all uppity about the evils of gambling or about where the majority of profits will go. We NEED more industry in Ohio. We NEED jobs. And I feel we have allowed ourselves to be put in a position where we're chumps and we have to take whatever somebody'll send us. It's our own fault.

It's weird to agree with many of the objections to a ballot issue but still feel like it's necessary to support it. Weird, weird, weird.

I'm with you jmleong. I voted yes, despite the problems with the admendment. We need the business, no matter what it is.

I believe that is called selling your soul in some circles.

Or not believing the hype in others.

I cracked up at the ad that was upset they only had tax rate of 33%. It's a company.

33% sucks for this sort of thing. Now that it looks like it passed, Toledo will NEVER get a casino, we just put it into the constitution. If Penn wants to build one they can, but with a bunch of failing casinos 45 minutes north of there and a depressed economy in North West Ohio and a toxic site, Penn will never build it and no one else will ever be allowed too either because we gave Penn a monopoly.

Sure glad Toledo can give the big C's a boost at our expense.

Did this pass?

yes it did

Now that gambling is legal, anyone want to bet that Toledo does NOT get a casino?

Ohio will, that was my mission.

Completed.

One thing that seemed fishy to me is why do they limit it to just 1? Doesn't this automatically create a monopoly?

I voted against it. I'm all for new jobs and such but not at the expensive of a casino. Will see how it rolls out I truly hope I'm wrong and that all the things they promised come true.

I hope things pan out for the best :/

Some comments by others:

"State Sen. Teresa Fedor (D., Toledo) said [it] will put Toledo on the map, and it will be part of the city's culture and a symbol of Toledo’s pride."

"Toledo could become truly one of the great cities of the world, Mayor Carty Finkbeiner remarked."

"But just as important are the economic numbers we are confident will come. Companies that over the years have stayed away from the Toledo area should now find investment and job opportunities."

"... it will carry northwest Ohio into a future of new opportunity."

Sounds promising.

The above comments, however, were related to the new I-280, bypass Toledo bridge, which opened in the summer of 2007. I'm sure the bridge is attracting new businesses to the area. And one to four new casinos will mean economic boom times for the area and the state as well. After all, public officials and the media wouldn't mislead us.

Difference being one can use the I-280 without stopping in Toledo. The casino will draw people to come, stop, play, stay, eat, shop, etc. IF we get one.

Just like the solar energy boom will create hundreds of new jobs. I'm NOT a naysayer...just a pragmatist...fill 'er up.

2009 election results by county on the state issues - interactive map

Below are the county results for Issue 3. The green indicates the counties where the casino issue passed.

Interesting that the issued lost in Franklin County and in its neighboring counties. But the urban areas located on or near the borders to states with gambling supported the issue.

If Toledo was not included with the 3 Cs for a shot at getting a casino, would Toledo voters have supported the issue?

"JR"I attempted to try fishing a month or so ago under the I-75 bridge on the south side of the river and there is a "VERY PREVELANT" oil slick coming down river under the bridge moving out to Lake Erie! I had no idea this was reported before but I did send a msg to the fish and game commission about it

I did not stay long,seems "nothing" was biting there !

Apparently, the brownish-red ooze seeping into the Maumee River from the Toledo casino land is hunky-dory

Oct 30, 2009 - Toledo Blade - Casino site is OK, state says - "Leakage from old industrial site is no bar to casino"

Maybe the casino can serve the leakage in the bar.

Blacjac: Have you tried fishing there before? Any luck there? If so, how long ago?

It's good to see some of the responses in this forum about the Rossford (har!) casino.

I read the PDF from the LCBOE site (which I advise people to COPY and keep for future reference):

http://www.lucascountyoh.gov/documents/Board%20of%20Elections/Current%20Election/2009%20NOV%20Issues.pdf

... to determine what the heck all these ads were talking about. And from what I could see, all that was done was to create a gambling cartel in Ohio. So, NO, gambling has NOT been legalized in this state. If it was, anyone could try to open their own gambling establishment.

On top of that, the amendment only "authorized" 4 casinos. So there's nothing in it that says that even one of these casinos has to be built.

One line in the amendment specifies that:

"Require each initial licensed casino operator to pay a single $50,000,000 fee to be used for state job training purposes and make a minimum initial investment of $250,000,000 in its facility."

So, what does this mean? The news reported that for 4 casinos, there were 2 companies. That might mean 2 "operators". It might also mean 4 operators. At this time, I don't know.

Does that mean the state will receive $100M or $200M free and clear? Or are such payments linked to an actual attempt to construct each casino?

I'm very skeptical that the Rossford casino will be built, since it's mind-boggling to think that anyone would be insane enough to blow 250 million dollars on ANYTHING in the Toledo area. The new Arena cost $80M to $110M (strangely, this amount is uncertain per Blade reporting), and that was only done due to the moron taxpayers being put on the hook. So it strains credulity to imagine that some private entity will put $250M (minimum, per the amendment) into anything in the Toledo area.

I don't have enough information to make a prediction at this time. But I suspect the Rossford casino just won't be built.

Can anyone help assist in the investigation of clarifying the amendment wording?

I still don't know why it is being called the ROSSFORD Casino. On my ballot it said nothing about Rossford being one of the cities, just Toledo,Cincy, Cleveland, and Columbus. Maybe I just got a messed up ballot or something.

Lfrost, I call it the ROSSFORD casino as a pun to show that it was never intended to be IN Toledo. It's right on the border of Toledo ... in fact, right on the border of Lucas County ... as if we're "icky" or something.

A good site for the casino IN Toledo would have been Southwyck. Bar none -- that would have been it. OR, Northtowne (admittedly, also on the border of Toledo, Lucas, even Ohio). Instead, it was put as close to Rossford as possible. It even covers up a site with a clear pollution problem (have you ever USED toilet-bowl cleaner?). That tells me that Toledo is just being USED again, as normal.

I still need help determining what the amendment language really means. Largely, I need a state-level politician to go ON RECORD and assert that clause 4 of the amendment means that the "operator" MUST build the "Rossford" casino. OR, will the two companies forming the "operators" just pay $200M to the state and then just build 2 casinos in the desirable parts of the state, namely Columbus and Cincinnati.

$50m a site not $200m total. If they build three - $150m. There is no financial commitment to Toledo.

The proposed site for the casino is in Toledo not Rossford. I think the old glass factory is in Rossford, but the reclaimed land next to it is called Toledo. You can use GZ's term and call it "Rossledo."

The company governing the "Rossledo" Casino is Penn National Gaming, who also own Toledo's Raceway Park. They've promised to build the casino in 2 to 2-1/2 years:

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091105/NEWS16/911050350

"We will have Hollywood Casino Toledo in two to two-and-a-half years," said Tim Wilmott, the Pennsylvania-based corporation's president.

A friend of mine just reminded me that RP has slot machines. What will PNG do with those when it also has a $250M+ casino 10 miles away?

Raceway park does not have slot machines...yet. But that was apart of the whole plan years ago when they built that Marriott on Benore in preparation of slots being allowed. People will still go to RP when the casino is open and slots will just be an extra.

I personally like "Rossledo" better. JR, The old LOF plant is in Rossford, or at least most of it is. I know for a fact they used to bury glass and slag from the glass making process on the casino site. Many years ago it used to be just an open hole. The property is supposed to change hands here soon, since issue 3 passed.

I do have to disagree that the best site would have been Southwyck, or Northtown. I think the best site would have been the old Portside, then demolish the steam plant for parking. That way you have the new arena, and the 5/3 ballpark all within walking distance of each other. If Rossford really wanted it, it would have been put out in Crossroads, where there is ample room to build a casino with a hotel, and room for future restaurants.

I like it across the water from downtown. The casino will have traffic 24/7 where as 5/3 and the arena do not always have things going on. Parking would be out of control if it was put up at Portside. Heck, Portside may even fill up again once we get all this foot traffic coming downtown. Call me naïve but I am visualizing it right now.

Ryan,

What I was saying is that people at either 5/3 or the arena, could then walk to the casino.

As far as parking goes, that's why I said demolish the old steam plant, and put parking there for just the casino. I doubt that steam plant will ever be used for anything, there is so much asbestos, lead, and who knows what else, that it wouldn't be economical to clean it up and use it for anything else. I know we've paid a asbestos removal company almost $15,000 to remove it from a house we were remodeling, I hate to see the bill for a building as big as the steam plant. Usually it will cost a minimum of 2,000 or 3,000.

Ryan and Lfrost ... why on earth do you think anyone's going to walk about 2 miles between the Rossledo site and the Arena area? Especially since there's no real walking path between the two?

I'm not talking now. Pretty much only downtown Rossford residents, and such will try to walk. I was saying if they put it at the old Portside. It's within walking distance of both the arena, and the ballpark.

ifrost - the casino that will never be build is on the other side of the river.

I know this, I live like 2 minutes from the site. I swear some people don't read. From my comment earlier:

"I do have to disagree that the best site would have been Southwyck, or Northtown. I think the best site would have been the old Portside, then demolish the steam plant for parking."

"It's within walking distance of both the arena, and the ballpark."

What does that have to do with those mornings, afternoons, and evenings when nothing is going on at the arena and ballpark? Just guessing, but I bet some regular casino gamblers don't give a damn about minor league baseball and minor league hockey. They probably won't care about events at other venues either. They want to gamble, eat, drink, and leave.

Some people may shift their entertainment spending from events at the arena, the ballpark, etc. to the casino.

It always comes across that everyone is sitting on an infinite supply of entertainment dollars, and we're waiting for something new to open so we can increase our spending. Or a bunch of wealthy hermits exist who have been waiting their entire lives for a casino to open in Toledo.

The proposed Toledo casino will NOT have an attached hotel, correct? If so, where will visitors stay? At that thing across from the proposed casino site?

I think visitors to the Toledo casino will balk at the idea of staying in hotels in downtown Toledo or in Wood County if it means driving back and forth between the casino and hotel. If Cleveland and Columbus build something nicer, then Ohioans in between will skip Toledo and go to one of the other cities or back up to Detroit.

I believe what's needed is a casino plus attached hotel plus attached parking garage and if necessary, enclosed catwalks. A gambler goes from parked vehicle to the hotel and to the casino with little to no exposure to the weather. And the vehicle is not driven again until the gambler is leaving for home.

If no attached hotel is planned for the Toledo casino, then it sounds like it will be heavily dependent upon locals, which could mean a shift in how people spend their local entertainment money.

Last I heard, it's supposed to be a 1 floor casino with no hotel. I wouldn't stay at the thing they call a hotel down the street either.

This could also be a one day bus destination. 90% of the gambling trips my mom,grandmother, and others in the Rossford area go on are just that one day. They leave about 9 in the morning, gamble for awhile, then about 4 or 5 head back to Rossford.

Speaking of "the thing they call a hotel down the street either.", I asked this before...does ANYone remember the Original Name of that place when it 1st went up...like late 60's?

I looked on the auditor's website, and the only info I could find was who owns it now, and that it was built in 1968. I can ask either my mom, or grandpa, and try to find out, since mom was raised here, and grandpa moved here from Lagrange St. in the 40's

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/99060

Who is paying to widen the Miami Street EXIT off of I-75? Surely that wouldn't be Penn, right? Single lane merging into 2 won't cut it not to mention that one of the most dangerous entrance ramps in town is the Miami St to 75 N entrance. Imagine the increased amount of drivers under even a slight amount of influence trying to get back on 75 after a day or evening of drinking and gambling! they better build a paramedic substation nearby.

Shortstuff...you might want to go visit your doctor and get heavily medicated. I hate to tell you, the sun is going to come out tomorrow and it may blind someone trying to cross the street when a squirrel darts in front of a car that is being driven by a woman talking on the cell phone to her son who is complaining about his dad for venting on him because he is stressed out from being laid off of a work thanks to those good for nothing management types trying to keep the unions down because the share holders expect higher profits in....oh hell, you get the idea.

If you are this negative and afraid about everything, lock yourself away or just get over it.

Hey JustaSooner, back in August 2008 you said, "Do you people really just don't care anymore?
It seems all that is discussed is random political debate threads that have nothing to do with talking about Toledo.
If you truly want your city to turn around, start showing some interest and civic pride. It is pretty apparent that people here just don't care about the place they live in. Discuss the local issues. Spotlight changes in your community. Post ideas on how you want your city to change." Oh I see....bringing up issues of concern is negative? When does it become a "spotlight"? When it's something you agree with? I do wish I lived in your world where everything is so very perfect.