I read that the city Fireworks for the 4th are going forward in spite of the tough economic times, police layoff's, etc. I know the city has to spend a fair amount of $$ on overtime for the police, not sure exactly how much but I think I heard around $25,000.00. The argument from Carty FOR going ahead with it is that the money was "built into the budget" last year.
I'm very patriotic and beleive in community events like this in general but I think these current times would dictate a bit more prudent decision making. My take is this: In the overall scheme of things I know 25K is not that much money but I think on principle/respect of how many have been put out of a job it would be more appropriate to have cancelled them this year. To me, being "built into the budget" is irrelavent. It's still 25K or more of the City of Toledo's money, money that we obviously do NOT have to spare.
Fireworks to go on
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Because Fifth Third received $3.5 in bailout money.
...and yes, Im teasing holland.
Back on subject tho - the sooner we stop thinking that $25,000 isnt a lot of money, the better off we'll be.
billy- I agree it's a lot of money, at least to me anyway. I was anticipating the argument that compared to the millions the city is in debt that 25K is nothing. Small holes sink great ships.
posted by angryconsumer on May 28, 2009 at 02:16:38 pm #
It's pretty close to 1/10th of a percent of the city debt.
Save that much a thousand times and what happens?
you know.. a lot of these expenses I think are excessive (like the flowers being planted) but personally I worry if you didnt do the fireworks, the morale of the city would get even worse. There are certain things you need to continue, just to keep up appearances.
If we didnt have fireworks, Toledoans would have to go to Maummee or BG to see them, and that sends a very bad message.
Though I agree... 25k is really hard to swallow
The City is looking for donations to cover some of the cost. I think that in the past The Maumee Valley Growers Association has donated. Don't know about this year though. We need some beauty in our lives. Makes all a little calmer and a little more human to each other.
There's good and valid thoughts both ways. I think cacelling because most of the city expense will be for Police overtime...
holland- as for "We need some beauty in our lives. Makes all a little calmer and a little more human to each other"......isn't that what Toledo Talk is for??
:-)posted by angryconsumer on May 28, 2009 at 03:34:07 pm #
Uh - It could be but subjects like sphincter bleacing don't conjure up visions of beauty.
I see both sides of the issue. One thing that I am keeping in mind is all the business this brings to local, Downtown restaurants and bars...
We need some beauty in our lives. Makes all a little calmer and a little more human to each other.
If you cant pay your mortgage, but you've got a $20 in your pocket, do you go out and get a couple flats of flowers and put them in?
I dont. I dont want the officials that were put in office to steward my money to do it either. And Toledo cant pay it's mortgage.
Plant flowers in Holland and we'll come see em and relax with y'all out there.
Can't say that I'm all that surprised. Although, until today, I just assumed the fireworks would be canceled.
Silly me, that would make sense.
You do if your family is on the brink of losing its collective sanity and you are certain that the answer to your mortgage problem is on the horizon. This year I can see keeping the fireworks or similar activities, but only some. On the other hand, if the problem is not fixed soon, I think they need to consider canceling more "fun" items in next year's budget regardless of the impact it may have on morale.
You can roll up the sidewalks and send everyone home to save money, but in the end that is how you kill a town for good. If Toledo is going to pull through this mess the citizens need reasons to stay.
posted by MoreThanRhetoric on May 28, 2009 at 04:09:35 pm #
And therein lies the rub. With all due respect MTR, we are already there!!!
What light at the end of the tunnel are you referring to? What answer to our problem do you see on the horizon??? Maybe fiscal responsibility?, but 'future' fiscal responsibility, not present time responsibility?
You think they should consider canceling some 'fun' activities 'next' year. WHY? Isn't a CURRENT debt of $27,000,000 enough for you?
What would make it be the sensible thing to do in 2010 but not in 2009?
You talk about a family's collective sanity - I think that ignoring this $27,000,000 frigging elephant in the middle of the room pretty insane myself!
What if you had a friend or family member in a financial battle for their home and everything they own. When would the advice "NEXT year, you'll have to really start buckling down and not wasting money on frivolous things" make any sense, ever??
It really is as simple as that, isnt it?
Where we disagree is what constitutes frivolous and the trends in the local and national economy. And, no, the answer is not as simple as you put it. There are similarities between your hypothetical and the Toledo budget, but they are not the same situation.
Large cities require recreational/entertainment opportunities. We could stop maintaining all the parks to save cash, but there would be consequences. Like I said, if things continue to spiral downward and there is no end in sight, the city should look at eliminating more from the budget next year. And, the year after that. It should be a process, not a rash, all-or-nothing decision.
People need distractions from the problems or they will begin to see nothing but problems. Once that begins to happen, people begin to leave. You already see that in Toledo. Shredding all the "fun" from the budget will only accelerate the process. And, as a result, it will be more difficult to fill the budget holes for the next year. And the cycle continues.
posted by MoreThanRhetoric on May 28, 2009 at 04:57:30 pm #
I dont compare maintaining a park to lighting $25 grand on fire and blowing it up in a half hour.
Once that begins to happen, people begin to leave.
BEGIN?? Where've you been since the 1970s? You said steps might be necessary next year, and I say they should be implimented now -
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the issue as I wont try to change your mind any longer and Im not going to change mine.
I think MoreThanRhetoric made a good point. We really need to trim the fat and 25k is a lot of money, here is my view of what he was trying to convey.
Say you've been working 10hrs a day 7 days a week for the last 5 years and are still broke, and all of your friends and family have been doing the same.
I think most people would be on the very edge of collapse or mental/physical burnout. Then one day you get together and chip in $2-3 and decide for just one day everyone is going to take a break and spend much needed money to go see a movie together.
Was that money wasted? I don't think so. Because the benefit of using that money was worth more in value to yourself and the ones around you to have a break, remind ourselves why we continue to keep working so hard and relax for one brief moment.
Granted tomorrow you have to go back to that environment but at least you had one spark in a rather dismal life.
posted by INeedCoffee on May 28, 2009 at 05:20:59 pm #
Many points of view....comparisons....opinions....Interesting.
I still think it would have been best to cancel the fireworks this year.... out of fiscal responsibility if nothing else.
Bottom line is the current deficit, the people out of jobs and spending money the city doesn't have to spend.posted by angryconsumer on May 28, 2009 at 05:37:01 pm #
good point too angryconsumer. It's things like this that really show how truly grey the world is. I'm for it for the reason I listed above, but also kind of against it for the reason you mentioned.
Nice to have good things, but if you can get mugged because a bunch of cops have been fired due to budget cuts it's hard to find a balance.
One truth though is that we need people in office who can take issues like this and truly make the right decision that ends with positive results.
posted by INeedCoffee on May 28, 2009 at 08:24:01 pm #
Its a tough call. I'd understand if Toledo had canceled their fireworks. But yet, I can see the argument that you need to have some occasional events to boost morale.
Does Toledo still do the Labor Day fireworks? (Its been awhile since I went.) If so, I think perhaps keeping the 4th of July fireworks and canceling the Labor Day ones would be a decent compromise. 4th of July fireworks have more meaning and tradition for everyone.
And someone mentioned the point of how much potential business the downtown fireworks could bring to businesses there...perhaps that could be incentive for some donations?
I live close to where the Sylvania fireworks take place (have a near "front row seat" from our yard)...in addition to seeing the fireworks, I can also see what kind of traffic the fireworks bring in. I'm sure Toledo gets an even bigger crowd.
Of all events...Fourth of July is not one to cancel. Suggesting otherwise is stupid. The city needs some boost and an event to show them how things can be with some hard work.
posted by JustaSooner on May 28, 2009 at 09:42:26 pm #
exactly. Why couldn't 5/3 or another bank step in and pay for the fireworks?
posted by hockeyfan on May 28, 2009 at 01:22:31 pm #