It's Official. Take Back Toledo Complete Waste of Time

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/fail-cat.jpg

A complete waste of time and money. I wonder what WSPD and its dunderheads will do when Carty is out of office. Perhaps they could use their time and effort to promote the city and region rather than tear it down.

I don't about that. I think Carty may have run again if it weren't for the Take Back Toledo campaign. Plus this will give Carty something else to omit when he writes his autobiography.

HA! I love this. Egos should never prevail over common sense, maybe next time widdle boys.

How was this was a waste of time and money? Are you referring to Carty's legal fees used to prevent a blemish on his political record?

The TBT recall effort simply followed the guidelines provided to them by the process. If you don't like it, then change the law to deny citizens the ability to participate in the petition-gathering process for any reason.

No one has been more destructive to Toledo and this region than Czarty and his 12 years as tyrant. Yet, Toledoans voted him into office. If you're blaming a radio station for tearing down the city, then in my opinion, you're ignoring reality. I would say another local media org whose owner(s) live in another state has had a far greater destructive influence on Toledo over the past 15-plus years than WSPD.

I believe Czarty was one of the designers of the strong mayor format, and he may have had a hand in crafting the wording that permits citizens to recall a mayor.

Czarty deserved the recall stain on his political record. He's a despicable politician who will now probably reappear on the local scene when he steps down from the mayoral throne. Czarty will interject himself into some kind of local position of power.

The Ohio supreme court basically ruled that citizens are denied the ability to blemish a politician even when citizens follow the proper procedures. It goes to show who is really in charge here. It's not the citizens. It's the powerful elite.

Remedy?

The biased and dying Toledo Blade newspaper concluded the story with:

Suburban businessmen and citizens have helped bankroll the campaigns of Toledo politicians, so what's the problem with funding the embarrassing removal of a politician?

The Toledo Blade dislikes the fact that suburbanites were involved in the recall effort. "How goes Toledo, so goes the region." I've heard that saying a lot over the years. If that saying is true, then it's perfectly fine for suburbanites to be involved in Toledo's political doings especially for those who live outside Toledo but work in the city and pay taxes to Toledo and have no vote on how their money is spent.

About 60% of the Toledo Public School teachers live outside Toledo. I wonder if these people have ever involved themselves in Toledo-only political issues, like TPS levies.

And why does John R. Block summon Toledo-area officials and developers to Pittsburgh? The Blade owner has no problem being involved in Toledo's affairs from Pittsburgh, yet he apparently dislikes it when metro Toledo residents take an interest in Toledo's happenings.

Boost ratings? I can understand why the Blade dropped that into the story. After all, the Blade's circulation numbers have been tanking for more than 15 years.

May 14 2009 - Toledo Free Press - Blade circulation numbers down 42,700 since 2004.

Sunday Blade circulation numbers:

• 215,490 as of Sep 1991
• 135,567 as of Mar 2009

And the moronic Blade writer/editor is wrong about the recall effort being unsuccessful. I bet the Blade and local officials never thought the TBT effort would get enough valid signatures.

Four people in the state supreme court has nullified over 20,000 valid signatures. Four people. Three on the court agreed with the TBT.

But the fact remains that when organized, area citizens can send a message to local politicians that no elected office is safe.

And I think this is what infuriates the Blade. How dare citizens exercise that kind of power without the Blade's blessing. That's why the Blade called it unsuccessful because the Blade never wanted to see it succeed.

Oh, speaking of unsuccessful, Blade circulation numbers down 42,700 since 2004.

I don't think anyone here is claiming Carty to have been a wonderful mayor, just that TBT was a joke as well. They deserved each other.

"... just that TBT was a joke as well."

Explain. How was it a joke?

What did it accomplish? NOTHING. It gave Fred the Hedgehog something to drone on about every morning on SPEDY and that's about it. It DID NOT stop Carty from running again (even though that would have been fun) and the people involved were ego driven morons that spent time and money on a senseless act instead of trying to actually do anything beneficial for the town they supposedly love. In the end they look extra ingnorant considering that Cartys people were smarter than they were when analyzing the verbage of the petition.

A joke.

Two things bother me about this incident.

From The Blade: The all-Republican high court, by a 4-3 vote, came to the defense of the Democratic mayor

Which means that the ruling was far from cut and dried. If there were a clear violation, the ruling should have been 7-0. Instead, I believe that the Ohio SC is showing that it is not impartial.

From The Blade: If the recall vote had been successful, the mayor would have been removed from office for the last few weeks of his term.

Which should make people ask the obvious: Why bother? The obvious answer is that the mayor of Toledo is so bad that even the terminally apathetic voters in a morbidly depressed area will sober up long enough to sign a petition, donate a few bucks and demonstrate.

Ryan, do you have any idea how bad things have to get before a movement like TBT will get off the ground, let alone come within one partial vote of succeeding?

And, by the way, I do not consider the Take Back Toledo effort to be a complete failure. Yes, they failed to oust Finkbeiner from office, but the succeeded in starting an important political movement and proving that it is still possible to have a major influence in local government. If not for TBTs efforts, Carty would have happily run for mayor again.

You can say that, but cannot prove it. Put the magic eight ball down.

"... the people involved were ego driven morons that spent time and money on a senseless act instead of trying to actually do anything beneficial for the town they supposedly love."

Ryan, you just described local politicians.

If the recall effort was a joke, why did Carty fight it? Why is Carty now gloating over the state supreme court's decision?

Carty claims that in December 2004, he decided he would not seek re-election for mayor in 2009 if he won in 2005. So if Carty knew he would never run for mayor in 2009, why did he care about the recall effort, especially if it was a joke? The answer is simple. Carty didn't want the recall on his record.

The state supreme court's decision is not just a victory for Carty. It's also a victory for the Blade and a victory for the power-brokers. And it's a loss for future grassroots efforts that will always be fighting powerful, expensive lawyers.

The four, local political machines are the Toledo Blade, Democrat party 'A', Democrat party 'B', and the Republican party, and they have really accomplished a lot, right? The recall effort was attempting to undermine the influence of these destructive political forces. After all, the Blade is also perturbed that so many local candidates have the nerve to run as independents.

You know, if this was something else, people would be clamoring "Disenfranchisement!" and "Make every vote count!"

"... trying to actually do anything beneficial for the town they supposedly love."

The TBT effort was attempting to do something beneficial to the area. You fail to see the big picture. You need to expand your thinking. This was not just about Carty. This was going after the forces that have ruled and screwed Toledo for so long.

And this state supreme court decision shows how difficult it is to accomplish something through the political process at the grassroots level.

Carty also has an ego - that's why. The SSC decision shows that TBT isn;t as smart as they think. If they continue to move forward and work on other things I may retract some of my statements, but I doubt it highly.

jr - regarding your comment about Carty's legal expenses, according to Channel 13, because he won his appeal Lucas County must pay his legal expenses.

If the leaders of TAKE BACK TOLEDO couldn't TAKE BACK A MAYOR ?

How do they expect to TAKE BACK TOLEDO ?

So Lucas county has to pay for Cartys legal expenses caused by TBT's frivolous witchhunt?

Thanks TBT - you do a city good!

Laughable.

Again, I have to complain that it's even possible to start a petition effort that is not fully compliant with legal standards through the Board of Elections. The Board should have in fact templates ready to print out, which are thusly compliant.

Let's not blame anybody but TBT please. They spearheaded it.

Here's why it was a waste of time and money.

First, even if successful, all it would have done was put Toledo on the news for another negative thing.

Second, it was done so late in Carty's term that it would have only removed him 2 months early, maybe 3. Big deal.

Third, I don't care whether it was Carty or TBT. The movement used taxpayer money to fight each other. Once again, for what? 2-3 months of removing a mayor?

It was a waste. It resulting in changing nothing but making Carty a lightning rod for everything going wrong these days. He's far from perfect, but blaming him for the loss of jobs and other economic woes when it's happening all over the country is just stupid.
If Carty is to blame for all the problems, I guess we only have to wait until the next mayor gets elected and everything will be perfect. Just like when Ford was in office, right?
Voters only hear what they want to hear. Obama promised all kinds of crap and here it is months later and what is better? The economy sucks, the deficit is out of control, we are now involved in 2 wars/terrorist actions/wars on terror/etc.
It's business and politics as usual. Why is Toledo and it's mayor going to be any different?

hockeyfan -

B.I.N.G.O!

Here are a couple more benefits and positives of the TBT movement.

At least two qualifications are required for a signature to be counted as valid, including being a citizen of Toledo and being a registered voter. The TBT effort probably created some new registered voters, which is a positive.

And the TBT effort caused more people to pay attention to the sordid details of Toledo politics. And having more people informed about the issues is also a positive. Politicians despise an informed citizenry. Politicians thrive on citizen ignorance.

Carty is a three-term mayor. 12 years. Think about that. How does that happen? Too many people not paying attention and not caring. Toledo's apathy toward local politics has contributed to the city's decline.

My April 2009 comment :

Luck or weird circumstances may account for a buffoon getting elected mayor once, but three times is an indication of an habitual problem with the citizens. Toledoans are to blame for Toledo's failures. It's going to take a lengthy rehab stint to correct this mindset.

The TBT effort got more people registered to vote and more people paying attention. That can benefit Toledo in the long run. And this will hopefully continue to grow to prevent another Carty-like disaster from occurring in Toledo.

And the next Toledo disaster looms on the horizon. It's called "Son of Carty" also known as Ben Konop who is the Toledo Blade's candidate. It's possible that Son of Carty could be even more dangerous than Carty.

And the outlying communities including those in other counties need to be worried about Son of Carty.

Remember the Regional Tax Plan to support Toledo organizations? Son of Carty proposed this idea in 2006. This idea, however, requires a change in state law. And I don't know how as mayor Son of Carty could achieve this, but with the Blade pulling his strings, he's got help.

From November 2006:

I'm sure people living in Bowling Green or Oak Harbor wouldn't mind having their taxes increased to support Toledo orgs.

Son of Carty's 2006 regional tax plan is adapted from a February 2004 Toledo Blade idea. :

From an April 2006 Blade story

Tax other communities in other counties to fund Toledo-based orgs. This aligns with what Son of Carty said last summer: "The fate of our region, in large part, depends on the future of downtown [Toledo]."

Son of Carty's deranged thinking is exactly the reason why suburbanites need to involve themselves in Toledo politics like the Pittsburgh Blade does.

Although I can't stand Carty, I think the TBT was indeed a waste of time. Several members all had axes to grind -to grind - Brian Schwartz, who was fired by Carty for making vulgar comments during a Detroit radio interview, James Hartung, former president of the Toledo Lucas County Port Authority, who was fired by the port board after Carty disclosed an affair Hartung was having with a lobbyist whom Hartung was getting tax payer funding for, Developer Brian McMahon, who has been promoting an intermodal hub near Toledo Express Airport just so he can unload a crappy piece of property he has owned and hasn't been able to sell for the last 15 years. And don't get me started on WSPD's Fred Lefebvre and Brian Wilson. Total morons! I would be very wary of which mayoral candidate this group supports now. I would definitely not vote for that candidate, no matter who it is.

I'm glad Carty is not going to run again. I do hope the next mayor, though, will also reject these "rejects" and be strong for Toledo.

"... about Carty's legal expenses, according to Channel 13, because he won his appeal Lucas County must pay his legal expenses."

Is that because the Lucas County BOE lost?

From the Jul 27, 2009 Toledo Free Press story :

You know Carty was not smart enough to come up with that defense on his own.

So why was the legal clause not on the petition? Well, TBT believes the statement only is needed on statewide ballot issues.

And three of the seven judges agreed with the Lucas County BOE.

After the court's decision, our supreme ruler chortled:

WSPD is located in downtown Toledo. Miller helped launch a new business in a renovated building, located in downtown Toledo. Schlachter owns income-producing property in Toledo and pays property and income taxes to Toledo. The mayor once again demonstrated how mentally gone he is.

And why move into Toledo when Carty wants to raise taxes on Toledoans?

More from the TFP story:

What a joke. Way to bring more negative attention to an area that gets enough of it as it is.

jr- why do you quote so many things in every post you make? I'm sure I don't stand alone when I say that I just skip them because they are so long. You might have some good points, but you need to shorten your posts and quote less.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090728/NEWS02/907280382

"He is not going to be the mayor next year, and that was the point all along," Take Back Toledo spokesman Tom Schlachter said.

What does this mean? What was the 'point all along'?

The whole point was to make it so Carty wouldn't run again, from what I can tell.

While I completely support the right of anyone to bring a referendum before the voters, I think this could have been done in a different way. Now, according to posters here, the BOE is on the hook for these legal bills, as well as the expense of checking all the signatures in the first place.

It means that is the very last thing that they can take any credit for whatsoever (even though Carty decided that himself by not running). The SSC hands them a smack down and they are still trying to find a way to pat themselves on their backs for doing NOTHING but wasting time and money (and yes, some taxpayer time and money!). I will be interested to see what their next “move for the city” is, if anything.

Getting people to register to vote is not the same as having them vote. Most registered because someone came up to them and had them fill out paperwork. To vote, they will have to make time, wait in line, and put up with a general hassle. I'm willing to bet there will be no more voters than last election.
TBT, don't bruise yourselves while you're patting yourselves on the back.

And if the point was to get Carty not to run again, why? Are they so worried that "their" candidate wouldn't stand a chance against someone who they claim was so bad for Toledo? If they are trying to clear out other candidates so their choice will win, how are they going to go after the next person in their sights? Scandal? Planted drugs? Nothing like "rigging" an election, huh?

"jr- why do you quote so many things in every post you make? I'm sure I don't stand alone when I say that I just skip them because they are so long. You might have some good points, but you need to shorten your posts and quote less."

My posts are sometimes long because I think bigger than what fits on a bumper sticker or in a 140-character tweet. You actually have to expend more than five seconds of brain power when reading one of my posts because they contain so much valuable information. I don't write for the small-minded dimwit crowd who are probably responsible for 12 years of Carty. And I don't take advice from anyone on how to craft my posts. Was this response short enough for you, or do you need a few days to digest it?

slowsol, your only contribution to this topic was:

"What a joke. Way to bring more negative attention to an area that gets enough of it as it is."

Is that all you can mentally muster? If so, then what was the point of even logging in? I have no patience for lame thinkers. Take a few minutes to craft an intelligent, opposing view instead of embarrassing yourself with such pedestrian rhetoric. And if you lack the mental energy to defend whatever point you're trying to make, that's OK. Simply move on. Go back to watching TV. And if you or someone else find my words insulting, that's not my problem.

Dang, like totally mean and stuff!

'The group turned in about 45,000 signatures, of which 22,231 were found to be valid.'

And this is all so that they can now say they made sure Carty didn't run again? That was the purpose or at least the fallback line if/when the whole thing blew up, as it now has?

Pathetic.

Hockeyfan, you opened that mouth, so you asked for it:

You said: “ First, even if successful, all it would have done was put Toledo on the news for another negative thing. ”

Removing a bad mayor is a positive thing. Try again.

You said: “ Second, it was done so late in Carty's term that it would have only removed him 2 months early, maybe 3. Big deal. ”

Removing a bad mayor is always useful. In addition, an actual recall would have barred Czarty from running for office again for a period of time. Funny how folks like you forget details like that.

You said: “ Third, I don't care whether it was Carty or TBT. The movement used taxpayer money to fight each other. Once again, for what? 2-3 months of removing a mayor? ”

If you have a problem with the costs of a legal democratic method, then petition to get such a democratic method removed from the law.

You said: “ He's far from perfect[.] ”

No, Czarty is far from ADEQUATE. You're excusing his wretched incompetence, and that's silly.

You said: “ It's business and politics as usual. Why is Toledo and it's mayor going to be any different? ”

Because it CAN be different. We don't HAVE TO end up like Detroit. The way we're going under your acceptance and avoidance of criticizing the government, the Detroit End is our only option.

But they were NOT successful, not in one portion of their movement. Nada, nothing, did no good – period. That is the finality of it all.

Worthless.

But listening to them they stopped Carty from being mayor for another 4 years.

Laughable.

I wonder whose house they had their weekly circle jerks at.

Or you could look at it as 45,000 people's message was sent and heard. Some think that's doing good.

jr- I didn't read your post. Shorten it up and I will respond. ;)

I'de love to sit on a message board all day and quote seven different sources to prove my point. But I don't need to, I'm pretty confident with my internet manhood.

^Oh no you dittint!

It's interesting reading the disdain directed at a group that has existed for only eight months or so. Do you have a problem with people organizing? And have you expressed this same level of outrage at your local government, or are you fine with the status quo of failure?

Today, Czarty once again demanded council approve his old 'revenue enhancement' ideas (tax increases), and Czarty tossed out a new one. Czarty wants to raise the city's three-quarter-percent income tax to a full one-percent. Yes, the solution to attracting more businesses and residents is to raise taxes. Let's continue the Detrotification of Toledo.

Then start a thread about that and lets bitch. Nobody likes a hijacked thread.

Jr, I truly believe that people in Toledo are actually THREATENED by grass-roots organization. It's probably that ol' union mentality infecting everything.

And you will continue to think that because you disagree with some of their politics. It's not rocket science.

Not sure how you can be threatened by something that does NOTHING. But that's just me.

It will be interesting to see what services are cut or what taxes are raised in the next administration. Perhaps those responses to the current economy can also be blamed on Finkbeiner.

"Not sure how you can be threatened by something that does NOTHING. But that's just me."

Indeed, it is you. If the TBT effort truly was a joke and had accomplished nothing, why Ryan do you continue to prattle on about them? It seems one would ignore such an irrelevant org. Your continual protesting actually validates TBT. You act threatened.

GZ is on to something. What people like Ryan and the Blade really dislike is the fact that a group of people have organized in metro Toledo who have a political ideology that is different. And how dare someone think differently in the People's Republic of Toledo County.

"Nobody likes a hijacked thread."

What's been hijacked? It's all related. Your failure to understand that is part of the problem with Toledo because too many people don't get it.

GZ is on to something. What people like R. and the Blade really dislike is the fact that a group of people have organized in metro Toledo who have a political ideology that is different. And how dare someone think differently in the People's Republic of Toledo County.
--------------------------------

BINGO

I am all for people taking action into their own hands. Just don't claim success when you did nothing but spend taxpayers money accomplishing nothing.

AND THAT is what some people don't seem to understand. I guess that's why I have had to repeat it over and over. And since TBT is souch a waste that will be my last post in this thread about it. Hope that makes you happy.

It does me, thanks!

LOL ;^D

One thing that bothers me is that when a candidate loses in Toledo or a grass roots organization like TBT fails, the politicos on the losing side characterize their defeat as the "the voters' fault" or "the citizenry of Toledo doesn't get it."

Sorry, but I read that kind of thinking on the threads of TT all the time.

I'd rather see these political people acknowledge that THEY did not articulate their positions in a way that resonates with the voters. Because this what really matters to me: Can a candidate speak to the concerns of a voter. Is a individual genuine enough that the voter feels that the interests of the city and it's residents are what is motivating their candidacy rather than the interests of their business.

I suspect that we will be hearing that OVER AND OVER AND OVER again if a new kind of leader does not win in the upcoming mayoral election . . . it will be the citizens fault. It will be Toledo's fault.

I'm tired of it.

Sorry if you're tired of it Corky, but if a new kind of leader does not win in the upcoming mayoral election . . . it will be the citizens fault. It will be Toledo's fault.

it's true.

From Corky: the politicos on the losing side characterize their defeat as the "the voters' fault" or "the citizenry of Toledo doesn't get it."

It's a common cliche. Obviously the voters are not at fault unless they voted for the opposition. The non-voters are at fault. Toledo, and I think the U.S. in general, endures a lot of apathy on many issues. Commercial media reports on a demonstration of several dozen people as if it were a ground shaking event. In reality, it shouldn't even rate the back page.

Another cliche is 'they just don't get it'. Whoever repeats this one and actually believes it is in denial. Sure they get it. They don't care. Get it?

_The non-voters are at fault. _

Point taken. In at least my postings, Ive beeen considering pretty much all eligible citizens of toledo as 'voters' whether they vote or not. I guess I should be more precise in the future.

We're seeing the same thing here we do on a national level with Sarah Palin-liberal twits who are TERRIFIED at the thought of conservative folks uniting-and uniting we are!

I said in earlier comment: "Toledo's apathy toward local politics has contributed to the city's decline."

The Toledo voter turnout in the September 2005 primary was 22%, which unfortunately is now considered a good turnout for a September election.

22% of 189,454 registered Toledo voters = 41,680 Toledoans who voted in the September 2005 primary.

According to the 2000 census, Toledo had 231,488 people age 18 and over and a total population of 313,619.

corky said: "I'd rather see these political people acknowledge that THEY did not articulate their positions in a way that resonates with the voters."

corky, TBT met the requirements for a recall. They obtained enough valid signatures, so they obviously articulated their position well. But four out of seven judges in Columubus thought differently.

TBT articulated its goal in a December 2008 Toledo Blade story :

"Just don't claim success when you did nothing but spend taxpayers money ..."

But TBT did NOT waste taxpayer money. How could they have when they simply followed the procedures available to them? A petition-gathering process.

As GZ said: "If you have a problem with the costs of a legal democratic method, then petition to get such a democratic method removed from the law."

Change the rules to prohibit a recall effort from occurring in the final year of a mayor's term. Or eliminate the petition-gathering process for any issue.

One of the jobs of the board of elections is to verify signatures. So again, taxpayer money was not wasted.

From the TFP story:

So are you blaming the board of elections for its decision to approve the petitions?

Are you blaming Czarty for challenging the issue? If he only had two months left in office after the November recall vote, why bother challenging?

And when Toledo government, Lucas County government, and the Toledo Public School system squanders millions of dollars, do you criticize them too?

"... the politicos on the losing side characterize their defeat as the "the voters' fault" or "the citizenry of Toledo doesn't get it." "

It's true. For proof, I present three-term, nutty tyrant Carty Finkbeiner. No way could Czarty get elected to three terms if an informed and concerned citizenry existed.

Obviously, voter apathy is not unique to Toledo, but I'm not talking about other cities. I'm talking about the one I live in.

But maybe non-voters are happier than the voters, so we shouldn't worry about any of this. Let's accept Toledo's decline and enjoy ourselves. First round is on Ryan.

I don't think TBT would be as unpopular if it didn't have WSPD's stink on it.

For Christ's sake, fine--it's been long-established that the majority of Toledo citizens are lazy dunces who either don't turn out at the polls, or when they do, vote in cretons like Finkbeiner--again, and again, and again.

Too much union influence, too much daily paper influence, too much old-boy's-network do-things-as-they've-always-been-done-for-a thousand-years influence---clearly the people of this city--or at least the long-established voting-majority of this city--are beyond help, can't make decisions and choices that would better their way of life, their standard of living, their future and those of their childen--they are clearly incapable of moving forward and must prefer to spend the remainder of their existence in a dying, decaying scrap-heap of Midwest rust metal.

Choices, or at least a choice, always remain--fucking move.

Find a job, find a house, find a community where the citizenry aren't led around like sheep by the established-network of power brokers such as they are in Toledo--exercise your FREEDOM OF CHOICE (something I've read and heard alot about as it applies in other areas by the very same people who bitch about this town and the people in it), just as you would buying a car, going to a restuarant, choosing a private school or college for your kids, getting your hair cut--and get outta Dodge, like the thousands who already left while not letting the door hit 'em on their ass on the way out.

What is it they apparently can do for themselves that you can't or won't?

McCaskey for Mayor!!!!

What is it they apparently can do for themselves that you can't or won't?

Sell my house.

But McCaskey, "How goes Toledo, so goes the region."

So according to you, the proper move would be to move away from the region and not just away from Toledo. I chose to move into the Lake Erie West region from the booming central Ohio region because Lake Erie exists here. My April 2009 comment :

In my opinion, the four main positive aspects about Toledo, I mean, this region are:

• Proximity to Lake Erie
• Proximity to the Maumee River
• Proximity to the Oak Openings Region
• Proximity to Ann Arbor

I like this region and not one particular town. But if the LEW suffers when Toledo declines, how is that good? Granted, living in Perrysburg is probably several times better than living in Toledo, but eventually, the other communities will be or are affected by a decaying Toledo.

Which is why you hear mayoral candidates Mike Bell and Mike Collins talking about working with the other communities, and hopefully that extends beyond Lucas County.

But even Carty four years ago mentioned regional cooperation. Here are a few of Carty's 34 campaign promises from 2005:

1. Work with the University of Toledo, Bowling Green State University, Medical University of Ohio and Owens Community College to develop a “technology corridor,” creating the jobs of the future.

7. Work with Ann Arbor and Detroit public and private leaders to create an automotive R&D corridor linking our cities. The purpose – job creation.

9. Encourage and promote a regional government to include, city, county and suburban governments all under one roof, in as many ways as possible. [actually this is unigov not regionalism]

So the other communities have heard talk about regional cooperation in the past. But the 12 years of Carty and his gang never had the personality to turn these words into action and neither does "Son of Carty."

About Lake Erie West:

• 1993 - Another Story That Should Knock Your Socks Off
• 1995 - The Midwest's New England
• 2005 - Open for Business

From that 1993 article:

Among the [LEW] benefits:

• Access to Consumer Markets - Lake Erie West is the center of a 1-day drive [to] 12 of the Nation's 20 largest urban areas.
• Access to Industrial Markets - That same drive time gains access to 50% of the industrial businesses in both the U.S. and Canada.
• Transportation - Lake Erie West is served by a truly complete combination of airports (Detroit Metropolitan, Toledo Express, Willow Run, and Windsor International), railways (4th largest center in the USA), highways, and the Great Lakes busiest port.
• Fresh Water - Lake Erie West has the largest supply of fresh water in the world. Water for Industrial use, for recreation, for survival in a world of shrinking supply.
• Education - Lake Erie West has more than 33 colleges and universities, and many more training facilities.
• Quality of Life - Many Lake Erie West communities provide excellent quality of life, with low cost of living and housing, cultural and sports features, quick drive times and little of the crime, social problems and hectic pace of major urban areas.

From that 2005 Toledo City Paper article:

What's the status report? I could probably guess.

Is it possible to improve the region without Toledo's involvement? I'm not sure. Seems unlikely. But the other communities do not have an interest in working with the thug-like mentality that exists with some or many Toledo-based officials. So the region flounders.

Let me say this a different way . . .

If an advertiser has a new campaign to market a product and it does not work, it is not the consumers fault.

Can you imagine if an ad agency went back to a company after an unsuccessful ad campaign and said,

"The consumers in the area just don't know what's good for them. They just don't get it. It is their fault that they can't see how wonderful our product is."

But when a candidate is unsuccessful in the Toledo area, all we get is ...

"The voters in the area just don't know what's good for them. They just don't get it. It's their fault that they can't see how wonderful I am."

WRONG.

We've got democrats who can get people to vote for them but don't seem to do really well in running the city or attracting jobs to the region. We've got republicans who can't seem to get people to vote for them despite their pledges to effectively run the city and attract jobs to the region.

If Republicans fail to get a new leader in, it will be because THEY did not successfully run their campaign in such a way that clearly articulated their plans to inspire those eligible to vote to pull the lever for them.

If I can't get you to do something, that isn't something that I can responsibly blame you for. It is something that I must take responsibility for. Until candidates get that we will see the same old campaigns spewing the same old rhetoric and empty promises with no chance of any meaningful progress in the area.

If I can't get you to do something, that isn't something that I can responsibly blame you for. It is something that I must take responsibility for.

So if a doctor tells an overweight patient he needs to cut out fat and excercise, and the patient doesnt do it and has a heart attack and dies, then by your reasoning it's the doctor's fault?

This is going off on a tangent that isn't productive.

I'm just saying that the Republicans in this area are really good at blaming the voters when they don't win elections. It would benefit them greatly if they examined why their message does not inspire the voters here to elect them rather than just blame them for losing.

there are a lot of posters out here who are NOT republicans who put the blame on the citizens of toledo for putting the people in place who are there.

remember, the republicans in this city are a vast minority, but the vast majority of people are bitching.

you're looking for a scapegoat.

It doesn't matter if you are republican or democrat. The city isn't everything it can be due to many reasons. The mayor, the unions, the economy, the citizens, etc.
Until people can stop pointing fingers and work together to help instead of break things down it will continue. It's not magic. We can't just sit by and hope someone else will do it.
Instead of just hearing what we want to hear, let's roll up our sleeves, take an honest look at facts and make the best decisions for the majority of citizens. That is what's going to change things for everyone.

Billy,

Really. I'm not looking for a scapegoat. I'm simply calling out those people who won't accept responsibility for their own failures.

Blaming voters when you can't get elected doesn't make much sense to me. It is a different kind of victim mentality, but it is a victim mentality nonetheless.

I guess that's my issue. I dont here politicians who lost elections blaming anyone. Who do you hear saying that?

remember, the republicans in this city are a vast minority, but the vast majority of people are bitching.

Going by past election results, at least those in the mayoral race, either this is not the case, or the 'majority of people' in Toledo don't blame Carty--or the Democractic majority-- for the city's ills. They've kept on electing him and others like Ford.

jr, regarding your post, move to the 'burbs, because I'm not totally sold on the notion 'as Toledo goes so goes LEW.'

You can enjoy all the benefits of this area while living in any of the city's surrounding suburbs.

'I dont here politicians who lost elections blaming anyone. Who do you hear saying that?'

Easy one. Principally WSPD and posters on local blogs like this one and SwampBubbles.

No, the politicians themselves aren't going to blame the voters; they're politicians, and they might run again.

If the end result is all that matters then in all honesty we would have to say that 99% of the discussions on this board are a waste of time since even with all the bitching very little gets done or changed. but I guess to some the only fight worth fighting is one that is already won, while to others fighting for what you believe is worth the possibility of failing.

"jr, regarding your post, move to the 'burbs, because I'm not totally sold on the notion 'as Toledo goes so goes LEW."

As a transplant to this region, I've lived in Perrysburg Township, Toledo, Rossford, and now Toledo again.

OK, this might be a stretch, but here's another reason why it's a good idea for Toledo to improve: The Environment.

It's environmentally-friendly for the region if Toledo does better. The suburbs don't create suburban sprawl. Dying urban centers due to failing public schools and bad political decisions cause people to say, "The hell with this," and then they move to the farm fields and the Oak Openings Region. Or maybe people don't want to live in little old houses in the city.

Re-using as many old buildings, houses, and vacant lots as possible within the urban center can reduce the outward flow of citizens, which can save habitat and protect the environment. But a better political environment is needed to keep people and businesses within the urban center and to attract people and businesses from the outlying areas. Now I'm sounding like an urban-planner weenie, but I figure it's possible to bring just about any issue back to the environment.

I'm guessing, however, that it's easier for developers and investors to build a new project in a vacant field outside the urban center than it is to renovate existing structures or to sandwich a new project among existing structures within the urban center.

And the suburbs might want to see Toledo do better because less riff-raff would head their way.

This is a pretty good read on what this author calls "demographic inversion."

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=264510ca-2170-49cd-bad5-a0be122ac1a9

"Thirty years ago, the mayor of Chicago was unseated by a snowstorm. A blizzard in January of 1979 dumped some 20 inches on the ground, causing, among other problems, a curtailment of transit service. The few available trains coming downtown from the northwest side filled up with middle-class white riders near the far end of the line, leaving no room for poorer people trying to board on inner-city platforms. African Americans and Hispanics blamed this on Mayor Michael Bilandic, and he lost the Democratic primary to Jane Byrne a few weeks later.

Today, this could never happen. Not because of climate change, or because the Chicago Transit Authority now runs flawlessly. It couldn't happen because the trains would fill up with minorities and immigrants on the outskirts of the city, and the passengers left stranded at the inner-city stations would be members of the affluent professional class."

hockeyfan said: “ Instead of just hearing what we want to hear, let's roll up our sleeves, take an honest look at facts and make the best decisions for the majority of citizens. That is what's going to change things for everyone. ”

Well, hockeyfan, I'd love to do that, but on average the people you try to work with are highly delusional, to wit:

1. They believe that you can tax and spend the city back into prosperity.
2. They don't believe in the fundamental liberty of keeping and bearing arms.
3. They believe in downtown-centrism, instead of just letting people live and work where they please.
4. They believe in tax abatements, which are fundamentally unfair.
5. They believe in spending public funds on whatever silly little biased project that caught their fancy.

I believe in a much smaller government, with what remains as focused on the basics: enforcement, protection, utilities.

If you can't take an honest look at the facts and arrive at the conclusion that GOVERNMENT ITSELF IS THE PROBLEM, then you and I simply can't work together.

yeah! cause anarchy is the answer to everything! WOO ANARCHY!

1. NEIN
2. NEIN
3. I'd rather people live where they want to live. ie, I don't want a bunch of rednecks (who probably smoke meth or whatever it is those people do) living next door anymore than I want drug dealers living next door.
4. NEIN
5. NEIN

http://www.catostore.org/index.asp?fa=ProductDetails&method=&pid=1441337

Toledolen, having a government limited to the constitutional or chartered level, where it's focused on enforcement, protection and utilities, IS NOT ANARCHY.

Toledoans have a severe mental handicap with understanding the scope of personal liberty that this nation was founded upon. That explains why they vote Democrat so often, in their desire to have a politician toss tax money at them for their own pet projects.

I love a good fight like we had, and I'm looking forward to the next one. And look at how great the city is doing as a result of this endless voting for democrats---nobody in their right mind would want to locate here.

Toledo votes Democrat for entirely different reasons. And there's a long history of it in this city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_M._Jones But don't be fooled, Carty was never a Democrat.

See GuestZero, you defeat the purpose before you even begin.

If you go into the situation with beliefs that you won't be able to change and "they" can't do the right thing, nothing will change.

Let's get motivated to find a candidate that will reduce government and make the tough choices for the better of Toledo. Not to extend a political career. Only then will change occur.

HF, how can an honest assessment of what's true, be defeating?

I extend the hand of assistance as I see fit, and I've volunteered before, not that it seemed to be very effective.

I largely vote along Libertarian lines, which means I'm very disappointed in EVERY election.

The people who have stepped up on their own (hah!) for the mayor's spot offer a spectrum of representation, but all but two of those will be obliterated by the primary, and even if they were allowed a straight vote-off, over 90% of the voter will ONLY be gathered around two of those candidates anyway ... and those two candidates will be Democrat Light and Democrat Heavy, and their obscene monopolization of the vote will be directly proportional to the Blade's coverage and what I call "linguistic handling".

In short, this city is run by a Democratic Party Machine, like most cities are, and you just can't find real democracy around here as a result.

For the record, the more I hear of Moody's ideas, the more I like the idea of giving him the mayor's seat. But let's be forthright, here: He's a Republican. He has ZERO chance of surviving the primary. Toledo votes Democrat. So it's not my fault, now, is it?

Since I can't force people to make their choices, I can only talk. So I talk. And I talk. And then I talk some more. And in a society of peers, that's the only thing that I can actively do.

The Blue Dog democrats are supporting Bell...I'm really tuned in

GuestZero, I probably shouldn't put the entire burden on you only. There are people in both parties that need to open up to new ways of thinking.

I'm just tired of Dems saying everything Republican is wrong and they are right and the Republicans saying the exact same of Dems.
It's so shortsighted.

HF, the Dems and Repubs are at each others' throats since they are part of the same system of singular control. That much, you recognize. To escape it, we need to reject partisan thinking and make rational choices politically, or AT LEAST justify clearly why we make the stupid choices we make. Although I hardly honor people who say "I support this-or-that project with my tax money", at least those people are ADMITTING they are using public funds. We need to build on understanding and admission, and then work our way upward.

Comical. Jul 30, 2009 Toledo Blade op-ed titled Justice for Carty :

Um, the 20,000-plus valid signatures were from Toledo residents not from people living in the suburbs.

Jul 24, 2009 Blade story

JRB lives in Pennsylvania, but he apparently has a home in Toledo. So it's OK for a Pennsylvania resident to tell Toledoans to ignore its suburbs. Many local suburbanites are former Toledoans, and some work in Toledo or have business dealings in Toledo, like JRB, except the latter lives in another state. Calling the Blade hypocritical is redundant. The Blade dislikes citizen involvement in anything the Blade opposes.

Here's in entertaining Blade story I stumbled across recently. Jun 1, 2009 - Accolade avalanche. It's about a party for Carty. Accolades?

Yikes!

JRB's tribute to Carty was not exactly glowing. I mean, the word "remarkable" does apply to Carty but in a horrible way.

Carty was an outsider. Carty was born and raised in Toledo, but he lived in Perrysburg from 1966-1975.

Hey, that Dillin character lives outside Toledo too. Why is an outsider involved in Toledo development projects, and why was he hanging out with a Pennsylvanian at a party for Toledo's biggest malfunction in years? Is Dillin pursuing personal agendas?

I wonder if PA-JRB is aware that the Blade circulation numbers are down 42,700 since 2004.

GuestZero,
It will take some completely new thinking to change politics "as usual". I don't know if it can be done. Too many people are making too much money and have too much power with the way things are done now to change.