Flying Toledo Express

they canceled our vacation flight this past summer, too few tickets sold...they offered columbus and kalamazoo as other options.

Detroit airport is only twenty minutes farther than Toledo express from my house, offers way more direct flights across the country and offers way more in the way of ammenities if I'm stuck waiting for a delayed flight. Toledo express is a nice airport, but when you factor in most of the flights I've taken out of there had my laying over in Detroit or Chicago... It just makes more sense flying directly out of Detroit. I fly a lot, and convienience is king.

Direct flight from Detroit to Germany. lol

Like everyone else, I'd love to fly out of TOL, but you only end up puddle-jumping to Detroit or any other "real" airport offering direct flights. Driving to/from Detroit metro sucks...as does the hassle of maneuvering inside any of the big airport terminals.

Detroit airport isn't bad for driving, its congested sometimes but what do you expect it has what 20 times the number of terminals as Toledo, Serves like 4 major airlines, is like 4 times the size of Toledo. If you live anywhere near Toledo then its probably a better option but anyone north of the state line or east of I75 would do better to hit Detroit for a flight.

Does anybody know if there is a reliable shuttle service to get to DTW from Toledo. In the past when I've needed to get there and couldn't find a friend to drop me off I was told that hiring a limo was the cheapest option ($80 + tip in 2007). A cab ride will cost you $130. Does anybody have any other suggestions or knowledge?

The reasons I like to use express:

1. Parking is much cheaper than at DTW.

2. Security has never been busy. I'm usually second or third in line, if not first.

3. You can show up 15 minutes before departure and make flights. Not recommended but always works.

4. I don't like the drive to DTW.

One downside seems to be the return trip. It always seems that I sit for an hour waiting for the shuttle back to express.

I think express makes the most sense for people living south of the airport.

One last thing to consider is that as a community you want that airport open with commercial activity, so use it.

Biggest reason: It costs more to fly out of Toledo since you are usually adding an extra leg only to stop at DTW, Chicago or Cincinnati.
Second biggest reason: I (and several people I know) have been stuck in far-off airports many times because the flight to Toledo was canceled/delayed. Too few flights to rebook on if yours is canceled. At least you can find another same day flight if you are flying into Detroit.

im surprised to hear anyone complain about the drive to DTW. from the border it's only 35 miles and the speedlimit is 70 (which means you can drive close to 80)

For us it is too expensive to fly out of Toledo.We usually go to So. California to visit our son and if we flew from Toledo it would take longer and be more expensive.Also,I can never find any direct flights from Toledo to Los Angeles or John Wayne airports.

We live in South Toledo and the drive to Detroit Metro is only about fifty minutes.The drive to Toledo Express is about twenty minutes.So for a thirty minute longer ride we will save time and money by getting a non-stop flight form DTW to LAX.If we use Toledo we will have to stop twice on our trip to L.A..

Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate it.

I'm with Bobo. I hate the drive back from Metro. I live 50-55 minutes from the Mac Terminal and about 20 minutes from Toledo. If any flight prices are within $100, I'm usually flying out of Toledo as the price and time is a push. Lately, connecting times have been within an hour so there's really no lost time. What I don't think people realize is the cost of parking (if you aren't dropping someone off) is outrageous at Metro. $9/day at Toledo and $20/day at Detroit. And if I fly out of Toledo, I can accrew (sp?) more medallion segments quicker to get to elite status. If I were to fly Toledo each time, I would only need to do 8 round trips a year as opposed to 15 out of Detroit. I am looking at flying to NYC in February and it's only $50 more out of Toledo and the time is negligeble as there are only 45 minute connecting times. With being able to practically walk onto the plane at Toledo, it makes it very appealing to me.

KertapNohj - for that kind of money and time (depending on where you live) why not just fly out of Toledo to Detroit? Most of the time, I'm finding fares within that price range to fly out of Toledo than Detroit.

Ok...a few more follow-up questions:

1) How much more would you be willing to pay to fly out of Toledo (besides flying to Detroit to connect)? $25? $50? or none?

2) Prices being equal (for buckeye here), say you are going to LA, would you fly Toledo if there was a stop over in say Denver or Dallas? Or would you automatically just take the nonstop? Same would apply to places down south like going through Atlanta or Charlotte.

3) When booking flights, does anyone look at Toledo at all?

4) Has anyone flown Allegiant or Direct Air to Florida recently? If so, what were your experiences?

Thank you again in advance for the unscientific information. =]

Do you work for the airport?

Have'nt flown Toledo Express in several years, but we always check to see what the additional cost would be. The cost savings of flying out of DTW istead of Toledo is so much that it negates the hassle of driving to Detroit and paying long term parking. It's ecomomics vs. convenience. Economics wins.

In April '09 our daughter flew from San Diego to Toledo. The cost was about $230.00 more (roundtrip) than if she got picked up in Detroit.

I think the convenience of being able to get off your plane, walk down a flight of steps and out to your car at Toledo Express is worth about 100 bucks or so to me.

I wonder what would happen if Express were to offer free parking? For trips more than a few days would might save money using the airport, which should increase usage. The lost revenue from parking may be made up in ticketing fees.

I love to fly out of Toledo, the problem is there aren't a lot of options available. About 25 years ago we always used Toledo to fly to Florida it was close, convenient and cost effective. I would love to see more flights in and out of Toledo, but I don't see it happening. But I'm not willing to pay hundreds more for the convenience.

I fly by far more for business than I do for pleasure. Our business directs that we fly in the most economical fashion. And the travel software we use to book travel itineraries sets up the airport we leave from - That shuts Toledo down every time.

For pleasure flying, I disagree the $100 vs convenience - I'll take the $100 and blow it on my vacation and have the park n fly bus driver drop me at my bumper and set my bags at my feet. When my wife flys alone they put the bags right in her trunk for her. (for a C note less??? Hell YEAH!)

I live in West Toledo and the difference in driving is appr 15min, half hour to toledo, 45min to DTW.

Unlike Ryan, I have more time than money. I am far more willing to spend the time to travel to/from DTW than take my chances out of Toledo. Flights have been canceled for weather, mechanical problems, or just plain "didn't fill up the flight" out of Toledo.

"I think the convenience of being able to get off your plane, walk down a flight of steps and out to your car ..."

Sounds like the Northwest terminal at Detroit airport. It's amazingly simple and convenient. It's not a hassle to maneuver in.

It's only about a 15 minute longer drive for us to Detroit compared to Toledo Express, but it's an easy highway drive to the Detroit airport. The drive to Detroit airport does not suck.

My wife flies international sometimes for business, and as justphillips mentioned, you can get direct flights to Europe from Detroit. Her domestic business trips are also less of a hassle from Detroit. Like upso said, convenience is king, and that's why he uses Detroit.

When I short-term park at the Northwest terminal, I always find a spot in the covered garage near the terminal door with the moving walkway. And it's a short walk from there to the gate. Nice waiting area and luggage pickup. And it's easy to get out and back on the road home. I'm always impressed at how something so vast can be so user-friendly when I'm at Detroit's Northwest terminal.

Comparing Toledo Express to Detroit Metro for passenger travel seems like a waste of time. People aren't going to change their preferences. And cost and convenience in the flight probably means more than a little drive time from home to the airport. Hell, I knew a programmer from New York City who flew into Cleveland Hopkins because it was cheaper than flying into Toledo and Detroit. He didn't mind the extra drive time to our workplace near Toledo because he saved a lot of money flying into Cleveland. It also depends upon the type of flight and how often one flies. Is it business or pleasure? International or domestic? Who is paying for it? When was the flight booked? Do you fly once every five or ten years or once a year or once a month?

What about the idea that's been suggested before that Toledo Express drop passenger service and focus on cargo and freight and expand in that area?

Detroit was a much better option for my mom when she visited over the summer. She doesn't walk well, so being able to get a direct flight is a big incentive. It was ridiculously easy to pick her up and drop her off at the McNamara terminal, too. And it took significantly less time to get wheelchair service in Detroit than the previous year in Toledo.

-avinsurer

For me it takes around 25-30 minutes to drive to Toledo Express Airport anyways. If I factor in the time it takes to get there, plus waiting, boarding, connecting in DTW or Chicago, just makes more sense to go to DTW. Also, if I don't have a ride to DTW, a taxi to Toledo is still going to cost me a good amount. That's why I almost always just fly out of DTW.

Is there any reason why there isn't a business that shuttles people to DTW? I bet there would be a lot of money there.

I'm a scant 15 min from Toledo Express. If only it was not so costly to get flights I'd never drive to Detroit. I loath the drive and the long, long walks through long term parking.

Upso - Nope, just trying to figure out the way the market is thinking.

Newbie - it's illegal to cancel due to "not enough passengers." I've been out of flights in DTW where flights have been canceled or delayed due to Weather...it happens everywhere. Toledo in October had just 4 canceled flights [granted there are only 7 flights a day ;o)]

My only beef is, why does this city (area) want jobs and are willing to support local things, why don't they support the local airport? I understand not all situations (flying International) are the same, but why don't anyone at least look and take the extra time to possibly support something local? Again, I don't use Toledo exclusively, but it's my first choice any time I'm going somewhere.

Eventually, I would like to start some aviation related business. I'm not really interested in an airline right now, but I'm just wondering why there is a lack of aviation in Toledo. I think I got my answer. Guess that rules this area out.

You are right that canceling flights due to lack of passengers is illegal, but I have always suspected that airlines do it anyway - blaming mechanical problems or something else. I can't prove it, but I have my suspicions...

I would love to fly out of Toledo, but there just are too many more reasons to go to DTW. If they offered more direct flights, it would be a step in the right direction. Right now I don't even comparison shop TOL with DTW, since I have never found a flight that was comparable in price.

"My only beef is, why does this city (area) want jobs and are willing to support local things, why don't they support the local airport?"

Detroit Metro airport is "local" in terms of major transportation when referring to this area as Lake Erie West.

Sustainable competitive features of the Lake Erie West region :

• Time - At the crossroads of the two most heavily traveled roads in North America: I-80/90 and I-75.
• Education - 33 colleges and universities within a one-hour drive.
• Fresh Water - 18% of the world's fresh water supply.
• Transportation - Four international airports within a one-hour drive.
• Market Access - The center of a one-day drive, which reaches 50% of the population of both the U.S. and Canada.

Let's not equate flying local instead of Detroit with buying from a local, independent grocery store instead of driving to Whole Foods in Ann Arbor. Not everyone flies on a regular basis, so the whole buy local thing should focus on smaller businesses that people do use on a regular or semi-regular basis. Compared to my wife, I rarely fly, so I drop more coin each year at Black Diamond than on a plane ticket.

Visit http://toledochooselocal.org

"... but I'm just wondering why there is a lack of aviation in Toledo. I think I got my answer. Guess that rules this area out."

It does NOT rule this area out of aviation when discussing freight.

LEW:Another Story That Should Knock Your Socks Off

The above text came from a 1993 article that appeared in a newsletter called The Toledo Technical Topics, which covered all of the engineering societies in Toledo.

My math tells me that article is around 16-years-old. So if Toledo Express has a "lack of aviation," don't blame people who choose Detroit Metro in 2009 for passenger travel. Toledo Express or the Port Authority or whoever have had many years to adapt.

More info about this area's p-word: "potential."

• On the Move 2007-2035 Transportation Plan
  • LEW Global Logistics Hub
• The Future Of Transportation In Lake Erie West

To avinsurer;We would not mind flying out of Toledo if fares were equal and with just one stop,but I have yet to find the prices to be competive with Detroit.Also,there is sometimes more than one stop to L.A. when using Toledo.We always have someone take us to DTW so parking is not an issue with us.When returning from L.A. we keep in touch with whomever is picking us up via cellphone so there is no extra expense for parking.They wait in the cellphone lot and we call them when we have our baggage so they can just pick us up at the curb.

I agree with jr -- Detroit Metro is our local airport. It is closer (time wise) to Toledo than it is for many Detroit area residents. I've lived in Seattle and Boston and I can get to Detroit Metro faster than I could get to either SeaTac or Logan. Detroit Metro should be touted as an advantage to our region.
I've tried to think of niches that Toledo Express could try to promote. I had thought they could cater to corporate jets. Its so much quicker for the small jets/planes to get in and out of a smaller airport. But Willow Run serves that purpose for the Detroit/Ann Arbor area. I doubt Toledo would be able to draw new business from people already using Willow Run.
I think freight (and/or military) holds the best promise for Toledo Express.

I used to fly a lot before I had kids, but haven't flown much in the past few years.

However, when I do fly, I'd prefer to fly out of Toledo. I don't mind stopping and changing planes in another city. (Actually, sometimes I enjoy seeing airports in other cities just for curiosity sake.)

The convenience of Toledo is a plus - parking is easier/cheaper and there's less congestion to get in and out. Unfortunately, the ticket price is the drawback. I always compare prices between the 2 airports, and its has almost always been cheaper to fly DTW even after factoring in parking differences, etc.

Port authority tries to attract more service to Express Airport http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20100301/NEWS16/3010316/-1/RSS10

I always check Toledo first. It's about the same distance as DTW but the size is so much nicer to deal with. I just flew in yesterday and unfortunately it was via DTW. It's all about the cost for me. I can't pay the extra $220 for the convenience of Toledo.
In the last three years I've never been able to get a direct flight from Toledo to anywhere I need to go for either business or vacation. I've always had to change planes in DTW.

Port Authority should give up the ghost and simply start a low cost shuttle bus service to DTW

Toledo Express is really a beautiful facility, especially in the last 10 years as remodels have made it modern and much cleaner than what I remember it being in the 70's and 80's. I have flown out of Toledo several times and always find it much more relaxing of an experience than DTW.

That being said, there are some major management and airline issues that need to be resolved...quickly.

1.) MANAGEMENT/ATTRACTING AIRLINES: Whomever is in charge at the Port Authority should be fired and prosecuted for what has happened to Toledo Express over the past 10 years. Just dereliction of duty in attracting airlines to Toledo. Sure, some if it is our slow economy, but c'mon. Only 2 major airlines now fly into Toledo, with some specialty carriers (Allegiant, Direct Air) mainly going to Florida (more on this in a moment). If all the P.A. wants to do is make Express a cargo hub, that's fine. But tell us up front so we can quit wasting our time and tax money with passenger service.

Now, you might say "Oh, it's not their fault...Detroit is just so close it gets all the flights." OK, for those that believe that, I want you to take a look at Dayton Intl Airport. Pulling up to the terminal entrance, you'd swear it was Toledo, except there are passengers.

Yes Dayton is a little bigger than we are in the Toledo area (800,000 to 500,000), but if memory serves, there is a huge airport just about an hour away in Cincinnati (N. Kentucky actually). Why isn't Dayton's airport eviscerated like Toledo's? What are they doing to KEEP passenger traffic.

2.) FLIGHT SELECTION: Like I said, only 2 major airlines and a couple of "Florida Only" flights 3 days a week. The destinations are Detroit and Chicago. I guess if you're heading say...oh...EAST your out of luck. Why is it only these two destinations. Delta/Northwest has hubs in Minneapolis, Memphis, Atlanta (I know, that route has been here before), Cincinnati, and other destinations that are mid-range...certainly not just a simple DRIVE away. Going to Chicago on American is somewhat better, but again, if you're final destination is east, this seems to be a waste of time (especially as a business person). Just spend an hour, drive to Detroit, and 1 1/2 hours later, you're in New York City or any of the other major East Coast cities.

Is Toledo now so bereft of business that a daily flight to New York City, Washington DC, Boston, or even resumption of service to Atlanta is completely out of the question? If so, that speaks not to a region that is dying--it's dead.

Maybe the bigger question should be "Why isn't Toledo successful at attracting low-cost carriers who actually PREFER alternate airports?" Southwest is out of the question, but there are others (JetBlue for example) that I"m sure could make a go of it.

Of course, I'm sure there is market research driving some of these decisions and if the airlines were convinced there is a market, they would be at TOL already. So what's really going on--is somebody at the P.A. not doing their job promoting the airport or is there some much political crap behind the scenes that the airlines have decided it's just not worth it?

3.) COST: There is no way I'm paying $100-$150 more for the "convenience" of Toledo Express. When I lived on the West Coast, I remember getting fares that were $20-$40 more, but I ate it and figured that saved my family a drive and I could spring for that. Now it is just ridiculous.

I have to fly to St. Louis soon and here's the difference: DTW-STL (on Delta/Northwest)=$140 (taxes included). TOL-CHI-STL=$250. I'm charged more for a longer trip (because I'll be sitting on my ass in Chicago). Why would I take that deal when I can just do a simple non-stop for over $100 less? I'm not opposed to having a layover, but don't charge me a premium for it!

Sorry for the long post--you asked for 2 cents and I wrote at least 5 cents worth. But I wish nothing but the best for Toledo Express and hope it can pull out of its nosedive.

When do most plane accidents occur? On takeoff and landing. I'll take the direct flights every time.
Its all about the odds.

I live in Point Place, so it's only about 10 minutes longer to drive to DTW. Plus, there are a million times more flights out of DTW, and with the new terminals it's a breeze.

The bottom line, as already noted, is Detroit offers a variety for direct flights. When I fly somewhere, I want to get there asap, not wait around on stopovers.

History lesson: Toledo Municipal Airport south of the city was "The" main airport for Toledo until Toledo Express was built. Toledo Express was a great idea for it's time. It was the direction in which Toledo metropoliton area was growing. The bomb on the whole idea was when unknowingly to Toledo, Detroit Metro was on the boards and then built. And.... Toledo Express instantly became obsolete. I believe for many years, the main financial supporter for Toledo Express has been the Ohio Air National Guard. The fact is, Toledo Express is just too small and in the wrong location.

Last time I flew out of Toledo Express was 2007 for a trip to Hilton Head. Short layover in Cincinnati but priced right.

All other travel is out of Detroit. AS stated more direct flights, options, price, etc.

Unless you are flying a discount charter airline, Toledo is not an option.

We always check airfares through Toledo Express when we plan a trip. I would prefer to start and end our trips close to home, and parking in Detroit really adds up. If air fare is within $100 of the Detroit option, I will always take Toledo. If it's within $125, we will at least discuss it before taking the cheaper route. More than that, it's Detroit.

It's worth checking Toledo prices every time, because we have inexplicably come across airfares where it's been equal to or cheaper than the Detroit route ... wish that would happen every time!

avinsurer, are you aware of the plan to get fresh flower cargo through Toledo Express? There has been some press coverage about creating the infrastructure to make that happen.

They should do something service wise out at the airport, valet parking, free parking, not sure how they will ever truely compete with Detroit on direct flights. Pretty bad when the local politicians dont use Toledo for all their travel.

I guess i'd like to ask if anyone knows why Toledo (Metcalf Field) Airport was never positively developed. I would think that today, this a much better location for expansion and growth. It's funny that when Toledo Express was built (around 1954), that area was a swamp and in the middle of no where. Now, I've heard of people complaining about the noise which is usually a death blow to any airport expansion or success.

I used Toledo to fly one of the cheap "Direct Air" flights to Florida a month ago. Sure, it didn't drop me in the city I was traveling to, but I was planning on renting a car anyway and it was only 45 minutes drive to my destination.

But like most of the above posters, most of my travel is out of Detroit because I am usually pressed for time and cannot deal with the extra leg of a trip to go from Toledo to either Chicago or Detroit before going to where I need to be. It's pointless... and the drive to and from DET is not much more than getting over to Toledo.

If Toledo could get JetBlue or something similar to offer cheap, regular flights to NYC (or Newark) I would be flying out of Toledo much more often. But until that happens... sorry!

We used to sit on the lawn and have Fried Chicken from their restaurant in early 60's....Perhaps the first KFC Fly-In would be a useful addition?

Example of how easy Detroit Metro is to fly.
My plane landed at 9:50 PM. Arrived at gate
at 9:55 PM. I was home at 10:45 PM.

"avinsurer, are you aware of the plan to get fresh flower cargo through Toledo Express? There has been some press coverage about creating the infrastructure to make that happen."

Yeah there was talk of it, but I don't think they are doing much with regards to it. It would have been better to build it over by BAX to allow for them to transport the cold storage stuff.

I guess I've been lucky. Last 5 places I have gone I have used TOL-DTW-XXX and back. All connections have been less then an hour. All flights have been less then $500 (usually booked less then two weeks to departure). I get off of a plane and I'm home within 20 minutes at the most. Takes about 15 minutes more catching the Detroit-Toledo leg. I guess I'm out of the ordinary that I don't mind it.

While a lot of people think the airport should be closed to passengers and focused on cargo, that isn't what should happen. When the FAA awards money for improvements or rehabilitation, the awards are more heavily based on passenger enplanements as they get more revenue from them. The trickle down effect is enormous as in order to do construction work at the airport. You need various jobs from actual constrution to the architects to the consulting firms. All of those jobs are based locally....just saying.

I'm not trying to get everyone to fly out of Toledo, that's impossible. I think at least a little support could go a long ways to try and bring in those non-stop direct flights that everyone ones. One thing the airlines look at when flying especially jetBlue or AirTran is what kind of community support they will receive. They obviously know the community won't support it.

To gunz 1.... You are quite correct about the Chicken Dinners. It was family style and the restaurant was operated by Gladiaux. Gladiaux had the city pretty much locked up in those years. Including the Turnpike Plazas. The Airport family style dinners were the best...

Toledo recently said it needs to "brand its image". It's really no longer the "Glass Capital" it once boasted to be. What it is, indeed, is a port to the world and a hub to the many spokes pointing to cities with substantial populations. If I was to brand this city I would work towards that idea and make it the best port it could be. My question is why is the airport so far away from the waterway that helped make this city? Wouldn't it be practical and most of all marketable to have all forms of transportation (water, air, rail, highway) converge in the same area? Imagine the companies that would be attracted to that model!

shortstuff, Metcalf is a short distance south of Toledo Overseas Terminal.

True...but I was thinking even closer than that to the actual waterway. Could the Eastside handle the heavy traffic of a major airport should Metcalf expand? Probably not...look at the uproar when Burlington came to TOL. Remember Carty's suggestion: have the deaf people move there. What a goof.

From today's Toledo Blade: Delta To Drop Detroit, But Add Twin Cities

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100804/NEWS24/100809872

According to the article, Toledo now has only 5 daily passenger flights--2 Delta (soon-to-be to Minneapolis) & 3 American Eagle (Chicago). Pathetic.

Northwest Ohio has over 1 million people. Some of them have jobs. Some of them even have disposable income for leisure travel. Discount carriers target smaller regional airports for service. Yet somehow, TOL can't get any other carriers, nor any carriers willing to go EAST to Boston, NY, Baltimore, Philly, Washington...

Maybe Toledo/Lucas county should stop funding the airport and start funding a high speed rail to DTW.

I like the high speed rail concept

High Speed rail will NEVER happen here. Too expensive and no demographic to support it.

Old...it's a many different combinations of things. To me, it has a lot to do with the way the Port actually markets the airport and somewhat unwilling to think or act outside of the box.

Stop funding and put the people who work for BAX out of a job? Stop funding and let the 180th go somewhere else? The reality is, the airport is going to be there no matter what. To close it to passenger use would be the wrong thing to do unless cargo picks up a trifold. The airport gets three times more funding through passengers then it does cargo.

But....there is some good news. Fares to the west coast out of Toledo have dramatically come down to levels comparable to DTW.

City American Delta
Seattle, WA $360 $360
Portland, OR $392 $241
San Francisco, CA $360 $360
Los Angeles, CA $370 $370
Orange County, CA $356 $356
Phoenix, AZ $320 $320
Las Vegas, NV $414 $414
Denver, CO $280 $280
Dallas, TX $320 $320

-Av

"High Speed rail will NEVER happen here. Too expensive and no demographic to support it."

I wonder how many people commute from Toledo to the Detroit area for work. I would imagine it's a decent number. More than the amount of people who would use a high speed rail to DTW on a daily basis, I'd think.

AV, thanks for the update. I should think that for national security purposes, it would be advisable to have several airports like Toledo Express available in case there's an ashy volcanic event that shuts down some other places temporarily.

AV--thanks for the info. Nice to see TOL trying to stay competitive.

Still, it is silly not having any flights east of Toledo.

Old - I agree...It's going to take outside of the (Port) box thinking in order to get something here. I personally would go after like United Express to Washington DC. From there you could connect to anywhere on the east coast and southeast, plus a ton of international connections. I still smell something fishy that they couldn't get anyone to fly the Toledo-NYC route when they had a $600,000 grant from the feds.

I don't expect anyone to understand outside of the aviation industry, but I think an issue is they don't have an Aviation Authority running the airport full of aviation professionals. The Port has an airport committee that has Port Board members on it. You look at places like Columbus or Akron, they have their own airport authorities running the show. Working with the Port lately, I fully understand why it's a struggle at the airport.

-AV