He had to see that nobody would support this. Still, he wants to make us pay for other things, which are the same proposals Carty asked for that were denied.
Comments ... #
Heh, at least he isnt pulling what Chicago did...a tax on...candy.
That will happen soon enough everywhere. They have already determined what constitutes "food" (amount of flour, etc.) and candy is not going to be in that category much longer. I don't have a problem with that at all. It's not like people need Skittles to get through dinner.
From the Blade story:
That makes Bell worse than Carty. In 2009, Carty asked city council to reduce the tax reciprocity by 50 percent, and city council rejected the idea. So will council now approve Bell's complete elimination of the tax reciprocity? Probably.
Looks like slick, slimeball politics by Bell. Propose a .25 percent income tax increase that must be approved by the voters, and then change to eliminating the tax reciprocity that only needs approval by council. And by dropping the .25 percent income tax increase idea, Bell looks like a hero.
Well played, Mr. Bell. It's amazing how these clowns look good before getting elected, and then they quickly become asswipes once in office. That's why people don't vote.
From March 2009, councilman Collins said:
In 2009, the Blade editorial board also supported Carty's plan to reduce tax reciprocity by 50 percent. Did Pittsburgh ring Bell's bell and get him to agree to a 100 percent reduction in the tax reciprocity?
Some Toledoans have the guts to live in Toledo and the audacity to work outside Toledo, so they will now have to pay more taxes to a city that has been losing population for 40 years. This really makes Toledo more attractive to those living and working outside Toledo.
Feb 21, 2009 Toledo Blade story titled Toledo may eliminate tax reciprocity :
"Perrysburg has a much lower tax rate and I still write the city of Toledo a $400 a check every year, which is the difference to make me whole with Toledo's [income tax] rate." The Perrysburg rate is 1.5 percent, while Toledo's income tax rate is 2.25 percent.
Currently, city residents working in other places that have income taxes receive a 100 percent credit for taxes paid to those respective cities. That means they pay Toledo the difference, if any. Without that credit, those residents would have to pay Toledo's 2.25 percent on top of the taxes withheld by the community where they work.
Mr. Finkbeiner wants those residents to get credit for just half of what's paid to the other city.Under this proposal, a Toledoan making $36,000 and working in a city with a 1.5 percent tax rate would pay an additional $270 in Toledo. If the same person worked in a city with a 2.25 percent tax rate, it would mean an additional $405 to Toledo.
If they eliminate the tax credit, wouldn't just give those Toledoans incentive to move out to the suburbs where they already work/pay taxes?
Do you really think people will put their homes up for sale, go through the hassle of selling in a down market, pull their kids out of school and move to the 'burbs just to save $400 a year?
Howzabout we all just pay our fair share and quit bitching about it?
"... wouldn't just give those Toledoans incentive to move out to the suburbs where they already work/pay taxes?"
With Bell's plan to reduce the tax reciprocity by 100 percent plus passage of TPS's .75 percent earned income tax proposal:
- a Toledoan making $36,000 a year and working in a city with a 1.5 percent tax rate would pay an additional $810 a year.
- a Toledoan making $36,000 a year and working in a city witha 2.25 percent tax rate would pay an additional $1080 a year.
"Do you really think people will put their homes up for sale, go through the hassle of selling in a down market, pull their kids out of school and move to the 'burbs just to save $400 a year?"
Ah, yes. People have been doing it for years in Toledo. Are you aware of the population numbers for Toledo?
And genius, for some of us, we no longer have kids in school, and we have a six-figure household income, and we live in Toledo and work outside the city, so it will cost us a lot more than $400 year. And isn't easier for renters to move away?
From last year's Blade story about Carty's 50 percent tax reciprocity reduction plan:
So I assume under Bell's 100 percent tax reciprocity reduction plan, the above household would pay $3,000 more a year.
So the answer could be a definite "Yes" to the question about some people leaving Toledo, especially for those Toledo fence-setters who have been thinking about moving out of the city for a while. And why would knowledgeable people who live outside the city want to buy a home in Toledo if they work outside Toledo? How does Bell's plan help reverse Toledo's population decline?
For those who rent month-to-month, it will be a little easier to move out of the city. Homeowners will need more time to sell their home with Toledo's housing market, but that may depend upon where the homeowner lives. Some areas of Toledo have a better housing market than other areas of the city. And can always rent the house, pay some taxes to the city and county, but bring in some money too. Homes for rent get occupied quickly in our area of town.
Last spring, the Toledo Blade editorial board wrote an op-ed saying those who threatened to move out of Toledo because of Carty's plan to reduce the tax reciprocity by 50 percent would not be able to leave because of Toledo's bad housing market. The Blade took joy in Toledo's decay, and the fact that homeowners are trapped in Toledo, so it's OK to strap those who work outside the city with more taxes. I'll track down that op-ed.
But trapped Toledo homeowners paying hundreds or even thousands of more dollars a year in taxes will make personal budget changes to help offset the tax increases.
In 2009, Toledo city council defeated Carty's plan to reduce the tax reciprocity by 50 percent. And now, Bell wants to reduce it by 100 percent. This could be a negotiating ploy. City council may compromise and agree to a 50 percent reduction. Carty's plan.
Updating the numbers from last year's Blade story:
So under Bell's plan, I assume it would be $540 and $810 in additional taxes respectively. And if TPS's .75 percent earned income tax passes on May 4, this $36k earner who works outside the city would pay an additional $270.
Toledo's population numbers
1920 : 243,164
1930 : 290,718
1940 : 282,349
1950 : 303,616
1960 : 318,003
1970 : 383,818
1980 : 354,635 -7.6%
1990 : 332,943 -6.1%
2000 : 313,619 -5.8%
July 2002 : 309,106
July 2004 : 304,734
July 2005 : 301,285 - 301,728
July 2006 : 297,806 - 298,446
July 2007 : 295,029
Toledo Blade Report (PDF) - Declining enrollment in the Toledo Public Schools district
TPS's declining enrollment is not all due to parents moving their kids to private schools and charter schools. It's also due to Toledo's declining population.
The only way to increase taxes is on consumption, such as cigarettes, alcohol, and other commodiites. The hotel tax idea has been done also. The general public is fed up with additional propert, income or sales tax.
I agree that imposing the reciprocity change will drive more people out of the city limits.
Are you aware of the population numbers for Toledo?
Of course I am. But I also think more of those folks left Toledo due to lack of employment than left due to high taxes.
Its a lose lose situation. Raising revenue on the backs of those already here isn't gonna do anything but lower the number of folks here and lower revenues to a breaking point. Cutting costs and leaving the rate alone is all they can reasonably do, but its unpopular. The folks running the show for the past 50 years have really screwed the pooch, and gave away the farm.
If the state does come in can they throw out the union contracts?
Bell should of only gave those 2 workers 5% increases, could of justified it and promised future increases over the next few years if the situation got better.
Anniecski says.....Howzabout we all just pay our fair share and quit bitching about it?
i simply don't see this as "everyone paying their fair share". i see this as a small group getting gashed.
meanwhile, bell is already backing off from some of the cuts he had previously proposed.
Not sure how this works, but how would if affect people who work in Toledo but live outside of it? Right now I'm getting stuck paying both Toledo at I believe 2.25% and Perrysburg.
I live in Michigan and they will give me credit for any taxes paid in the city of Toledo, I thought the other local cities in the region had Reciprocity with Toledo, meaning that Toledo gave you credit for paying taxes in those other cities as well as the other cities gave you credit for paying Toledo city tax.
The region's biggest population gains continue to be in Monroe County, which has had a 5.5 percent increase in residents since 2000.
Wood County gained 2.4% since 2000.
The Census data seem to indicate that the surrounding counties, including Toledo's suburban communities, are absorbing the people who left Lucas County. Bedford Township is one of Toledo's largest suburbs and among the fastest-growing areas of Monroe County.The Census Bureau also reported increases of 3.3 percent and 1.5 percent in Lenawee and Hillsdale counties, respectively. To the south, Wood County grew by 3,122 people, or 2.6 percent, and Hancock County gained 2,529 people, or 3.5 percent. Fulton County added 816 residents, a 1.9 percent increase.