Should We Be Recalling Bell (And Maybe Council)

And we should start thinking about how many people should be on the council. Two (with the mayor as tie-breaker)? Three (with the mayor allowed no vote)? 80 (remember the LCRC Central Committee when you want a decision done)? 150 (we could have two councils and co-mayors)?

And maybe this time TBT might actually accomplish something. They certainly made enough mistakes last time. They've got plenty of lead time to actually get their paperwork right.

dude, wtf, are you on crack? 9 weeks????? come on, you know everybody everywhere is in the shitter, give the guy a break. we talk big around here where it's safe, but what would you REALLY do if someone came to your door tomorrow and said, 'your turn to be mayor, you have 9 weeks to fix this shit.'? jeez.

I'm not stupid enough to be mayor. Anyone who chooses to be mayor with the kind of nuts we have crawling out of the woodwork in our politics deserves what happens to him or her. Hopefully, he'll have the sense to resign with the citizens pull their wacky stunts. We can then elect a Republican, and recall him in three months.

I'm not a Bell-supporter, but you really want to replace him with Moody???? LOL of the day!

Find someone that dont want to be mayor and force him into office. Cut Council to 8 with mayor as tie breaker, cut council pay to equal jury duty pay. Divide the city into 8 equal parts based on a map not some goofy jurisdiction based on population. Big circle cut into 8 slices radiating out from downtown. But regardless 9 weeks isn't enough time.

I'd like to give him more time. His plan to raise the refuse fee and eliminate the reciprocity on income tax for those working outside the city are not good ideas during a recession/depression. I think there is still some room to cut expenses.

Just curious -- what did you expect him or anyone to do in 9 weeks? That isn't a rhetorical question either.

I'm certainly not advocating we recall Mayor Bell at this point in time - let's give the guy a chance to try and iron out the mess this city is in. That being said, increasing our refuse fees (anyone remember how the "temporary 3/4%" was supposed to solve all of our financial woes) yet again is ridiculous. So is ending tax reciprocity for those who live in but work outside of Toledo.
But the single most STUPID idea is imposing a tax on entertainment tickets. For crying out loud, that will have a direct impact on venues and businesses already struggling downtown.

Isn't the idea to attract as many people and, therefore, revenue to our downtown attractions?
The Hens season ticket sales are down for the first time in over 20 some years and we want to add a tax on those tickets?

The businesses who depend on the traffic generated by the Mud Hens and the Walleyes will surely suffer as well. This is simply more of the same old, same old kind of thinking that has put this town in such deep fertilizer.

As far as I'm concerned, ANY additional taxes are out of the question. Let's start by getting rid of everything the city does that isn't related to police, fire and road maintenance.

As for the morons on city council, WE can solve that one by voting them out. Same for the Lucas County commissioners. Get rid of 'em and start over. And, for crying out loud Toledo, stop electing people based on last name recognition or because the union you belong to told you to.

Of course, that would actually require Toledoans getting off their collective rear ends and voting - something the majority of the residents of this town can't seem to manage.

actually, foodie, that would require them to get off their collective rear ends and THINK, something else no-one can seem to manage. Apathy is our biggest enemy, always has been. Plus, a little mental depression as well. 'Who cares? why bother?' is an overwhelming obstacle.

and olsendbrdy, way to dodge the question, bud, deftly done. everybody bitches but NOBODY really knows what to do, including you, so give it a rest.

Nana,if I were made mayor I would do the only thing that will get the revenue in line quickly: I would start laying off city workers and administrators. No one wants an additional garbage tax, or any tax. The only other option is to cut costs. After that, I might consider privatizing as many city functions as possible. That might not work, but no future mayor would ever have to hear the complaints of citizens about public employees. Instead, we would be able to hear complaints about how private businessmen (and women) are ripping off the public trust.

Ah yes nana, you are so right. Thinking for one's self seems to be a lost art these days.

It's just so much easier to sit on your duff glued to the boob tube and let someone else do the thinking for you.

"The Hens season ticket sales are down for the first time in over 20 some years and we want to add a tax on those tickets?"

And Toledo's population has been declining for over 40 years, yet city government wants to raise taxes. TPS's enrollment has also been declining for many years, and TPS wants to raise our taxes.

"As far as I'm concerned, ANY additional taxes are out of the question."

Yep. Raising taxes will not entice citizens and businesses to move into Toledo. Toledo government, TPS, and voters have raised our taxes in the past, and what has it got us? The need for more taxes. In two or three years, city government and TPS will be wanting to raise taxes again because of their ineptitude. It feeds the downward spiral of the city.

Toledo government and TPS should hack to the bone, leaving only the bare necessities. Consider it a "temporary" condition. Right? We get told taxes are temporary even though they never are, so why not say the brutal cuts to city government and TPS are only temporary, and when conditions improve, both entities can add back their bloat.

I suppose that if the revenue is not found to keep TPS the way it is, or better it, then parents should consider moving to other school districts. Toledo should be left with the "poor": the elderly on pensions and Social Security,those on public assistance and those they subsist on (fast food workers, health workers subsidized by Medicaid and Social Security, and discount stores), and the "poor" students who will fill the schools. Those of us left will have to make the best of it.

The budget needs balanced and the mayor is asking for a trash fee and entertainment tax. I originally thought, yes, let's pay it, get over this and then when done remove it. And then I realized that government has lied for so long that not only will they take both of these for now, but find an excuse to keep them even after this financial crisis is over.
I just pulled out my pitchfork and have re-oiled my torch. Let's go! Rubble, rubble, rubble......

9 weeks to solve years of problems?

Give the man his fair chance. He didnt make this mess, and lord knows cleaning it up will be a lengthy task.

OhioKimono, but we have to have things in place when we decide on the recall. Look how badly TBT screwed up last time.

brdy, yer pulling our collective leg here, right? you really can't believe that a recall is the way to go, can you?

Nana, just see how we're feeling come April.

Toledo City Council offers alternatives to Mayor Bell's budget, http://www.wtol.com/global/story.asp?s=12095475

Mike Collins recommends an incentivized retirement program for city employees.

Rob Ludeman wants to privatize the solid waste division and the waste water treatment plant. I wonder how we would work with private enterprise on the waste water treatment plant. Would we all have to have meters put on our sewers (like we now have for the water coming in), or would the city pay some kind of fixed rate for all its citizens. It might be a real money maker for someone. This might help in the future.

I am reading a book titled "Garbage Land". The author spent a couple of years obsessively studying her garbage and where it goes. One engineer said it made no sense to take clean water, and use it flush our waste back into the water (and spend the time cleaning it).

An alternative, composting toilets, http://www.comparethebrands.com/compare/134 , are expensive, but once we privatize the waste water plant and the company raises the rates, perhaps treatment of waste at the individual level might be more economical.

Now getting rid of the solid waste department should be easy. We've just switched to the new equipment, and other than taking a loss in the "fire sale", we should have no trouble.

And next year we can think of some other departments to sale to take care of that short-fall when it comes.

OSEB, I'm never gonna feel that a recall is the answer, especially after only 9 weeks in the job, no matter how many Aprils go by. You can be a tool of radio stations needing ratings all you want, but it's a stupid idea.

interesting that this financial debacle wasn't seen with the prior administration by OSEB, but all of a sudden OSEB has the all the solutions, which include recalling the mayor after a mere 9 weeks.

A majority of the posters on this board called this disaster as it was happening while Carty was in charge and OSEB was silent.

http://toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/34789#34830

I don't think Carty should step down. I would be disappointed if he did. He is combative, and will assume that this minority of voters will be overwhelmed at the polls by his supporters. If he loses it will be interesting to see how soon after the first year there is a recall effort against his replacement.

This could get to be a regular effort. In fact, since we will be doing this on a regular basis in the future perhaps we could do away with recalls, and have mayoral elections every year.

posted by oldsendbrdy on Apr 20, 2009 at 09:45:17 pm #

The dude puts the wishy in washy.

Just curious -- what did you expect him or anyone to do in 9 weeks? That isn't a rhetorical question either.

posted by corky on Mar 04, 2010 at 08:03:37 am

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What I didn't expect him to do was propose to raise taxes.

Brian, I've gotten used to the recall. It is the answer to all problems in Toledo. Call for increased taxes for revenue. Recall the mayor. Lay off the police to balance the budget. Recall the mayor. It is so much simpler to do recalls than to accept what the mayor contemplates. By using recalls we put the work of balancing the budget off in the great beyond.

Besides I'm just getting a jump on things. We want to have TBT prepared this time. No sense having a hang-fire from the right on this.

Am I the only one that can't follow your posts?

So nine weeks is not enough time. I was being facetious. I agree. But what would cause people to want to recall Bell. If he could not get the public employee unions to accept less pay and benefits would that arouse the public to recall him. If he decided to let things slide, and the state took over the city's finances would he be held accountable for decisions the state makes that he does not. I'm curious. Why does anyone think that this mayor or his government will secure the changes he is requesting?

I'm sorry Ryan. What confuses you.

No, Ryan's not alone.

What confuses you, toledolen_

People need to stop saying "balance the budget" and start saying "CUT the budget". The former assumes that raising taxes and fees and fines will achieve the balance.

There are not a lot of options. City Gov't must make their own staffing concessions and cuts.

Taxes are bound to get creative and the proposaed entertainment tax is an example.

The tax base is in shambles, not enough money coming in. There will be no population explosion within the city limits, and there is not going to be a line of new businesses to open here.

The only new tax dollars of substance will come from the casino.

Hoops, those tax dollars won't help us this year. And maybe not next year. When construction starts I guess we may be able to tax the income of the construction workers. But that will go away after construction to be replaced by the low-paying jobs of the majority of the casino's workers.

Is it time to recall Mayor Bell yet? Perhaps Moody can step forward to lead us into the new millennium. We need something to divert us from the problems of this city.

I'm not the biggest Bell supporter but he has at least tried to stand up to the unions. More than any of the past bozos we have had for the last 12 years.

Asking for a recall is a bit much.

I think he has done a fair job...especially considering the bag of shit the Finkbeiner administration passed along.

Let's see if all the talk about concessions from various city unions proves again this year only to be talk.

Oldendbdly is right. The first thing you would have to do is layoff a bunch of people starting with administrators and redo the labor contracts. How many holidays do city workers get off,
13-15? Allowed to accumulate sick days? End that. Curtail all the bullshit overtime that is paid out. How much does it cost a year to have all those "city vehicles" you see one person driving around all the time? repairs, fuel and insurance. Only a hand full of people should have a take home vehicle.
Until the above steps are corrected, nothing will change.

What should be the focus is organizing and informing as many people as we can to vote against the .75% income tax.

That will remove the funding and FORCE more prudent spending by city officials.

Forget about recalling the mayor and council people and start speaking to people about voting against the .75% income tax.

Ignore the threats, the lies, and the propaganda. Be willing to live without certain services before the adjustments the public sector unions will be forced into making.

If Kasich can remove binding arbitration, the public unions will not have the bargaining power they have had for nearly 30 years.

In 9 weeks, Bell has had plenty of chances to make up a list of particular departments and personnel to cut from the city ranks, all of which represent excess that cannot be afforded in a time of economic collapse. Once compiled, the next thing to do is print out some pink slips and supply some packing boxes for desk contents. Two weeks, maximum.

But now, Bell even has a "deputy mayor for external development" or something like that. That guy should have been laid off immediately, since he serves no rational function whatsoever. So Bell obviously has no intention of cutting costs. That only leaves raising taxes and fees.

Well, Toledo, you dumbshits: You elected another political insider who much like Ford, was sent here as a covert operative of Columbus Inc. So he's doing the same tactics, following the same strategy of keeping the lid on for as long as possible, to keep you from figuring out exactly how fucked you really are.

And so I only agree with 6th_Floor about what our strategy should be. Money drives this system. Stop the flow of money. Vote down all taxes and fees where possible.

However, if voting would have solved anything, Toledoans would have already put into place politicians who are fiscal conservatives. So although our advice is sound, it won't be put into action by apathetic and pathetic Toledoans.