Don't Worry About Parks Going To The Dogs

What color is the sky in your world?

Ryan, I guess it is grey (like most winter days in Toledo). I just find it ironic that people have fought for a dog park only to see the parks closing for lack of funds.

And I bet that Bell will not be out mowing lawns like that nut Carty did last summer. I certainly won't be. That's what I pay my taxes for.

Ironic that the taxes you pay for- which includes parks and pools- will not be used for these services. We pay taxes for the zoo, the museum, garbage collection and that silly so-called science museum downtown. Parks are an integral part of the livability of a city. Too bad they are always the first to be taken away when someone can't balance a budget. Cities and schools hold these services for ransome way too many times in order to force voters who care about these services to pay higher taxes. Toledoans and those in Lucas County have already approved higher taxes for these services and they should not be cut, period!

Good luck,golddustwoman, many on this board do not agree with you. The first things they want to see removed from services are parks and swimming pools.

And how wonderful will that be. So, where do local kids and teens have to go to when school is out? Oh, yes, the mall! I pay for those services and I want them, period. I unfortunately also pay for that science thing downtown and I don't want it but I would never force that to go- somebody out there wants that service. No wonder Toledo is always high in the "worst" lists.... If you can't provide basic needs for families (parks, pools, etc.) then why should others be attracted to this city and move here? Frustrating! I think I will move to Vancouver! LOL

Unfortunately, Golddustwoman, the Imagination Station is being paid for with a levy on our real estate taxes. If this economy does not begin to provide near full employment I doubt people will vote for it next time. The Imagination Station may not be a problem for you and others in a couple of years. That seems a long time now, but it is a short time in the life of this city.

I agree with you oldsendbrdy. I don't have a problem with that museum other than the fact that we pay for it and there it is, for anyone to use.
Conversly, we pay for pools, parks, garbage services, and now, because some idiot(s) can't balance a budget, the very services that we as voters have said we want are being held up for ransome probably for a near future levy request or, in the case of garbage service, we will have to pay even more for.
This dumbass, backwater city still has not figured out that people with families, and even some young professionals without kids, want certain services! They want greenspace to enjoy, a place for their kids to swim and run around, and for their garbage to be picked up. They may even want access to Imagination Station, the zoo and the museum. These things make for a more well rounded, family friendly community. The more people who move here, the more taxes this city can suck up!
Here is a thought... Why don't we cut some redundent positions... Do we really need PR people for the museum and the parks? Doesn't the mere fact that we have them create enough PR? If we want to highlight these great services, isn't there someone at Government Center who can add these things to an informational brochure- wouldn't that be enough PR? With the money from those salaries, couldn't we fix and fill pools and keep park services going? Just a thought....

Who needs pools. The first hot day this summer, people will open fire hydrants and play in the street. TV News will cover it just like they do every year.

Similar to the "blizzard" stories we get every winter and we have to show people buying snow shovels at the Andersons.

If I recall correctly, with the exception of some programs which receive funding from the Ohio Arts Council, the Museum is a self-sufficient entity, operating primarily from an endowment from the Libbeys. I don't believe it receives any city tax money for operation. Then again, it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong... today.

You can't actually 'close' the parks. They are physically open to the public, and in fact since they are public land devoted to that purpose -- meaning they are OUR property -- we can still use them. Any police that try to put a stop to that should be roundly smacked down in court.

Stop mowing the parks. We don't need to mow the plains of the nation, do we?

The pools are a different story. They are fenced and require close maintenance in order to be usable (i.e. water treatment). I say drain the water and then lock the fences.

Of course, the City of Toledo is sitting on many tens of millions in its investment portfolio. So this "budget shortfall" is expressly artificial and there's no real financial need to close such things. But I support closing down artificial and farcical government services. Nobody should have tasked the government to mow vast acreage of lawns and to provide loss-taking pools.

If there's some fear of the inner cities rioting from a lack of water playgrounds, it's a simple and cheap matter to setup sprinkler parks based upon our existing water lines. These sprinkler parks could be established in empty lots in partnership with local community orgs, so that the water expended can be also used to irrigate vegetables and flowers in community gardens.

Too bad Bell and his ilk are not real managers of public resources. So stuff like that will never happen.

GZ, I wonder if their investment portfolio was cut in half like mine was. Maybe they had better luck. Mine was invested in stock rather than more conservative U.S. government bonds.

Note well that the current state of taxation in the city implies that Toledo was unlivable back before 1980. That's rankly absurd. We need to cut taxes and stop assaulting property owners and income earners.

OSEB, the last I heard, the portfolio was over $200 million, and grew by $7 million in the last reporting period. Considering that, the alleged $48 million deficit is a joke.

Remember the ESM farce. "Hawkey arrived in Toledo as the hand-picked candidate of then-Mayor Donna Owens, a Republican. His predecessor had lost $19 million in city money that had been placed illegally in a Florida real estate brokerage that went belly-up." Donna Owens was the Republican Mayor then. She could blame the city manager.

Wow, that's a lot money. We should dump our shares and see what we get for them. I wonder if someone will pay $200 if we dump at once.

Reminds me of the old joke. "I'm a millionaire... though last year I was a billionaire". So if the portfolio is $200 million, and we put $300 million into the fund we didn't do so well.

Gold, I could not find any positions listed as public reations or PR. The Office of Mayor lists two assistant operating officers, p.382 of the pdf, http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/Portals/0/2010+Proposed+Budget.pdf , and .80 of a Chief of Staff. They might do the job. They're pay comes out of the general fund.

There is .20 of a public services officer 2 paid out of the general fund on page 385.

There is a public services officer 3 paid out of the engineering services org (3500) through the (400capital improvements fund. That org also has a park planner who we may not need soon.

OSEB, the point I was trying to make was that the city is crying poor, yet is sitting on what's effectively a savings account at 4 times the level of the budget deficit. If you tried to obtain welfare with those sorts of numbers, the LCJFS would tell you to get lost.

No government has the right to hoard our money, and it becomes doubly offensive when it then cries poor and demands more of our money upon the instance of a budget deficit.

"OSEB, the point I was trying to make was that the city is crying poor, yet is sitting on what's effectively a savings account at 4 times the level of the budget deficit."

Maybe they are saving it for a rainy day.

^ Newsflash: The city is flooded.

As someone else commented, I believe that the Toledo Museum of Art is not funded by public funds. I recall discussion on television, once, that they had mulled the idea of charging admission, but they put that idea aside because it was against the founders intentions. This is what they state on their web page...

"Thanks to the benevolence of its founders, as well as the continued support of its members, the Toledo Museum of Art remains a privately-endowed, non-profit institution and opens its collection to the public—free of charge—six days a week, 309 days a year."

GZ got my curiosity peaked about a savings account 4 times the level of the budget deficit. This document, http://www.ci.toledo.oh.us/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zIkaZq7Nr-s%3D&tabid=226&mid=1003 , p.39 bottom, showed that most of that savings (unless I got it wrong) comes from deposits and investments with an average maturity of 1.7 years. On page 28 the city expected to spent $7.6 million in replacements to the water system and $5.46 million in improvements and extensions. That was last year, and the money came mostly from the bonds that came to maturity. Taking a significant portion of the $195.4 million we had then to pay down the deficit would have resulted in additional reduction in the funds for water lines and filtration. But maybe that is more acceptable than a budget deficit. After all it is only our drinking water.

On page 59 f the above document it shows that our total debt service is supposed to be $20,420,877.21. Now some debt service is what is called "exempt", p.57. Otherwise, our city's debt climbs to $341.116 million. It will not take long to wipe out that $200 million if the bill collectors come calling.

GreenGene - geez, I feel like a schmuck now. I've lived in the area for about 7 years now, and I didn't even realize the Art Museum doesn't charge an admission fee.

I really need to get over there some time. Especially now that my kids are school aged and might be able to appreciate it.

(I suppose that's my defense - when the kids were babies/toddlers, I wouldn't have felt ready to take them to a museum.) :)

I thought the art museum doesn't charge an "admission", but the special attractions have an admission, don't they?

Some of them do, some don't, Hockeyfan.

The museum is free. There are special events that charge a nominal fee... like a few bucks. But otherwise admission is totally free.

http://www.toledomuseum.org/visit

Also...

"Thanks to the benevolence of its founders, as well as the continued support of its members, the Toledo Museum of Art remains a privately-endowed, non-profit institution and opens its collection to the public—free of charge—six days a week, 309 days a year."

OH, just saw greengene's post... hah!

OSEB, they are keeping a couple hundred million of OUR MONEY on hand just to make sure they can fund their little projects? And you approve of that?

Well, if you don't see what's intrinsically wrong with that, what you must see as wrong is that the government wants to raise taxes and fees to meet this B.S. shortfall.

The Toledo Art Museum is awesome. I have been to a great many art Museums (Chicago, L.A., etc). Thogh our Art Museum is smaller, the collection is highly respectable and as good as any major cities collection. The Toledo AM also has a number of free demos such as the glass blowing that are really cool.

In addition, admission is free. They do ask $5 for parking. to me, that's nothing. The Chicago museum is $17 parking, and almost $20 a head to enter.

GuestZero, right on about the sprinkler parks! I think well-designed water features are better for cooling off, and they look more attractive. Millenium Park (Chicago) has an awesome splash feature. The aquarium in Chattanooga had a wandering cement creek for wading.

Maybe the city could sell one of the pools to a neighborhood group, which could then run it as a profitable venture to teach business and maintenance skills to young people.