Why the Animus Against Pit-Bull Dogs?

I don't know but I'm really sick of the Blade shoving this crap down our throats, while licking the ass of Ben Konop.

Ujvagi kinda looks like a pit bull

Because of so many articles like these:
http://globalgrind.com/channel/gossip/content/1520664/Dogs-Chew-Off-Babys-Testicles-WTF/

Also, if you news google "pit bull baby" you get an awful lot of hits:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=p&tbs=nws%3A1&q=pit+bull+baby&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=2f7874af88fd208

http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20100415/NEWS02/100419825/-1/RSS10

Let's let the new dog warden sort all of this out. She's been given a month to settle into her new and highly controversial position. For the blade to be running "hard hitting" articles so soon is inflammatory and does nothing to help the dialog or discourse. Ujvagi is just doing his job.

But yes, as Ryan points out.. some dog breads have the potential (if raised poorly) to be very very dangerous.

Killing an animal that harmed someone is a different case than killing an animal because it either escaped a yard or was abandoned by an owner.

Some people have dogs to protect their property rather than have alarm systems or guns. I think that animals raised for this purpose might be inherently vicious (through training) and a danger if they get out of their homes.

So your average pedestrian should carry the risk of being attacked by a pit bull, because someone's home security decided to make a run for it????

Might be able to gleam info from:

Dogster.com --> American Pit Bull Terrier info page --> American Pit Bull Terrier forum Threads: 626 - Posts: 4165

I noticed something called "HA Pit Bulls." The HA means Human Aggressive. It seems that HA Pit Bulls should be euthanized.

PitBullLovers.com --> Human Aggression and Pit Bulls

I wonder if the Lucas County dog warden's office has "test" to determine if a pit bull should be labeled Human Aggressive, so that once a dog is labeled HA, it's euthanized.

Why has there been not ONE SINGLE comment or point in these news reports about OWNERS that RAISE these dogs in that thuggish type of lifestyle? No owners get penalized for the behavior of these animals?

This is the single greatest wtf I have found in researching 'pit bull baby'. Warning dont read on if you are the 'sensative type' - the following material is fairly gross.

http://www.wgrz.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=49447
'DNA Proves Pitbull Sexual Attack Possible'

Lockport Police say DNA results show no human involvement in the sexual assault of a two year old boy July 8th.

Jessica Weinstein: "So this proves that it really can happen?"

Chief Neil Merritt, Lockport Police: "I don't think that there's any doubt because there's a number of witnesses, because this occurred inside, then the dog ran out onto the porch."

The mother told Lockport Police that she left her two year old unattended for a short time and after hearing the baby scream, she ran to see what was wrong.

When she got in the room, she told Lockport Police the dog, named "Bear", had sodomized the toddler. The mother screamed, scaring the dog out of the house, but the dog was still attached to the baby.

One neighbor told 2 On Your Side, she heard the mother screaming "The dog is raping my baby." Neighbors ran to help, but only one man was able to get the dog and child apart.

Anastacio Castillo says "I tried to get the dog away from the baby, the dog was already inside the baby." When the baby was finally free, he was visibly sick. Castillo says the boy was vomiting and bleeding.

The baby was rushed to Women and Children's Hospital where the toddler underwent reconstructive surgery. Hospital officials are no longer verifying that he is a patient there.

PitBullLovers.com --> 10 Easy to Remember Tips for Responsible Pit Bull Owners

A couple of the ten points:

Also, Myths Surrounding the American Pit Bull Terrier

A couple of the debunked myths:

"I wonder if the Lucas County dog warden's office has "test" to determine if a pit bull should be labeled Human Aggressive, so that once a dog is labeled HA, it's euthanized."

Well, we know that in the past, the LCDW has conducted a temperament test on dogs -- remember the disgust many people felt finding out that part of the test was to grab a dog by its genitals to see if it would react?

We also know that it doesn't matter whether or not a pit bull passes the test. They are put down regardless.

"Why has there been not ONE SINGLE comment or point in these news reports about OWNERS that RAISE these dogs in that thuggish type of lifestyle? No owners get penalized for the behavior of these animals?"

EXACTLY, and thank you.

I feel that very, very few dogs are inherently, genetically aggressive and mean. If you've got a vicious dog, it's the owner's fault.

I see every so often in the Blade's reports of "Dogs Killed" at the LCDW dogs that were surrendered by owners because they "turned aggressive" or were "mean." I want to ask those owners -- Did you socialize your dog? Exercise it? Get it proper vet care? Train it to follow a few simple commands? Or did you throw it in the back yard for hours and hours and at a time, unsupervised, yell at it, kick it, fight it, neglect its health ... ?

Of course, any dog can be vicious, regardless of the breed. We've all seen poodles that "nipped," rottweilers that were snarly, and the like. We had our dear, beloved redbone put down last fall because he had bitten more than once. And yes, he had been trained, socialized, loved, cared for, and all the rest.

Here's what I learned recently: If a dog bites another animal, it is labeled "agressive." If it bites a human, it is labeled "vicious." A dog that is known to be vicious will be put down by the dog warden -- as it should be. Neither the county nor any potential adopter should take on the liability of a dog that would bite a person.

A friend did research on the pit bull law for a class. The difference between this breed and others, she says, is that when it bites, it hangs on. Other dogs will bite and back off.

Seems pit bulls have a reputation...a bad one.

Speak of the devil! Just today in Toledo:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=7387628

Funny, it most often seems to be a pit bull.

I believe Ben Konop has a romantic interest with a member of the Blade's staff. Therefore, he has a direct line to express his interests through the Blade.

"Here's what I learned recently: If a dog bites another animal, it is labeled "agressive." If it bites a human, it is labeled "vicious." A dog that is known to be vicious will be put down by the dog warden"

I don't believe it is that black and white.I had an experience with a dog that I owned a few years back.This dog was a house dog and was never let to run free.She was our home protector and companion.One week we were out of town and my in-laws were staying at my house to watch the kids and the dog.My son invited a friend(teenager) into our house that had never been around our dog.My son went upstairs and left his friend alone in the living room with the dog.His friend started to mess with the dog and was biten on the face and had to have stitches put in at the hospital.The doctor had to report the incident to the dog warden.The warden came to my house to tell me that I had to quarantee the dog for at least ten days and watch for signs of rabies.This visit was already at least eight days after the bite.After the ten days were up they came back and looked at the dog and told me that the dog was just fine but they would have to register her as a vicious dog.There was no talk of putting her down.That was the last I heard from the wardens office.She lived to the ripe old age of thirteen and there were no problems with her other than that one time.I think she was protecting our home from a stranger that did not have the sense to keep his distance from a dog that he did not know.Instead he chose to go after the dog and rough house with him.I think the warden looked at the circumstances and decided on the course of action.

buckeye278, that is probably the way it works. Our dog Bart (he has died since) bit one of my nephews when the boy (who was maybe 6) lunged at him to give him a goodbye hug. We did not report it, but another relative did. The dog was labelled "vicious", and we were warned if it happened again he would be killed. After that the dog never left the yard. We did not want to take a chance that he might react badly during a walk (although he never had before that).

Bart was a mix, but might have been part rat terrier. If he latched onto a toy you could lift him up, and he would not release. We used to have trick where we could would give him a dollar bill to pass to someone. Sometimes he would take it to them, and sometimes he would growl when you tried to get it from him. Then you were out your dollar bill.

"...trick where we could would give him a dollar bill...then you were out your dollar bill."

Ah: you trained him for a future as a politician.

Ba-da-BOOM.

"A friend did research on the pit bull law for a class. The difference between this breed and others, she says, is that when it bites, it hangs on. Other dogs will bite and back off."

Is that a myth?

PitBullLovers.com

Pit bulls were bread to fight and kill.

Pit bulls were bread to fight and kill.

That was around 1850 or so. Things have changed just a little since then. You do keep up, right?

Then you were out your dollar bill.

Unless you had food, that is. Typical with most politicos...

So tell us, this relative that reported your dog to the warden, which side of the lawn are they on?

Doesn't matter, they are still an effective weapon.

One "pit bull" that was not killed was "Amos," who was pictured on the front page of The Blade yesterday being held by Ms. Lyle. She said the brown and white dog was caught running loose and was a gentle dog. Mr. Ujvagi said yesterday Amos would be killed tomorrow at the pound."

WTF? That is very sad. If he is gentle, and his behavior has been tested, what is the problem here? The Blade had a photo of Amos with the new dog warden in their article yesterday.

http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20100414/NEWS16/100419890

Maybe if enough people e-mail the commissioners and Ujvagi urging them to save Amos, he might be saved.

http://www.co.lucas.oh.us/Directory.aspx?did=3

Madjack, she is still walking around, but the kids missed walking with Bart. This happened around the time I was taking the little ones over to the playground at the Aurora Gonzalez Center on South Avenue. Bart was watching them slide, climbed the steps, and came down the slide. He started doing it everytime we went over. The kids missed that when we decided not to take any chances with him.

Pit bulls are genetically very strong, especially with their jaws. But, any dog of that size can cause damage.
Pit bulls have a reputation of being tough, threatening, etc. This makes them popular with punks and thugs. Neither of which have any idea what owning a dog entails. The dogs are not raised properly or confined properly. As bites/attacks/etc get more and more press, the more popular the breed becomes and wanted by those who really shouldn't have pets to begin with.
Every dog should be handled with respect especially around others. Not everyone loves your dog as much as you, no matter how "harmless" you think he/she is. Keep it leashed, keep it from wandering up to strangers, and for goodness sake, get current vaccines. Also, if keeping a dog outside, make sure the area is build well enough to keep the dog contained.

Hockeyfan, I get that. I like dogs but when I see one running loose I take care. I have friends who were letter carriers. They all have stories to tell about dogs that crept up on them. I figure when you have a customer who has named his dog "Satan", you might want to be very aware of where that dog is at all times. And it is any breed, not just pit bulls. I had a carrier tell me about the time he left a yard, and felt a weight on his ankle. He turned to see a miniature poodle latched on his heel. Luckily, he was wearing boots that were midcalf high.

ok... YIKES
can't believe this happened (just now)

we live in the Old West End, and have a rather big unfenced yard. We were enjoying a peaceful warm night, with our dogs (who were tied up) when all of a sudden a pitbull rolled into our yard. he/she attempted to go for us, and our dogs, but after much yelling and debris throwing on my part he/she finally left.

Holy smokes... i've never interacted with an angry / feral dog before. Typically the homeless dogs around here run away away soon as they hear a human coming, but this pitbull looked to be really sizing me and my dogs up.

I LOVE dogs... but after tonight i'm looking at this whole issue differently. This dog was literally looking for a fight, and it didn't have a collar or human associated with it.

Upso, sounds like what they call the "fight/flight response". Many dogs run away but some also are ready to be aggressive. If that dog was trained to be a fighter it might not know any other way. Maybe it could be rehabilitated but I think that is the kind the dog warden would have to put down. It might never interact well with humans or other dogs.

I don't think it was a fight or flight response. It literally was trying to get passed me, to my wife and dogs as I approached / confronted it. It was looking to attack and was not cornered in any way (it had the street behind it, it could have run at any point.)

Talk about a reality check

Most dogs that have been on the loose, will try to stay away from people. Those who don't probably have taken a small area as their own and are protective of it. Especially mothers. Other reasons for dogs to be aggressive are sickness, confusion, etc.

Makes perfect sense... But I work from home and haven't seen this dog until tonight in the 3+ years I've been here. That dog was on the hunt/prowl and was not protecting anything

From Renegade: Maybe if enough people e-mail the commissioners and Ujvagi urging them to save Amos, he might be saved.

I couldn't find an email address for the commissioners or for Peter Ujvagi. I'm not surprised - the Elected Officials don't want to hear a damn thing from their constituents until they begin their re-election campaign and ask for donations.

Ujvagi needs a class A ass whipping. I kind of wish Ben would step up to the plate and slap the crap out of that sanctimonious old bitch.

Upso, Wow! I honestly don’t know what I’d have done but my knee-jerk is to consider shooting it. I’ve never shot a dog or any mammal for that matter but what you’re describing is truly scary.

Upso, you might not have seen the dog because he was not there. Sometimes people take the dog to a faraway place to let it loose. When you do that you take away all the things the dog is familiar with: where its water and food are, the smell of other animals it knows, the smell of people it knows, etc. And yet people do that because they think it is kinder than taking it to the dog pound (at least it has a chance of being taken in or living off the land) or a shelter. I do not hold such a view myself because I have seen half-starved animals coming out of woods who are confused because their "owner" decided to shed themselves of an inconvenience.

In this morning's edition of The Blade, looks like Amos was saved - for now, anyway. Commissioners and/or Ujvagi probably got a lot of flack from the public, as well they should.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100416/NEWS16/4160379

Upso, that had to be terrifying. Quick thinking on your part saved the day. I don't know why such aggressive dogs are running loose. Glad you and your family are okay.

Upso- What a crazy experience! How scary.

Perhaps the dog had rabies?? Did you call animal control?

we called animal control last night, which directed us to call the police. my wife made a report.

Video at the bottom of the April 15 Toledo Blade story :

Tweets from BladeManagingEd

1. - Fridays are kill days at the Lucas Co. pound. Reporters are checking to see if Page 1 Amos will be killed tomorrow.

2. Amos the pit bull is granted reprieve, along with other nonvicious pitbulls at LC pound. Headline: Blade saves dog

Seneca County courthouse, Lucas County dog warden, I wished the Blade attacked real problems like Toledo city government and TPS just as hard.

Ironically, I had an experience with a loose pit bull yesterday that was very different from upso's.

I noticed her along the fence of one of my neighbor's, where a dog is kept in the back yard a lot. I was surprised that neither dog was going nuts with barking or anything. Put my shoes on and went outside to find three teenage boys with a leash trying to catch it. They said it was their neighbor's dog from a couple of streets away. In total five of us tried for awhile to corner the dog, and the boys did finally get her, but she was not snarly or aggressive or lunge-y at all. I felt comfortable enough at one point, when she was only about three feet away from me, to sit down on the ground and try to coax her to me. Unfortunately, I scared her off when I raised my hand a bit to give her a sit command. This pitbull behaved like most loose dogs do -- skittish and not wanting to come too close to you.

I am sorry that upso had to go through such a frightening experience. It IS really scary to see your own dogs threatened and not know if you're about to get attacked trying to protect them.

But my point is that temperament and aggression are specific to individual dogs.

oh of course. I totally agree. i just had to deal with a bad apple last night. i've had encounters with completely lovely pitbulls in the past and i'm sure I will again in the future.

My info may be outdated, but did you know what they do with the bodies of the dead dogs? The Humane Society used to dump them at the dump.
The warden has an incinerator, but locals complained about the smell. I'm not sure what they do now.

Here's another pit bull dog attack. This time in South Toledo...

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=12328562

Noted: no blade coverage that I have seen.

So there are 3 people in the hospital from a pit bull attack tonight on the east side. One of them a cop. Wonder if the Blade is going to report on that?????

THIS is very interesting.

http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/comments.pl/12/4128

Is Paul Helm a pitbull owner, himself????

Under Ohio law, owners of "pit bulls" must maintain at least $100,000 of liability insurance coverage for their dogs.

Do you, Paul Helm, have coverage of your dog(s)?

If the dogs involved were properly restrained (ie fence, etc) they never would have been able to jump it and attack as the story reported on Fox.

This may be the story that toledolen_ is referring to.

hockeyfan, fences get broken down. My neighbor has three dogs that have pushed against her fence on my side until it is sagging. I reinforced my side with a wire fence a couple of years ago. That is what I depend on to keep them from rushing in after my cats when the cats get out. The dogs are not vicious, but have killed cats in the past. They are not bad dogs; it is just that they never lived with cats. They may come after a human being (they bark when they see me) but I figure that if the fence is in good repair they should not get out. Unfortunately, the fence was not put in well, and is beginning to lean from the perpendicular to the ground.

The Fox Toledo story says the "owners will be cited." What does that mean? Do the owners have the Ohio law required insurance for the pit bulls? If owners do not have that insurance how is that enforced? What happens to the owners? Why aren't these people being properly regulated?

With UPSO's attack Thursday, the one on Friday in south Toledo, tonight's on the east side... and the Start High student on Thursday... so that's 4 attacks that HAVE BEEN reported in 4 days--only one on the Blade that I see so far. I wonder how many more have gone unreported?

Seriously, to hell with Paul Helm, The Blade, and anyone who owns the dogs that have attacked people this week.

Maybe state law should be changed to allow prison time for the owner of such a "dangerous weapon". Such owners seem no more responsible with a dog than they are with a gun. I do not think those dogs got the way they are without encouragement. I do not blame the dog as much as the owner. There was a comment from a neighbor on the Fox site that the owners laughed when the dogs exhibited bad behavior.

That is sick.

People are watching this BLADE. You people are sick.

Toledo Blade now has an article on in front of 669 Dover Place pitbull attack. When I tried to check this out using Google Maps it sent me to Hurd Street when I googled "669 Dover Place, Toledo, OH" and asked for street view. I followed Hurd northwest (according to street view) and found Dover Place. The address is the first house at the corner of Hurd and Dover Place. There seems to be a 3' wire mesh fence. That might not be enough to keep an aggressive dog inside. We have a 5 foot wooden fence between my property and the dogs next door. That might have been what these dog owners needed.

Let's try to put the best face on this. Someone commented on the fox channel that "they have these dogs outside all the time and they just laugh when the dogs go crazy when someone walks by". Maybe they were laughing not from some evil enjoyment but embarrassment over dogs they could not control, but felt they needed to protect the house (rather than a gun). There really needs to be either some kind of program to keep these dogs in the hands of good owners or massive punishment (including prison time)for those who are stupid enough to get animals they cannot control.

So does the Google Maps tell us whether the owners have dog insurance?

;)

insert popcorn eating smiley

A couple April 18, 2010 Blade stories:

• American pit bull terrier's image a bad rap, experts say
• 'Pit bull' shot after attacking girl, officer

If Tom Noe could somehow be connected to the vicious pit bull, the story of the attack would be much longer with details about other recent area attacks, etc.

Toledolen_, they may not have had coverage if no insurance company will cover them.

I think having insurance to pay for damage your dog does is a responsible thing to do. It would be better to have a fence that your dog cannot get over to attack the public. It would be better to spend the time with your animal to "socialize" it. If I see a dog I usually go to the other side of the street. Why take chances? The dogs will killed, but what will be the punishment for the negligent owner(s) of these animals?

A concern of mine is that "pit-bulls" could fall out of favor with the rougher elements of our society. It is quite possible to train other breeds that are not deemed a "vicious breed" to be vicious. Labs and lab mixes gave the second highest number of dog bites in our county in 2009. Pit bulls gave only 17% of the bites.

I wonder if the reason for Labs and Lab mixes being number 2 as far as bites is simply do to the huge numbers of the breed?
We have 2 and they are the sweetest dogs I've ever had.
They are escape artists though. I finally had to start wrapping a bungee cord around the driveway gate to keep them from opening the gate.
They would work together, the smaller, older one,(the brains of the outfit) would lift the latch with his snout, while the big boy, (125lb chocolate) would bulldoze the gate.

JM, you are right. It was the number of labs that caused such high numbers. I think that it is the "training" of the pit bulls that make them so vicious.

I'm sorry, but part of being a pet owner, especially dogs of this size, requires that the owner make sure the fence is in good condition and sufficient to keep dogs inside yard. Yes, it would be a shame if passer-bys agitated the dogs and got them fired up, but the bottom line is that it should be the owner's responsibility to make sure the dogs are contained properly. Worn out fences, improper installation, etc. is no excuse.

jr, and ALL of them would have been on the front page. I notice how this latest story was buried right in the middle, altho you couldn't miss the headline.

Dover runs behind my old house and I've seen those owners and dogs at a carry out at Starr and Dearborn. The one time, they were blocking the door with their dogs, which had muzzles on, and I, scared as I am of strangers and dogs, said 'get out of the fucking way!'. They laughed and walked out to the sidewalk. When I would see them walking, the dogs were pulling the leash holders, straining ahead, not trained in leach walking at all. I hope the dogs are killed, dogs are NOT more important than people!

From Toledolen_: Why aren't these people being properly regulated?

They are. It's included in the Patriot Act. These 'people' as you call them will be sent away for political re-education at a special freedom education center. There are several of these centers located outside the United States - Guantanamo Bay, Belmarsh (shared with the UK) and Tijuana.

From Nana: ...and I, scared as I am of strangers and dogs,...

Which explains everything. Get a firm grip on your neurosis and wrestle it back into its box. You'll be happier and the fearsome strangers you encounter every time you dare to venture outside your pillbox will stop laughing and pointing.

Three pit bull attacks against kids in one week in Toledo:

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=12332760

Gee, thanks, Jack, that was really helpful. Yer right, it's all my fault!! jerk.

Apr 20, 2010 Tweets from Toledo Blade managing editor Dave Murray :

1. - Photos of girl bitten by pit bull were graphic, but thought we should publish to illustrate what happened. http://bit.ly/acCDXf

2. - Fate of Toledo's most famous pit bull, Amos, in doubt. M/B killed tomorrow bec. Gerken/Wozniak tabled Konop plan http://bit.ly/awHD2s

3. - Trying to find out who @ dog pound named dogs for adoption "JC" "Benjamin" and "Blockhead". Everyone claiming ignorance.

Toledo Area Humane Society board OKs adoption of 'pit bulls'

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100421/NEWS16/100429933

From the article:

Besides requiring that all family members (including other family dogs) meet the "pit bull" prior to adoption, mandatory attendance in dog training classes and proof of liability, the following conditions must be met:

"pit bulls" will only be put up for adoption if they score exceptionally well on a number of tests, including dog-dog interaction, dog-cat interaction, food and possession guarding screening, and a trial period in a foster home.

All prospective adopters will have an initial counseling session which will cover breed characteristics, pit bull laws, and public perceptions and issues around pit bull ownership. Prospective adopters will be given a written summary of this counseling and be required to sign that they have read and understand the materials provided.

Humane society staff will do a criminal background check on prospective adopters which covers convictions in Ohio and Michigan, and disqualify any potential adopter with drug, weapons or violent crime convictions or convictions for dog fighting or animal cruelty.

Staff members will visit the home of prospective adopters prior to adoption to confirm that conditions where the adopted dog will be housed are suitable and meet the requirements of the Ohio Revised Code.

====================
That's a lot of staff hours for the adoption of a dog. It's one thing for the Humane Society to pay for that, but I wonder if A) The Lucas County Dog Warden would have the same requirements and B) who's going to pay for all of those extra man hours? Or, would the dog warden simply transfer their pit bulls to the Humane Society to handle the adoptions.

Amos reprieved and sent to Columbus. Hopefully, this leads to a happy ending of Amos' life at some point in the future.

Our workplace safety lecture included the information that wasp and hornet spray (with the nozzle that shoots a stream of poison, not a fine mist) can be used against animal or human attackers at a distance of up to 30 feet. It is said to be better than mace or pepper spray because you don't have to be close to use it ... and you should aim that stream at the attacker's eyes. I guess I'll buy a can for my bicycle basket.

I work with the woman involved in the South Toledo attack. She's the nicest lady you could ever want to meet, and her dog Scrappy is her baby. (Her family doesn't live in the area any more, so her dog IS her family.)

She has incurred a few thousand in vet bills as a result of the incident. What a shame that no one else can be held responsible, as the owner of the pit bull has never been tracked down. (And probably wouldn't pay anyhow.)

We took up a collection at work to help go towards Scrappy's vet bills. His owner is a very nice lady who would give the shirt off her back for anyone in need, so everyone felt it was important to help her as well.

If I hear any further updates on Scrappy's condition, I'll keep you guys posted. I've seen photos, and the poor little guy was injured pretty bad.

:(

Well, here's another attack in Toledo. This is in the OWE, and might even be the same dog that attacked upso's family???

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvg/story?section=news/local&id=7420164

And here's the kicker... the dog hasn't been picked up by the dog warden! And this isn't the first time he's bitten someone.

"The owner of the dog that bit Dottling will be cited. This is not the first time the white pit named Baby has attacked. According to a Lucas County Dog Warden attack report, in March the dog bit a 14-year-old."

wow. that pisses me off