Who's In Control Of Your Dog?

You make a very good point. Whether a dog breed is susceptible to violent behavior it kind of up in the air. I do truly believe regardless it's environment that truly makes the dog.

I think dogs like tend to get a bad rap since they are often owned by people with less than quality or willingness to train or take care of the dog and ultimately since they are big and strong dogs if they are brought up to attack they can cause damage.

Sure even a poodle under the wronge circumstances can be violent but because of their physical abilities not as worrisome.

Good story and it's good to have a positive story about such a breed. To often do we hear in the media the negative stories that tend to drown out anything positive.

Nice question...when we rescued our greyhound right from the track, it took some adjusting and to be honest, it was selfish of me to at first to think everything would just blend and mesh. It didn't take long, I just had to change my thinking and get rid of any inconvenience in my mind to figure out what was the most liked routine by my dog, NOT ME...I can't stress that enough for any newbie who wants to get a pet or anyone who has a pet and can't figure out what is "wrong" with thier pet's behavior. I am not a dog trainer but I have figured out why my dogs are quiet and understanding when the neighbor's dog won't stop barking hours on end.

I do think that there are many people out there who get dogs without thinking through the consequences. It's a 24-7-365 commitment for, if you get a puppy, often 12+ years. It's not unlike having a toddler around for that whole time. As such, you can't just let it be and hope it will figure out good behavior all on its own, regardless of breed. It is real WORK to train and socialize a "good dog," but the best owners are those who find joy and fulfillment in the work. And the best dogs probably have those kinds of owners.

After reading the back and forth commenting about "vicious" dogs on this board (and now this thread), I have to put in my 2 cents. Sorry it's a long post!

I am a dog owner and my family had multiple dogs when I was growing up. My mother is a former vet tech and taught me many things about dogs, including training and knowing how to spot the signs of a sick/disturbed animal. We had some interesting dogs growing up, but none of them were ever a danger to me (as a child) or anyone else. We had a "family breed" dog, along with some terriers over the years.

My current dog is a mutt--probably some whippet, greyhound, weimeraner, and (horrors) some pit in him. He is the most gentle, gentlemanly dog I have ever had...because he wasn't allowed to be anything else. I trained him starting IMMEDIATELY when I got him (at 7 weeks old) to be a good dog.

What does that mean? Here's some thoughts:

1.) CRATE TRAINING: I can't believe people think this is cruel. Dogs are "den animals", meaning they feel safe in cave-like places. Buy an appropriate sized crate and pad it with towels until they learn to control their bladder/colon.

Also, NEVER use a crate for cornering your dog so you can hit him. The crate is ALWAYS their safe spot no matter what. You can send them to their crate if they are bad, but they have to know they are safe from any physical harm.

The crate also keeps them safe when you are gone from the house--they can't get into everything (or, when they're young, pee/poop in secret locations).

2.) SCHEDULE/ROUTINE: Have one. Dogs live by it. Wake up, go outside, get breakfast, go into crate while dad's away, get out when dad comes home, play, eat, run, follow dad around house/yard, go to bed in crate. DO NOT get a dog if you can't spend time with him (i.e. you are gone all day & all night) & socialize him with others. A crate-trained dog is wonderful--a crate-BOUND dog (for 18 or more hours a day) is just sad and cruel.

3.) DO NOT ENCOURAGE "CUTE" BEHAVIOR AS A PUPPY YOU WILL HATE WHEN THEY GROW UP: As a puppy, my dog liked to "gnaw" on me. I got in the habit of pinching his nose every time he did it and he stopped in a couple months time (and never chewed anything else either). He now has a very gentle mouth, even with the vet.

Same thing with barking--starting from the time I got him, I always told him NO with a stern look, even though he had the cutest little bark. But I KNEW that not discouraging that behavior then would lead to a lot of problems later, so he was corrected. Now, he barks rarely (when strangers knock at the door and that's OK with me), but NEVER at people I welcome in the house and NEVER when we walk or go socialize at the park.

When I see these (mostly) women with these little yapper dogs they don't correct, I just laugh at them. They thought it was "cute" as a puppy, didn't discipline the dog because "he's just so wittle an' cute"...and now they are stuck for the next 15-20 years with a dog that won't shut up. That's your fault, sister--not the dog's. You are the one who changed the rules about barking!

3A.) DO NOT TEASE YOUR DOG INCESSENTLY: The dog doesn't like it--it is not playing. It is being cruel. If you teased a child like some people tease dogs, they would lock you up for mentally abusing the child. The child can cry as an outlet--the dog internalizes it and becomes mean because that is the only outlet they have (to protect themselves).

Seriously, if you need to prove your superiority as a human being to something, go prove it to another human being. Dogs depend on YOU--YOU are their world. So why are you teasing them until they turn mean? Once again, that's not the dog's fault--it's yours.

4.) GO TO A PROFESSIONAL TRAINING CLASS: Professional trainers are friggin' amazing people who can help you IF YOU MAINTAIN AT HOME THE DISCIPLINE THEY SHOW YOU IN CLASS.

In the class I took with my current dog, I saw a German Shepard (who even I was afraid of) turn into a wonderful, in control, pet dog by the end of 10 weeks. The owner obviously took the class seriously, practiced between classes with his dog, and the dog benefited. Probably kept his dog from being labeled "vicious".

Professional training works with large AND small dogs. They stop behaviors like pulling on the leash and teach you how to communicate commands to your dog like sit, stay, (lay) down, and others you need to control your dog on or off leash. It is for their safety as well as other humans. But the dog only benefits if you take it seriously and continue the discipline at home. If you're a weakling, your dog WILL OWN YOU!

Whether you are a man or woman, YOU are the alpha in your house. Act like it and your dog will follow and love you forever.

Finally, just some short tidbits:

A.) People convicted of fighting dogs should be fed to the lions at the zoo. Once again, prove your superiority, macho man...

B.) Teach little kids to respect dogs and they'll be fine. But a little kid who kicks, hits, jumps on a dog is asking to get bit. The dog ain't vicious--it's protecting itself. Control your kid, dumb ass...

C.) All your dog asks for is food and love. Give plenty.

Our old dog, Bart, was found by my sister-in-law in the alley along with another puppy (they seemed the same type so they may have been siblings). A woman was swinging her broom at the pups to get them off her back porch, and out of her yard. My sister got them in our yard (it was not hard to do) after they had calmed down. She began to care for both pups (who were weaned) but asked my sister if she would take one. Since one of her two dogs had recently died my sister had room, and took the black furred pup. Bart nipped at my brother's boot a few times growing up. If he thought that people he loved were arguing he would growl and bark to get them to quit. He was our "policeman".

The other puppy was raised lovingly, but was aggressive. When I would go to my sister's house (maybe once a month or so) he would growl and sometimes "snap" at me. I would just ignore him, and that seemed to work. He did bite one of my niece's teachers, though, when she brought the girl's homework. Luckily, it was not bad, and the teacher did not pursue the matter. He eventually lived a fairly long live (14 years), and died in nature's time.

Bart lived to be 16 years of age. He probably should have been put to sleep at 14 or so, but mom could not bring herself to do it.

Eventually his body began to swell, and the vet said it was congestive heart failure. He lived a few more months, but it was obvious he was in distress so my sister-in-law (who had given Bart to us when she moved into Bedford Township) came to go to the vet with me for Bart's last visit.

"Bart" was the best present my sister-in-law could have given my mom. After my father passed away Bart slept beside her, and gave her comfort. My mom has cats she loves, but while Bart was alive he was her "baby". Perhaps we should have been more disciplined with him but we treated him more like a child than a dog. When he bit my nephew he went from being a dog who walked in public everyday to one who lived in a fenced yard. That may have contributed to his heart disease but to have lived 16 years is good for a dog.

I have two dogs. Each one had their own issues at one time or another. One had separation anxiety and the other cage anxiety (may not have heard of that one, but very real and sad). You just work through what you can and these things cleared up over time. I think my dogs are well behaved because they do not sit outside barking at everything like some do, but they do things like jump or not listen sometimes. Nothing major. I think in our instance it was a case of the dogs and me both meeting half way. We have a great life together and they are spoiled of course. But they give me more back than I can ever explain.

Dogs are awesome - some people, not so much.

Oldhometown, your entire post was right on the money. I have had Doberman's as pets for most of my adult life, and at one time they were considered a "vicious" breed. It was an unfair label as is the current label for Pit Bull breeds.
Thank you for your intelligent and thoughtful post.

Vicious breeds
1970's German Shepards
1980's Doberman Pinchers
1990's Rotweilers
2000's Pit Bulls
2010's ???

Im old enough to recall all these breeds being labeled as vicious at one time or another.

I recall, a tv program (history maybe?) I saw years ago, about dogs. They said at one time Dobermans had a reputation, (justifiably)of being vicious. Selective breeding and time has made the breed a fine family dog again. Maybe this is what is needed with pit bulls.

Dog fighting and drug houses are what gives any breed a bad name.

OldHomeTown: Excellent post.

A.) People convicted of fighting dogs should be fed to the lions at the zoo.

I want season tickets for me and my friends and family, and I won't settle for the nose bleed seats.

B.) Control your kid, dumb ass...

Notice to all parents: Your kids aren't cute, they aren't all that bright and they are not welcome to make friends with my dog. Use a leash and muzzle if you have to, but control the damn kid.

C.) All your dog asks for is food and love. Give plenty.

And you'll get it back, several times over. My dog is always glad to see me - always! Where else are you going to find love like that?

For me, sharing my house with my dog, i.e., not limiting it to the kitchen or some other part of the house, and taking it for daily walks is a big deal.

And, when coming home from work, I always remember, no matter how bad a day I might be having, to lean down and pet or hug my dog and cat when they greet me at the door. You mean the world to them. They live to please you.

I'll humbly co-sign to renegades post there. Sometimes the cat greets me first though. LOL

"You can't own a cat. The best you can do is be partners." - Sir Harry Swanson

My 18-year-old cat Sir Comet and I have been good partners. I got Comet in late May of 1992, so he was probably born in late March or early April. I figure a cat that wise in years deserves the "Sir" title. I got "interrupted" late Monday evening by Comet snuggling up next to me on the sofa, and, of course, that's it. Lights out. I fell asleep unexpectedly. And now I'm awake.

Ol' Sir Comet is a special needs cat. He has been diabetic for over four years, and he has been CRF since last Thanksgiving. I give him insulin shots twice a day. I syringe meds into his mouth, including Aluminum Hydroxide twice a day and Famotidine twice a day. And at night, he gets sub-q fluids. He also has an abscess tooth, but we can't do much about that now.

Despite all that, he's doing fairly well, or he's good at hiding how he really feels, which I think is possible. He still maintains his daily routines, demands, and character quirks, which are those things that define him as Comet. He loves to snuggle with anyone stretched out on the recliner and covered with a blanket. He raised a paw at our two-year-old dog who got too close last evening, so Comet is still a bit feisty.

But at times, it's also obvious that the end is near, which could be some weeks yet or even a few months away, although I doubt the latter. Who knows. I just enjoy our time together. That dreaded day will come soon. That final visit to the vet. And it will be rough. And I will retire indefinitely as a pet owner. The dog belongs to my wife.

My other cat, Beanie, was also diabetic. He was unrelated to Comet. Beanie died from mouth cancer in March 2005. I've been giving daily insulin shots for nearly eight of the last nine years. I'm in no hurry for Comet to leave. My schedule and activities are altered because of Comet's needs, and that's OK with me. I figure he's earned the support. But I know that I have no desire to take on another pet after Comet who is my first cat and my first pet as an adult. He has outlived all the other cats we've had, but Sir Comet's 9-lives card is maxed out. It's been a fun ride though.

Very moving post, jr. Giving insulin to a pet is tough, I'm sure. Sounds like a labor of love for you. Sir Comet probably has lived as long as he has because of your undying devotion to him. He's a lucky dude (as was Beanie). Sir Comet may surprise you and live longer than you think.

Why, though, will you "retire indefinitely as a pet owner." I hope all goes well for you.

Ryan - my dog had severe crate anxiety as a puppy as well, so we gave up on using one with him. We followed all the rules to the letter on introducing the crate as a puppy, but he would have none of it. (And I know how to crate train a dog the "right" way - have fostered dogs for a rescue group, and always crate train the fosters.)

He actually has 2 small bald spots on the sides of his paw from where he tried to frantically dig his way out of the crate, the first time we shut the door on it. (I had went gradually through all the acclimation steps, warming him up to being in there without the door shut, etc.)

The vet said that some dogs just can't handle the crate, no matter what you do. I totally get what you mean about "crate anxiety."

jr, I've had a cat(s) ever since I moved out of an apartment into my own house. My first cat was a Siamese that was killed crossing Broadway as an adult. She was trying to get home (we figure) after my friend (who shared the house with me) took her to see his mom while I was on vacation.

My second cat (another Siamese) lived 21 years. The last few years were tough on her because I would prod her out of her "cat naps" to see if she was still alive. She was a "people" cat, and although I had two other cats at the time she passed away, she would hiss at them if they got too close.

My mom will not have another dog (too old to train it properly), but cats share her bed. When she wakes in the morning there is one by her head (who "spoons" with her), and one or two on each side of her legs. She (and I) dread the thought of one of them dying, but as you say some day his/her "9-lives card is maxed out".

Mom2, that was a very challenging time in my life. I had gotten the puppy because my adult dog had developed separation anxiety. Well, the puppy immediately cured her of that, but the puppy HATED the crate. I would not have even bothered with the crate, but I was coming home to furniture, shoes and remotes being chewed up. The poor guy escaped all the time, I have no idea how. One day I even came home and he was sitting on my back steps! He got out of the crate, came upstairs and popped out a screen. Thankfully the gate was closed! He also broke the tip off his fang teeth trying to escape as well as was always soaked with ‘nervous saliva”. The vet said there was a medicine that I could give him, but I really did not want to go that route. I ended up letting him win and gave him free range of the house while I was gone. I figured the stuff he was destroying was no more expensive than the pills they were recommending and he finally grew out his chewing phase.

LOL! At one point it was so bad I would take him with me everywhere. I even went to a party once and he stayed in the car in the driveway happy as can be – as long as he was not in a crate!

Marcia Williams is probably having sleepless nights since Sunday. The dog(s) had no licenses. There were two at the address although it is a duplex (she says she owned one and her father another). The damage to the young girl will probably result in a lawsuit.

The house she lives in is owned by Marcea S. Williams (according to AREIS).

That lady sounds like an idiot. She knew the one dog was aggressive and could get out yet they weren’t chained up? And no licenses; shocking.

Not to stereotype; but how come these pit bull issues we hear about are always in lower income neighborhoods? Do people in the suburbs not own pit bulls?

Here is a lot of trouble because a dog was allowed to run loose. If the owner had confined the dog (no matter how "good" he seemed to be) perhaps the nut on the other end of the gun might not have taken the actions he did. This still has to be worked out, but the problem seemed to start with a dog that was allowed to run loose (in violation of dog license rules).

There is absolutely no reason or excuse to let your dog wander the neighborhood, period.

But obviously the dog-shooters need to be prosecuted and I hope they get the maximum penalties allowed, as the video evidence (as reported -- I don't want to watch it) would suggest strongly that the shooting was premeditated and unprovoked. There are a few different, appropriate things you can do when you see a wandering dog; shooting it is not on the list.

The suspect should also have his own dog taken away, as animal abusers should not be allowed to own pets.

read the story earlier this week stating that the neighbor and his friend let the dog out themselves then shot it.

Absolutely never a valid reason for your dog - or cat - for that matter, to be roaming loose.

That being said, what I'd like to see happen to the dirt bags who shot Tyson I wouldn't dare say here.

Dogs and cats run around loose all the time where I live. I don't have a problem with it.

From Foodie: what I'd like to see happen to the dirt bags who shot Tyson I wouldn't dare say here.

Ain't that the truth. 99 years in San Quentin State Prison sound about right?

Maybe it was the woman who did the shooting. If it is the guy hopefully he has more restrain in the workplace (a nuclear power plant). If not, maybe his future is scrubbing toilets for a living. Less likely to cause damage.

I just saw this on the news and am completely sickened. What type of people do something like this? And from what I read here it is because it roamed sometimes? Well too friggin bad. The video clearly shows that white trash bicth getting him from his owners back yard. I really am at a loss. There is a special place in hell for those two.

Hopefully, this couple isn't planning on starting a family. Doesn't sound like he has time to raise his own dog (aggression, wailing) let alone a kid. Might have to put a neighbor's kid down if s/he come too near his home, and causes his kid stress.

Glad you have no problem with it where you live madjack. Where I live, I DO have a problem with it.
In fact, I have several problems with it.

1. I don't want to bear the guilt should your pet run in front of my vehicle and I run it over.
2. With the world full of irresponsible people, who knows what animals are properly vaccinated, potentially spreading canine and feline illnesses around the neighborhood.
3. When I go for a walk in my neighborhood, I don't want to have to try to guess which free roaming dogs might be friendly and which may not be.
4. I do not appreciate cleaning up the mess left behind by someone else's animal - canine or feline.

The list could go on and on but why bother? You apparently live where you do for your reasons and others live where they do for their reasons.

There are leash laws for good reasons. IMHO, they should extend to cats as well.

I agree totally that dogs should not be allowed to run free.
The thing is, even if Tyson ran free at times, when these scumbags pulled off their cowardly, sickening act the dog was in his own yard.

Oh, I realize that JeepMaker. That's why I said I wouldn't dare mention here what I'd like to see happen to those low lifes.

And 99 years in San Quentin doesn't even come close.

Ive thought of several punishments for crimes I consider too sick to consider normal punishment. The one I thought that has to be the worse is death by sandblaster, that would have to be reserved for the worst unrepentant and unsalvagable people convicted and appealed of the most cruelest crimes like child molesters.

From Foodie: You apparently live where you do for your reasons and others live where they do for their reasons.

Right. Live and let live. Just don't try to force me to conform to your idea of freedom and it's very likely we'd make excellent neighbors.

madjack, I REALLY hesitated to respond but believe I must. There is no more freedom loving person on the planet than I. Government's intrusion into that area infuriates me to no end. Government at all levels.

Live and let live is a motto I have followed my entire life. A staunch FISCAL conservative I freely admit to being.

However, common sense comes into play here. God and Mother Nature did not domesiticate canines and felines. Humans did. With that domestication comes responsibility if, for no other reason, than the well being of the pets involved.

A greater lover of pets than me you would be hard pressed to find. Heck, I even considered adopting the cats AnnieC had a post about. Alas, I don't think HRH Pomeranian would have tolerated it. But I also strongly believe in caring for my pets as I would my children. And, IMHO, that includes not allowing them to roam freely - primarily for their well being and secondarily out of respect for my neighbors.

How that thinking infringes on your idea of freedom escapes me. But, it's your opinion and I'd fight to the death for your ability to express it.

That being said, if we were neighbors and you insisted on allowing your pets to roam free to the point where they were a detriment to:
1. me and my family
2. my pets
3. themselves

then we wouldn't get along so well.

My point here is this. I've lived here for over 50 years and watched the surrounding area build up. I'm not crazy about the urban sprawl, but that's how things are. What I strenuously object to is my brand new neighbors telling me how to live my life so that it suits them. Fuck 'em. Let them go buy a home somewhere else.

That includes having my dog leave a land mine in their front yard, right in the middle of the path the old man takes to get to the mail box every morning. With any luck he won't notice until he's tracked fertilizer all over the carpet.