Toledo--Dodge City for the 21st Century

IMHO..
People like that guy can't fight, usually they only hit {and or menace} women and people who they think are weaker than they are. That's why they have weapons. {unlicensed of course}

Politically incorrect comment of the day: Don't drink late at night in bars in low-income areas with black people. They have guns and prefer to use them instead of discussing their differences in an intelligent manner. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the shooters in these bar fights black and in low-income areas? Shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone really.

....counting how long it takes until someone calls muddy a racist.

Byrne and Glendale is a low income area?

I grew up in those parts (closer to Southwyck, actually). It's not low income...it's pure middle class. Heck, I went to kindergarten at the church now across the street from AutoZone on Byrne.

What is pure ghetto are the apartments behind Southland that wrap around to Arlington (with Faith Community UCC church and the WKKO/WRQN/WTOD radio stations also bordering).

Those apartments have been the scene of numerous drug deals/busts, break-ins, beatings, and a couple rapes (that I know of--could be even more I, thankfully, don't know).

Wouldn't be surprised if a connection to those apartments is found somewhere in the investigation...

Another good piece of advice: if you start an altercation with someone at a dive bar, don't follow them out of the bar to continue the harangue. You could end up like these guys or Troy Neff, flat out in the emergency room because you had to get the last word.

We of course don't know the substance of the argument, but it sounds like the victims weren't happy about how the perp was treating his girlfriend, so they got involved, and the perp left the bar. It should have stopped right there. Maybe the perp was being an ass to his woman, maybe not. Either way, if you were followed out of bar by two men who may be threatening you and you had a firearm in your trunk, wouldn't you use it to defend yourself?

OHT, I was talking about the apartments around that bar being low income, not that general area. I lived for 10 years at Heatherdowns and Byrne, so I know what happens around that bar. Any strip mall that has a butcher shop, Family Dollar, Dollar Tree, Big Lots, beauty supply store, and a fried chicken restaurant, is definately a low income area.

you know... because only poor people buy their meat at the butcher shop

I hope they have a bookstore in that ghetto strip that has a Websters that explains there is no A in definitely.

I've been in that bar a few times. The last time was about 6 months ago. Service sucked, but fine inside. As a matter of fact at least at 7pm on a weekday it was all middle age white folks.

It's also the bar of chose for the a local Toledo Ruby team.
From March this year -
http://www.toledorugby.com/

"Thanks to all the fans and ruggers young and old that made it out Saturday, as well as much gratitude to the Lair Lounge, our favorite haunt, and the host of the Celtics afterparty."

From Yelp -
http://www.yelp.com/biz/lair-lounge-toledo

"The Lair..haha, it's ok, only one pool table, kinda sucks tho.
It kinda reminds me of an 'old people' bar"

I spend more than a little time at Doc Watsons across the street and that defiantly has a nicer crowed there.

Muddyriverduck, I'll call you out for at least being a idiot.

Ace - if you are able to WALK out of a bar from a confrontation and go to your car to retrieve a weapon - and THEN use it, you are not defending yourself.

I know the original post asked if we need concealed weapons to get a drink, but law abiding citizens who would comply with CCW regulations would not have their firearm in the bar anyway.

As for the "area," everyone must be aware of their surroundings and the nature of them regardless of what part of town you are in. We frequented Doc Watson's often in law school, and still do on occassion. It is not an area that sends up red flags itself, but you have to be dilligent always.

TAHL

Upso, go in that butcher shop on the first of the month and tell me you don't feel out of place.

No Ryan, there is no bookstore in that strip mall. Thanks for pointing out my misspelling. That's mighty white of ya.

I love Doc's too. Never any problems. But it's not by those ghetto apartments so I don't see what the corelation is. Lair Lounge after midnight has less than savory criters running around in it, and you should be careful. Bottomline.

Racist? I don't know. Cherry-picking the evidence to support a stereotype? Sure.

Where is Muddyriverduck's outrage over white criminal thugs, like these losers I am linking after a quick cherry-picked searrh in the recent Blade archives for crime-related news items with pictures of assailants:

Jimmy Houston, who attacked an elderly couple

Rebecca Olinger, drug addict who robbed for dope money

Erica Rowe, who helped beat and kill and 80-year-old man

Heck, if I want to engage in cherry-pricking, I could say that 66.66% of the assailants above were WHITE WOMEN. Sheesh, with WHITE WOMEN engaging in so much crime, maybe the government ought to do more to get these VIOLENT WHITE WOMEN locked up.

(sarcasm alert for clueless trolls)

Factors like income levels, stability of homes in childhood, and education levels are a far better predictor of future criminal behavior than is race, muddyriverduck, but far be it from me to rain on your race-focused parade.

If in fact the guy was being an ass to his "woman", that's her problem. Chivalry is dead, or so my son was told by a judge when he was arrested for assault for punching a man who was beating up his girlfriend in a public place. Also the GF was a witness against my son, who was trying to help her. {black eyes and all}
It was beyond ridiculous.
That woman will probably be weeping and wailing about how her man was just defending himself and that he did nothing wrong, blah, blah, blah.
I agree with TAHL, "if you are able to WALK out of a bar from a confrontation and go to your car to retrieve a weapon - and THEN use it, you are not defending yourself."

Here's what the story said:

"Mr. Jones told police the suspect and the two women had argued by a pool table. The suspect and his female companion left the bar and Mr. Primas and Mr. Jones followed them outside, where they exchanged words with the suspect before he grabbed a gun from the trunk of his car."

He didn't go out to the car, get his gun and come back in and start blasting. I agree, he couldn't argue self defense if he could have gotten in his car and driven away. But my point is that, contrary to Dalton's advice in "Road House," a lot of times it isn't better to "take it outside." That guy that stabbed Troy Neff shouldn't have done it, but Troy wouldn't have gotten stabbed if he didn't seek to prove something to a complete stranger in a dark parking lot when he could have just as easily kept driving.

Good point.