Yesterday I took a research trip up to the D to take some photos. I thought the folks at TT might be interested in seeing them, as there is often much talk here about Toledo becoming "Little Detroit." These pictures are just a sample of what I saw. Houses like these were EVERYWHERE. I never felt so good about living in Toledo after visiting Detroit...
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Take out the train station and I would have guessed those photo's were of Toledo. You can take those same photo's here.
I know I'm just a citizen with no real power or intelligence, but......
It would seem to me that if fire and emergency personnel cannot enter parts of the city without an armed escort, then the city is in anarchy (or open rebellion to authority) and needs to have the National Guard or Army called in to restore order.
Detroit will never be what it was. Ever.
Maybe it's because I'm originally from north of Detroit, but the last time I was in Detroit proper (on business, no less), I had a great time. It kind of made me unhappy to return to Toledo.
Agreed that Detroit makes Toledo's problems seem inconsequential, Mesmerix, and great pics BTW. I lived in Detroit for 25 years before moving to Toledo on business (yeah, I know: what a step up). It is sad to see my hometown in such dire straits, and that there are only pockets of good neighborhoods left. The two neighborhoods in which I spent most of my early (ages 0-25) life are really suffering (Warren/Southfield and Plymouth/Greenfield), and it would be many years before the blight could be undone in my old 'hoods.
If it even can be undone.
City leaders are not sure even how many abandoned/vacant houses exist in Detroit, and they can only provide vague estimates. I have seen numbers as low as 30 and as high as 60 thousand homes, and the number might be even higher, since the "low counters" probably want to minimize the problem for fear of driving out more residents.
I know I'm just a citizen with no real power or intelligence
It may surprise you to learn that you are not the only one who realizes this completely mundane factoid.
I used to play paintball at Splatball City in Hamtramck, MI. The place is closed now (not a bad thing) but when we drove up to play the surrounding neighborhood made us wish for MP5s and an armored car. I wish I'd taken some pictures of the old place and the surrounding area, as it was a precursor of times to come.
Thanks for this. It is a humbling reminder that even in America we can fall far from grace.
It's not that there aren't places like this in Toledo, it was just the percentage of homes in Detroit like this that I found astounding. Granted, I was in the hood, but I went to six different locations and drove all over town, and all I saw was vacant, dessicated, dens of iniquity... to put it mildly.
By MadJack's request, I posted more photos from my trip in my blog: http://mesmerix.blogspot.com/2010/07/d-setting-part-deux.html
The unfortunate part about the comparison to Toledo is that Detroit (by size alone) still has some worthwhile neighborhoods and some "destinations", for lack of a better term, downtown. Toledo certainly has some neighborhoods, but there really is not much draw downtown.
I'm going to have to massively disagree with you on that
I watched the show on History channel called "Apocalypse Man" and I remember being shocked to read later that it was filmed in Detroit. It looks like some 3rd world country.
Sadly, you can't blame all of it's troubles on the economy, much of to must go to the people that live there who choose to live in a lawless manner.
I'm sure plenty of people will, upso!
Unfortunately for me, this is the first city I've lived where, aside from the occasional sporting event, I have no real reason to go downtown. There are mediocre restaurants and bars closer to my house!
so whatever happened to Bing's idea of moving everyone into a more compact space? was that just housing or would that be businesses and support services as well? I thought it was a great idea to help save a dying city, but I don't live there.
If Dave Bing didn't have to fight (a) entrenched unions that think they should CONTINUE to receive exorbitant benefits and guaranteed employment in a dying city and (b) a city council that makes our Toledo variety look like Mensa members...then perhaps things would move along quicker.
I think Bing is a good man who is running headlong into the buzzsaw of the entrenched interest politics in Detroit--where the motto is "GIMME MINE--the city can go to hell."
I don't live in Detroit either, but I read the newspaper(s) online. There may be corrupt cities everywhere, but nowhere else has the corruption completely disintegrated the core of a major metropolitan area like Detroit.
I hear parts of Chicago are pretty messed up as well, so bad that they almost sent in the national guard.
Of course we can't report about how bad Chicago has gotten, that's curious george's hometown.
Sure the point of the thread was how lucky we are that Toledo isn't Detroit. Wonder if percentage wise there is as much blight in Toledo compared to Detroit, and where someone said
"nowhere else has the corruption completely disintegrated the core of a major metropolitan area like Detroit"
I figured Chicago could also be an example of good old democrat party machine in action. Where the wealth is stolen and spread around to the cronies that keep them in office.
We are lucky that Toledo is not Detroit....yet.
The moment something similar this situation happens at a Toledo City Council meeting will be the signal for everyone to clear out:
BTW: The lady putting up a fuss is now convicted on bribery charges and awaiting sentencing. She is also the wife of a sitting US Congressperson (John Conyers). Of course, the good congressperson doesn't know a thing about his wife's crimes. Ummmm.....sure....that's believable.
The pictures remind me of Philadelphia (where I am originally from) and I think they are typical of most big cities. You have to take the good with the bad-yes those houses/buildings are an eyesore but there is more diversity/fun things to do in big cities.
Detroit is the poster child for the failure of the war on poverty.
Having grown up in SE Michigan, I spent a lot of time in Detroit as a youth and have a lot of fond memories. There are still plenty of places to go downtown (Detroit) that are safe enough but you don't want to venture very far from the primary downtown area.
Historymike, I am very familiar with the areas you mentioned. I still travel to the Warren/Southfield area quite often to go to New Yasmeen Bakery. It can be an interesting drive down Warren Ave.
However, out in the northern, northwestern and western burbs, there is plenty of safe fun to be had. The downriver area where I grew up is really not of any great interest - at least not to me.
As for downtown Toledo - I think we're very slowly getting there. 5th 3rd is a great draw but only a seasonal one. Huntington Arena should help that. Getting people living downtown is key. That got off to a decent start but appears to be faltering a bit.
I'm just not convinced that there is enough of the population in the region willing to make downtown Toledo viable by supporting it. I've lived in a few major and semi-major metropolitan areas over the years and have never come across one quite like Toledo.
One of the things I find odd is that no one wants to pay to park downtown. I've yet to see the downtown area of any larger city where you could park for free all the time.
Anyone read any analysis of the less than enthusiastic support of the "new" party in the park events? Was it the $25 entry fee or some other reason(s)? I'm curious as I've not read or heard anything about more about them.
Requiem For Detroit - 2010 BBC documentary on the urban decline of Detroit.
Full Documentary :
Requiem For Detroit
Detroit lost a million people. Can you even imagine the scope of the fall? Meanwhile, Toledo loses about 1% every 3 years rather steadily. We'll get close to Detroit's current condition. Toledo is already at the 1945 level of population, and falling to the 1915 level is a real threat.