Kaptur: Porker or Supporter

If something's coming back, then why did it need to be taken in the first place?

Pork is pork - if its a benefit to some then it's a detriment to others. Example - if a bill for an interstate highway costs a billion dollars, and Kaptur tells the sponsoring congressman that she wont vote for it unless NW Ohio gets $5 million for their schools, then that bill must have $5 million too much in it to begin with.

I dont know if I can truthfully say Im an Iott supporter, but in this example, he's right.

Another example is the US Department if Education. They brag that 87% of the states' monies are returned right back to that state's education systems... so that leaves 17% for what, a brokers' fee? Why not just disband the program (it's not been around that long anyway) and just let that funding stay with the states.

The "our money". Exactly what money are we talking about? How do we know that she didn't bring back MORE than what went out? There are many cities, towns and villages that get more "our money" Federal dollars then did indeed get to the Federal Government in the first place. That's a fact. There are folks who keep track of this somewhere. I'm not at all surprised the Blade didnt research this and report on it. The results liklely wouldn't have suited their agenda.

Hey max, you a shill?

These are old but I doubt it has changed much. It seems that Ohio receives more Federal dollars than its citizens and businesses pay into the Federal government.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

http://blog.buzzflash.com/analysis/617/

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/266.html

My God, I am really starting to hate the Blade. Tells half the story that supports their agenda.

What I know personally is that the Villgae of Holland received nearly 3 times its annual tax revenue budget over the last 15 years in Federal dollars to pave its roads. No fru fru stuff, just pavement, sewers, gutters curbs, sidewalks and handicapped pedestrian accessibility. Good roads and good transportation corridors attract businesses and businesses mean jobs. That's pork you can use.

Hey Holland..Nope. Just planting a seed based on comments I picked up from both sides after the Blade story. Interesting responses.

Agree with Billy. If she held out for something for Ohio, chances are, she gave something up to return the "favor" vote. Which in the long run cost Ohians and Americans.

Stop the backdoor dealings and quit adding crap to every bill that goes through.

"planting a seed" snort.

(playing devil's advocate for the sake of the argument)

Here's the deal, though: Kaptur is going to be damned no matter what. If she took the principled stand against government waste and the earmark system, other groups of voters would label her "ineffective" for failing to bring home the pork in the time-honored tradition. Until the crooked system gets fixed, politicians will use pork barrel spending to help ensure their electoral futures.

And you can bet Rich Iott (or anyone running against Marcy Kaptur) would be using the "ineffective bacon-bringer" tag as a political tool. Iott can rail all day about being a spending hawk - just like the other deficit-despising folks running in 2010 - but if elected he would play the same games as Kaptur (albeit perhaps in different budget-busting forms, like more corporate tax breaks, greater defense spending, or spending projects pushed by corporate lobbyists).

Yep, the system is flawed and those in it have to play by the flawed rules.

Seems like voters like to be told what they want to hear and will not hold elected officials responsible for empty promises.

I looks like Latta had $5 million in earmarks this year and $8 million last year.

http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/earmarks.php?fy=FY09&cid=N00012233&cycle=2010

Why aren't 'conservatives' rallying against him and his earmarks?

Nice catch SensorG.

I'm a conservative but not a Republican, Red or Blue is not the answer. The two party system is choking common man's voice because their are a lot of people who really don't align themselves with either party and have no real platform.

Holland - How do we know that she didn't bring back MORE than what went out?

Then someone else is getting screwed... I had someone tell me one time that he didnt consider anything as "pork" if it was beneficial... that makes no sense.

If that's true, then the liberals darling "The bridge to nowhere" is not pork because it benefitted the people who got jobs to build it, and the 14 people who go over it every day..

As I recall Alaska is a red state - hardly a bastion of liberals. It was initially supported by Palin herself until the press got wind of it, then she changed her mind. It was also supported by Republican Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska.

Ok Holland then explain the turtle tunnels in California.

My point holland is that the bridge IS pork. as is whatever ANY senator "brings home". Their job isnt to "Bring home" pork monies, but to ensure that theyre not taken out in the first place!!! If all bills had only the monies in them that they were originally set up for, we'd all be better off.

If you bring back money taxed out of the community, you're a pork-barreller (you lose).

If you take a principled stand against pork/earmarks, all of that money guaranteed goes to other communities (you lose even worse).

In order to gain control of the money (i.e. "have influence"), you have to be in Congress at least 20+ years, make deals, and stay in Congress until you are so old you no longer have 2 functioning brain cells (see: Robert Byrd, Strom Thurmond). This is not what the Founding Fathers envisioned.

The man 4th in line for the presidency (Dan Inouye-Hawaii) is 86 years old...and is running again for another 6 year term this year. He will win easily because Hawaii is so dependent on federal dollars (between all the military bases and government workers). He's an icon--no question--but his main credential for running is "He brings money to Hawaii because he is a senior Senator".

Does anybody seriously think this is a good thing? This isn't a Republican/Democrat thing. Both sides earmark/pork-barrel. Both sides fall for the trappings of power. But keeping propping up a nearly 90 year old man (or woman) in office just because they can then grab more money for their state is just BS and rather sick.

Kaptur is the best thing we've got going for us. If we had one like Latta, he'd bulldoze the city and plant corn.

Oh she a dandy OK, but it time for her to leave.

to bring a too delayed comment to this thread, if you start with a new congress person, they would not have M.Kaptur's seniority, so would not have her leadership position on committee, and Toledo would suffer in ways that most people don't have a clue about. I'm talking money and opportunity that we would never see.
Study a bit on the value of the seniority system in the house.

If we had honest representation, they wouldn't be draining away money from us and it would still be here, not collected, sent to Washington, then passed out piecemeal to those with the most clout or best party affiliation.

And we don't have honest representation because idiots keep voting for the same assholes who gerrymander the districts so that their political party can keep power, on top of voting in officials who run elections we can't trust on systems we can't verify, and all those assholes write the laws that are used to keep any threats to their power off the ballots, and the people who back them use their control of the media to push their agendas and feed the average idiot American a steady diet of fear, uncertainty, and doubt about absolutely everything.

Dont give me that AC you know the Dems did the same thing when they had control after a census.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, things were truly as partisan then as they are now, OVER THIRTY YEARS AGO.

Turn off the Fox News and WSPD and go read some history. Pretty sure you can look up the old district maps and see the progression in gerrymandering.

I just came across this post...this "max" did not post it.
How can that happen?

max, the post that started this thread was created in July 2010.

prime3end bumped this thread back to the top of the politics section with a comment two days ago.

Since this thread began over two yeas ago, is it possible that you don't remember starting the thread?

Click on your username, and then click on the 48 number that indicates the number of threads that you started. Scroll through the three pages of threads that you created.

Yeh, I did that...the posts that came up are mine, except for this one.....The writing style isn't mine.

Is it possible that back in July 2010 you used a shared computer, and you left your account logged-in for someone else to access?

Anything is possible. Could have been my son visiting from Columbus jumped in......or that bottle of scotch. Hasn't happened since, lets not worry about it. Holland's "shill" remark caught my eye or I wouldn't have noticed at all.