Just heard on the news that the Toledo Area Humane Society has decided that Sarge is not going to be available for adoption. That's too bad. For this dog to survive such a horrible ordeal, only to have to be put down, is sad. So many people were interested in adopting him, even animal trainers.
No adoption for Sarge
Comments ... #
Maybe post shooting he was too traumatized for a home?
posted by OhioKimono on Jul 28, 2010 at 12:05:53 am #
WNWO yesterday evening said Sarge would not be available for adoption but didn't say why. This morning, WNWO said that Sarge was determined by the Humane Society to be "not fit" for adoption and "too aggressive." However, the anchor person this time said he would either be put to sleep, or given to a rescue group. The broadcast showed Sarge standing with a small spot on his head shaved and peering out of his cage. I really hope someone who is skilled can work with him. Sounds like he had a hard life.
That is such a shame-animals depend on us to take care of them and sometimes we are not fit to do that....
posted by lfcipriano on Jul 28, 2010 at 09:22:43 am #
I went to his website and sent a message I'll post any reply...But dont really expect any response here. Worth a shot I guess. Good Idea!
posted by ciscoexpert99 on Jul 28, 2010 at 02:19:23 pm #
Well, its an out of office reply....
Thank you for submitting your question for Cesar.Due to the high volume of questions we receive, we cannot respond to all emails individually. However, some of your questions may appear in the Ask Cesar column on CesarsWay.com.
posted by ciscoexpert99 on Jul 28, 2010 at 02:24:31 pm #
Ciscoexpert, I was going to do the same thing, but I couldn't find a direct link to the story that bikerdude mentioned, and then I got busy at work. I'll try to submit something, too. If nothing else, maybe it'll generate some interest from his people.
Giving Sarge to a rescue group might be a really great thing ... he would get plenty of love, and he'd be an excellent ambassador for their cause. Everyone is curious about him and would probably show up at events to see him. Perhaps the Humane Society has not figured out that angle for themselves yet ;-)
http://angeloncalldogrescue.org/
They're local.
The group's intake policy states: "We cannot take in any with known or documented bite events. We simply cannot take the chance that a bite would not happen in the future to an adoptive family or person." So that wouldn't work for Sarge. I hope there's a rescue out there that has experience with this type of thing. That way, if Sarge is still a danger, we would at least know he was given another chance with an expert who gave it his best.
Don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but it doesn't look good for Sarge according to the latest info: http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20100803/NEWS16/8020376
Sarge should go to a sanctuary if they want him. I have a feeling the humane society is recommending against it.
It would be wonderful if Best Friends would take him. Or if they could exert influence that you and I don't have on Cesar Milan.
If you've never heard of Best Friends, they are a national animal welfare organization on par with the ASPCA and the HSUS -- except Best Friends actually runs its own incredible sanctuary with hundreds of animals there, not just dogs and cats but they take barn yard animals, exotics, birds, etc. They are in Kanab, Utah and don't shy away from the hardest of hard-luck cases -- they have a soft spot for animals with disabilities, for example. They will also take animals deemed "unadoptable" and promise them a home for life, as they did with, IIRC, around 20 of Michael Vick's pit bulls. (Read more about them and their "No More Homeless Pets" initiatives at www.bestfriends.org.)
However, everybody wants to get their "hard luck" cases into Best Friends, and so it's VERY hard to get an animal admitted there. They simply don't have the room to take every animal that needs them.
Sadly, I fear Sarge is destined to become a poster dog for what happens when you abuse or neglect an animal, and fail to provide it with stability, socialization and humane training -- if they can't be rehabilitated, they die. I believe that 99 percent of dogs are born "good." This is what happens when humans mess one of them up.
(oops, www.bestfriends.org without the period)
Best Friends would be the ideal solution for Sarge and I'd be happy to contact them if he hasn't been put down yet. Their rescues include some of Michael Vick's dogs, who have made huge recoveries since being released to this organization.
Cesar Millan, although I give you cudos for thinking outside the box and reaching for help, is a disgrace to trainers and behaviorists alike. His methods are dated and ignorant, and in time only increase aggression and anxiety problems. This is because he employs intimidation in his training, not positive reinforcement. And that bit with applying force to the dog's throat with a lead...ever hear of a damaged or collapsed trachea, Mr. Millan? The pressure from repeated chokes or "pinches" does just that, especially on the most sensitive area where he instructs viewers to place the controversial pinch collar.
posted by dralionagogo on Aug 04, 2010 at 02:24:37 pm #
Draliongogo, i must have missed that episone, because i've never seen it on one of his shows. Those things are cruel, however i've met a few PEOPLE who deserve them.
I agree that Cesar Milan's more dramatic techniques are simply not necessary for your average, everyday household pet who just has a few quirky behavior problems.
However, I wouldn't call him a disgrace, and I agree with many of his philosophies; for example, giving your dog "exercise, discipline and affection" in that order, and his ideas that good pack leadership from humans can solve or prevent many problems. I am not sure what you are referring to about applying force to a dog's throat? I've never seen him use a pinch collar? I HAVE seen him, while walking a dog who doesn't walk well on a leash, sort of snap the leash to refocus a dog's attention forward. If the dog is on a short lead and therefore by your side, the snap -- not a yank or tug -- will exert force to the side of the dog's neck, not his throat. Far more collapsed tracheas are caused by dogs, particularly little brachycephalics, who pull and pull on their leashes and whose owners never train them to walk properly and/or won't put them in a harness.
People should keep in mind that Cesar's forte and his training methods are most appropriate for "Red Zone" cases, like Sarge sounds to be.
"Red Zone" cases usually are put down. They are deemed unsafe for the general population. That being the case, I don't think people's suggestions about Cesar Milan were really out of line for Sarge. I only know of two places that will accept "Red Zone," people-aggressive dogs with a history of biting: Cesar Milan and Best Friends. Sarge has few options. If you know of others, please post them.
Though he does on most accounts use the lead to "snap" the dog back into place, I have seen him use and encourage pinch collars on occasion. Perhaps an old episode? However, any restraint and tension against a dog's throat can cause damaged/collapsed trachea. This is why harnesses, specially designed harnesses to correct problem walkers, are my only choice. There are also other humane ways of correcting these problems that I also use with the harness.
I can't argue with the guardian needing to be alpha. Allowing your dog to play that role only causes problems and stress for them. But i disagree with his techniques, as do many behaviorists and veterinarians.
The biggest problem I see with Cesar's methods is the aftermath. Intimidation only works so long before the dog says enough! Red zone cases often involve the alpha roll. I use to watch Cesar too ;) The alpha roll is when Cesar manipulates the dog onto their back to demonstrate dominance, showing the dog they're to take a submissive role instead. Take it for what it is. Man tossing dog onto their back forcefully and repeatedly. This momentarily sets back the dog's aggressive or dominant streak, but it never lasts. This is because it's not an honest correction, it's a forced behavior.
You're right, few people would take Sarge. And sorry, but I don't know of anyone else either. Although if i didn't have a dog and there were a chance of HS handing him over to me, I certainly would give it a try. It's the rare dog who can't be corrected and like you, I find it hard to believe Sarge is one of them.
posted by dralionagogo on Aug 04, 2010 at 05:09:13 pm #
Yeah, but unfortunately, that's the problem -- the HS won't hand him over to you, or anyone like you.
FWIW, I do agree with your aversion to the alpha roll. I would not ever, personally, attempt it or encourage anyone to do it, either.
A lot of people complain about Cesar's alpha roll, but to tell you the truth -- although I'm not a religious watcher of the show, I've seen a vast majority of the episodes -- I don't see him use it on very many dogs at all. He has, though, on dogs that are already struggling against him, or biting and snarling at him or jerking to get free of him. That's not an excuse, and it doesn't make me OK with it, but some critics like to pretend that Cesar is alpha-rolling every dog who potties on the carpet or barks at the mailman, when that's not the case.
And most people know that dogs WANT to be under control of someone. Not violently obviously, but that makes them feel the safest.
I always thought Cesar Millan was the last choice of people who had pets with very difficult problems and they were considering either putting them down or surrendering them. In such cases, he has done more good than harm.
But what good is it when the correction not only doesn't last, but often leaves the dog more anxious and insecure than before? Cesar has every opportunity to study new methods, learn, grow. Yet he refuses to retire the techniques his grandpa taught him. Training has come a long way since his grandpa's time.
posted by dralionagogo on Aug 04, 2010 at 10:35:30 pm #
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then, on whether Cesar Milan's methods are ever useful.
Meanwhile, does anyone have any update on Sarge? Tuesday's Fox News-36 story actually uses the word "vicious," which leads me to believe his fate is most likely sealed. ( http://www.foxtoledo.com/dpp/news/local/Sarge-bites-trainer--vet )
This article appears to be the most recent on Sarge. It states that the director of the humane society is leaning heavily toward rescue or sanctuary. I hope the humane society is able to find someone who has qualifications to take Sarge.
http://www.presspublications.com/from-the-press/4985-humane-society-seeks-a-better-outcome-for-sarge
Best Friends would be great for Sarge. AT least he would be well taken care of. This case has me so upset. There are ways to deal with aggressive dogs besides shooting the defensless animal while it is trapped in a cage. I wrote to Best Friends two days ago pretty much begging them to please accept this poor animal.
As for Cesar Milan.... I believe his methods are good- strict but good. I do not employ all of them on my dog but some of them I do and I have not had any issues. I can say this for the man: He has done a lot for the so-called "dangerous breeds" by showing that, with the right owner and consistent discipline, dogs like pit bulls can be good pets.
Thanks for posting the story, Renegade!posted by golddustwoman on Aug 08, 2010 at 08:03:12 pm #
With a greater understanding of behavior, today's behaviorists and trainers are now using positive methods to modify even the most extreme behaviors in dogs with great results. This includes dogs with severe aggression problems that may be facing euthanasia, or "red zone" dogs.
This does not mean, however, that the dog is not given boundaries, firm rules or is only responsive when treats are present. Positive training and behavior modification methods start with setting clear boundaries and controlling the resources in the dog's life, including affection and play, which are not given to the dog for free or on demand. This is done in a way that sets the owner up to succeed, so that they can control their attention, but still enjoy their dog's company and affection.
If dog owners don't set these rules and boundaries, they will be forced to rely on punishment, as they will have no other means to motivate their dogs. Many of these dog owners give the dog what it wants for free or on demand (i.e., becoming submissive) then punish the dog for assuming a "dominant" role. This is not a dog behavior problem, but a human behavior problem.
posted by dralionagogo on Aug 09, 2010 at 05:56:53 pm #
Renegade: Anything new on Sarge?
posted by golddustwoman on Aug 10, 2010 at 03:17:24 pm #
I am so happy! Hopefully, they can make him people friendly again and he can have a forever home!
posted by golddustwoman on Aug 20, 2010 at 03:43:03 pm #
Will Best Friends keep him no matter what or can Sarge still be destroyed if they cannot rehabilitate him? Whatever happens, at least we know everyone did all they could to save him. Thanks to Mr. Dinion for his commitment to finding a sanctuary for Sarge.
I'm glad this extra group has stepped in to help.
It looks like they need help raising money for Sarge's transport.
posted by OhioKimono on Aug 20, 2010 at 11:27:05 pm #
Thank God for Best Friends. Seriously, do some research on this organization if you are just hearing about them for the first time -- they are a wonderful organization.
Bikerdude, from everything I know about Best Friends, if Sarge is deemed unadoptable, they will still promise him lifetime care. I don't suppose they can rule out euthanasia if, say, Sarge repeatedly injures staff members there or if Sarge is found to have some progressive disease that affects his temperament. But from what I know of them, they will do everything absolutely possible to save his life, even if he cannot ever be adopted out or even if only certain staff members are allowed to work with him.
If you go to the Humane Society's web site you can donate to Sarge's transportation costs. I believe he left on the 19th.
Oops.... he did not leave on the 19th, they were granted permission to transport him on that date.
Very happy to hear he has been saved. I had been wondering about his fate. Thanks for the update.
Well... this certainly isn't good. He's bitten another person.
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100831/NEWS16/8300397
posted by toledolen_ on Aug 31, 2010 at 01:51:02 pm #
Well, it sounds like all this will do is delay his trip to Utah. Maybe there the people will have enough sense to stay at arms length until he gets settled in. Why the fudge is some employees wife screwing around near him anyway? I really can’t garner any sympathy for the broad, sorry. Especially after seeing some poor dog running down Benore last night with a huge sack hanging off of him. Dogs rule – people not so much. Good luck Sarge – I hope you get to a safe place soon.
At this point - If I were Sarge I would bite a human too! Shesh.
Did anyone catch that he's made a buddy that is going with him to Utah? Kinda of a warm fuzzy in the huge mess.
Great, another human IDIOT messing up this dog's road to rehabilitation.
Certainly Best Friends will still take him but dang, 10 more days of quarantine is yet more psychological punishment for this poor dog.
And I hate the idea of him traveling cargo but I suppose there's no other feasible alternative.
As for the employee and his wife, I am sorry she got bitten but that is exactly WHY the humane society could not adopt him out to the general public. Sarge has serious problems that a friendly pat and a "Hi, Doggie!" won't solve. Only expert behaviorists should've been anywhere near him and it sounds like Mr. Dinon acknowledges that.
I can't believe staff at TAHS would allow anyone to have access to Sarge due to his very well publicized bite history. Geez, I can't even open a cage to pet a kitten at the TAHS without getting approval first.
Why the hell was the wife in with the dog? She isnt an employee, and had no business being in with the traumatised dog.
posted by OhioKimono on Aug 31, 2010 at 11:52:18 pm #
In defense of the staffer who gave access to Sarge I wouldn't judge him too harshly. Everybody wants this dog to be happy and trusting. Jekyll-Hyde dogs are the most difficult to fathom. With a history of abandonment and torture, its hard to predict an outcome.
Might be time to pull the plug on Sarge. Is it worth the trouble for one dog who seemingly has had a horrific life, based on the previous postings going all the way back to the carry-out.
Sometimes a little “trouble” is necessary. Has anyone checked out the website of that sanctuary? Sarge and his buddy have their best days ahead of them.
That is if the idiots downtown can leave him alone for a few more days.
Everybody wants this dog to be happy and trusting. Jekyll-Hyde dogs are the most difficult to fathom
I can see your point, Holland. I wouldn't have gone near him myself, but I wonder if a staff member gave this person some misinformation, like "he won't bite if you pet him" or something like that.
I am so pissed I am fuming! No, I am going to judge this so called staff member. The dog has bitten prior. It is traumatized. What part of that did this dumb ass not comprehend? Because of his and his wife's total ignorance and, frankly, negligence, this poor animal is still stuck in Toledo, in a cage, in pain, for the next 10 days. He should be in Utah by now being treated by people who know what they are doing with these types of dogs! I hope this guy was fired!
posted by golddustwoman on Sep 01, 2010 at 07:58:52 pm #
This animal should be put down now. It will never be safe to be around.
Deere1, perhaps you're right -- perhaps Sarge will never learn to tolerate human kindness. And perhaps such a movement to save him isn't fair to the countless other dogs and cats who die every day in Northwest Ohio and beyond who are highly adoptable, yet there is no where for them to go.
On the other hand, Sarge has garnered our attention because of the tremendous cruelty he endured. If his owner would've done what anyone else would do -- surrender a "mean" and "biting" dog to the dog warden -- Sarge would've been euthanized humanely with no fanfare and few would care or even notice. But since his owner chose to something that horrifies anyone with even an ounce of compassion in them, people care to see this dog given a last chance. It's like he's OWED that, you know?
Best Friends is Sarge's last chance, and as I wrote earlier, I don't suppose they can 100-percent rule out euthanasia. They can't 100-percent guarantee that they can rehabilitate Sarge. But at Best Friends, all Sarge has to do is learn to co-exist with people -- he won't have to learn to love them or even like them. They have special areas at Best Friends' Dogtown where hard-to-handle dogs are kept separate from the general population -- although if there is a dog that the special cases get along with, like in this case, Poppy, Best Friends will probably house them together for companionship and so that Poppy can model appropriate behavior. Only their most expert staff members will work with Sarge, and they know to take it very slow. Don't forget that this is the same staff that has rehabbed 22 of Micheal Vick's TRAINED-TO-FIGHT pitbulls and turned them into tail-wagging lap dogs: http://network.bestfriends.org/groups/pitbullspecialfeature/news/archive/2009/08/19/pittie-city-meet-some-of-the-rescued-dogs-at-best-friends.aspx
jmleong: Best Friends would not euthanize Sarge. If he is unable to be changed they will offer him a home for keeps at Dog Town. BF has been charged with keeping two of the Vick dogs permanently because of a judges orders.
I was lucky enough to catch the series Dog Town when it ran for 2 or 3 years on National Geographic. What a wonderful group of people.
You are right. Many dogs are put down without fanfare. This poor dog, shot six times by "his" people, survived and should be given a chance at a happy life. If you look at pictures of him, you can see the fear, torment and pain in his eyes. It sickens me to think humans can do this...posted by golddustwoman on Sep 02, 2010 at 12:58:42 pm #
GDD, I agree that euthanasia is quite unlikely at Best Friends.
But like I wrote earlier, if Sarge repeatedly injures staff members (the chances of which will be greatly minimized due to their methods and experience) or if he is found to have a progressive disease that physiologically, irreversibly affects his temperament (say, dementia or brain tumor, just for example, or pain from his injuries that for some reason cannot be managed), no one in Toledo, Ohio can guarantee what the folks in Kanab, Utah will do.
I have first-hand experience working with Best Friends dating back to Hurricane Katrina. Without going into the details, I will just say that I trust them completely.
I agree with you jmleong! Cool that you worked with them. I hope for Sarge's sake that he is healthy and able to overcome whatever demons he has.
posted by golddustwoman on Sep 02, 2010 at 02:15:32 pm #
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Why not? Did they say?
posted by hockeyfan on Jul 27, 2010 at 11:19:35 pm #