Will Work for Food

Just last weekend I saw two young guys with signs so I ran through a drive thru and got them something. They were very appreciative. I used to give money but one time the guy I gave three dollars to whipped out a literal wad of money when he went to put it away. We talked about Cherry Street Mission and he wanted no part of it. After I left I wonder if I had been had. But I remember the very first time I stopped with food for someone. This guy was over the moon that I was handing him some McDonalds. The truck next to me gave me the thumbs up sign and I drove away shaking. I think I got more out of that then the man with the food did. I suggest you do what you feel is right at the time.

As far as why you don’t see as many in the winter is most likely because during severe weather people will use missions. When the weather permits I suppose many still rather not if they have an option. They are still human beings with pride and dignity.

I mostly avoid them, and when the charitable urge strikes, I find a worthwhile charity. I saw a guy with a sign claiming he was stranded and homeless, needing money for bus fare to get back to Florida. Then I saw the same dude, with the same sign, at the same corner. Three months later.

Either he was a scammer, or he blew the bus fare money on booze and/or dope. Regardless, there are better ways to help the needy than tossing money at roadisde beggars, and there are the rare stories of crooks who pose as beggars and then carjack or steal purses from unwitting victims. Better safe than sorry.

I won't give them cash straight out but I have no problem buying them something to eat if they want it. I do know the person you are talking about Swantucky because my wife works over by spring meadows and I've seen him a few times when I've had to drop her off or pick her up.

If they want cash they have to work for it. I've offered a few the opportunity to work the next day for 8 bucks an hour. All they had to do was meet me at the same spot and I would pick them up and drop them back off. Guess what they were never there.

While, i've also given food to some people who were homeless. I stay away from the people with the signs. I've seen so many people that are wearing nicer clothes than me, i heard somewhere that that can actually be quite profitable.

I think we've all been taken by a street "charity" scam at one point or another.
I too, am skeptical of the many "sign people" that have appeared recently but still give to those who look the part. There is one guy around the west toledo-Laskey area that looks legit. Although he looks younger, he sleeps on benches and carries all his belongings with him apparently. I have not been able to give him anything, but I haven't seen him with a sign either.
The 2 guys that I will not give to are the ones that I've seen at the BP on the corner of Sylvania and Talmadge. One walks around in brand new socks, but no shoes and points to his feet while holding his sign. Good salesmanship.
The other guy has one complete leg and the other is gone from the knee down. He also has a sign.
I'd love to see how much these guys make in an average day.

I had a cousin who worked for a landscaping company, and with his boss's full approval, he'd offer anybody holding a will work for food sign a job. he'd pull over and say hop in and we'll go mow and rake some lawns - and he'd offer them the same per hour rate as anyone else that was starting out with them. He was NEVER ONCE taken up on his offer!!

I never give cash but i often buy them beer or snacks.

The "street charity" scam is simple. They are predators. They prey on your natural pity and desire to assist, as long as that assistance is limited in time and amount. They put on as piteous a show as possible. And then they pocket the cash each day and make their way over to the local drug establishment for whatever addictive substance they prefer.

Remember, they don't seek "help" at the local charities since those charities are fairly intolerant of drug addiction.

Anyone in Toledo who claims to be hungry, and who begs for food (noting well that "donations accepted" is the real part of the ploy), has probably been told numerous times that the Madison Food Center exists and serves food for free to anyone who shows up, DAILY. The guys begging around downtown can easily walk to the Food Center on Madison Ave. It's run by the Cherry St Mission.

But of course, they aren't after the food. Food doesn't get them high. They are after money, which can be fairly quickly and in a straightforward way, converted into some sort of addictive drug.

I want everyone reading this to understand explicitly: When you give money to a beggar or bum in Toledo, it is almost certainly the case that you're supporting the trade in illegal drugs.

Also, Hockeyfan: If the guy in the "west toledo-Laskey" area is who I think it is, I have to warn you that he's been directly observed trying to get into the houses of women that seem alone. We in the area are now wise to his game, and so should you be.

You can often see this guy with a sign, standing in the median strip of the Krogers entrance off Alexis Rd, near Lewis Ave. BEWARE!

Advice to the ladies: If you open that door to someone like this, keep the screen door LOCKED.

I used to see the younger, no shoes guy at Sylvania and Talmadge on a near daily basis - haven't seen him for a while.

He used to stand there trying to hide his cigarette behind his sign. Really? You're begging for cash but somehow can afford smokes at $6 a pack - or whatever the heck they cost these days.

GZ and hockeyfan, could you both provide descriptions of the young guy you've seen in the west Toledo-Laskey area? I'm in that area and there has been a young guy in my neighborhood looking for odd jobs to earn money. Claims that both of his parents have passed away and he's crashing in back of a friend's garage. I haven't made up my mind whether I believe him or not.

The guy I believe is legit in the Laskey area has never had a sign that I know of. I recognize him by how he looks younger and seems to always have a backpack with him. First time I saw him, I thought he was a runner out on a run. He was wearing red shorts tied with thin rope or string last time I saw him on Laskey near fire department building.

I look at it this way, if I feel charitable and have a few dollars, I will help someone out. And I feel good that I was able to pay it forward, maybe make a difference. I can not dwell on what I think they may do with the money. If that's what I am worried about, the guy taking my money and buying alcohol or drugs, then it's not worth my time to help someone out.

I would be more willing to give if their sign read "I need Beer Money!". At least I know they are honest.

Personally, I donate my money and time to charities I know and trust. There are many social out reach places for the homeless - these charities are in NEED.

$5.00 at Mcdonalds..is 10 cans of veggies & meat to feed 5 people a soup in a shelter. Your money goes further and better then buying fast food for a homeless person, or giving them money.

Sorry, but money to the "main" distributor is not always going to help the person in front of me who is hungry NOW.

I still say do what you feel is best at any given moment. A jaded society is a sad one indeed.

I don't give money to the people with signs, as I'm certain that 99.999% of them are con artists.

There has been a girl for quite some time standing downtown at one of the exit ramps from I-75 with a sign saying "pregnant, need assistance.". I'm pretty sure that she's a con artist too - looks more heavy-set than pregnant, and has been out there for longer than you'd expect that stage of pregnancy to last.

Not to mention that pregnant poor women are eligible for more types of assistance than the average poor person. I find it hard to believe that a pregnant woman couldn't get access to food assistance, whether through WIC, a charity, etc.

Yeah, actually it always is.

I agree with OhioKimono. If you want to help out then give your time and money to a charity that is known to you.

GZ is right about the drug trade. By giving away cash you are likely supporting the illegal drug trade.

Sorry, Mike, but it takes FOREVER to roll nickles!

There was an expose down in West Palm Beach about these panhandlers. 70%, after their "shift", wander to a secluded area, change clothes and hop into their nice cars and head home.

And I have a bridge down there I would like to sell you.

Wow, this has turned into an interesting subject. I appreciate all of your input. I dont feel quite so bad that I dont give to them.

There is a young guy and a girl who work the Corey Rd exit and the corner of Corey and Sylvania. I have given them money once, and after I thought about it I realized that I did nothing to improve their situation, if the sign is true they are still homeless. A number of people handed the guy cash the day I did, it was near Christmas time. So I made up mind that the next time I saw one of them I would stop and ask what they are doing to help themselves. Females with children will qualify for assistance, and can apply for Section 8 housing. As for the homeless guys they could be staying at the Mission or one of the other places. There are a number of places around town to get a free meal. I really do think most of them are scammers.

I was at the grocery store once - I think it was when Farmer Jacks was at Holland. I saw a lady counting change in front of the meat counter. She was looking at a roast. I didn't have a lot of money with me. When I got in the car I felt bad. I have sworn to myself that if I ever see that again I will buy and eat peanut butter that night.

I have no need for a bridge, I own a boat.

but I can only imagine what that bridge is costing you in taxes...

Some of these shelters are not safe places, and homeless people sometimes prefer to sleep in the park or wherever than go to a shelter. Some are also mentally ill and don't want to go through the system again, for whatever reason. I don't have a problem giving a few dollars to beggars. But I think you do have to trust your gut on whether you're getting scammed.

Not all shelters are safe - however food banks, and other outreach programs are much safer. They provide food are a more effective means, and make $5 go far. $5 at McDoland's is a one time meal for 1 person...at a shelter you feed several people.

A pregnant woman, and women with children will automatically qualify for section 8 housing, and food programs. There's no excuse or reason for a woman with children to be homeless.

http://www.cherrystreetmission.org/programs.htm

Street corner beggars make me very uncomfortable and a little fearful. I never give. If open, I close my car windows if I'm stuck at a traffic light where they are stationed. I agree with others who have pointed out that there are numerous credible charitable agencies where these folks can turn for assistance. I choose to support those agencies. I can accept that folks can have a drastic and ugly turn of circumstances through no fault of their own. Unless mentally incompetant, they should seek help from organizations equipped to handle their needs and am automatically suspicious of those who don't.

I'd like to see someone do a "stake out" from one of the news stations and watch what some of these "beggers" do. Today I saw 2 hispanic guys on either end of the 475 overpass over secor. They had the exit ramps covered, one at each end.

I am sure, like everything, there are some taking advantage of other's generousity. I'll continue to use my "judgement" on who I choose to help. If it looks fake or like a scam, I won't, but if they look legit, I'll play the sucker and lose some money in an effort to help. I'm not sure what I'd do if I was in the same situation. I don't know if I'd enter a shelter or make a sign. I do know that someone being generous and giving me some money would help, so I'll do it and hope I'm never in that position.

In the meantime, anyone want to join me in doing some volunteer watching some of these people to actually see what they do? I have some time to devote for finding out the truth for all of us talkers"

Why dont folks start getting pictures of these people and we start a thraed on here with their photos along with date cited?

Ill start getting pics.

This is something that was going on in CA recently. Read it and learn: http://gawker.com/5570130/meet-crying-girl-californias-celebrity-grifter

"Crying girl first appeared on DavisWiki, the college town's community website, in March of 2010. Residents described a girl who would approach them with tears streaming from her eyes, weeping that she had either had a fight with her boyfriend or lost her mother. She'd then ask for $40 for a train ticket, "give or take a few dollars to lend legitimacy." Dozens of Davis-dwellers testified to the scam, leading bloggers and local media to crowdsource a manhunt on the mysterious girl. Jill Johnson was eventually outed; DavisWiki users provided links to her MySpace and now-pseudonymous Facebook profiles. (The latter of which shows her posing with beauty pageant trophies.) Internet users documented crying girl's friends, ruses, favorite locations for scamming, getaway vehicles, a license plate number, and swapped digital pictures."

While in Chicago we had a woman come up to us crying, flashing a fake ID from Indiana. That she needed $40 to get home because she'd been mugged and lost her car. She had no way to get home and was all alone...

SCAM!

I'll get some pics too. Maybe we can establish when these people leave their "posts". Then, we can watch them around that time to see where they go.

I see these scammers everywhere, and some are very aggressive about it, especially seeing a woman alone in a car. I had this happen to me several times over the last few months. Ignore them and drive away....don't put yourself at risk.

Cherry Street Mission does great work.

So you are going to start following and taking pictures of these people????

That’s really sick. And strange.

Ryan...actually yea. I have a few such people near me and it dawned on me to observe them over time. A good example would be this "pregnant" woman - who has been pregnant for ...how long?

There's one guy who has a hitch hiking sign up 'hitchhiking home, need money for food', Ive seen him at least 3 times now by one of the exits.

Oh, there is a "pregnant woman" that's been spotted multiple times over years begging around Uptown. She's not pregnant... she's wearing a fake belly!

Yep - saw the "pregnant woman" last Saturday night after the Hens game on our way home. She was on Cherry near the grounds of the Greek Orthodox Church.

Gotta give these folks credit for their nerve. But, as others have posted, I don't put myself or others in my car at risk as I have no idea what their intentions may be.

Must be the same "pregnant" woman I've seen, b/c I work near downtown.

I just say a guy on the Corey road exit of 475 says he will work for food. About 1pm. Thought about this thread. He looked about 70 and was leaning against something.

Poor Ryan. He hates it when people act in accordance to their own power, and become more knowledgeable about their own society.

We've told you before, Ryan: Your mainstream-media reflexes and tricks just don't work here on the Internet.

Keep it up, though. Maybe in the midst of your ever increasing frustration, you'll have an aneurysm and we'll finally be blessed with your silence.

LOL! If running around with a cameraphone taking pics of panhandlers gives you wood GZ, have at it. It's just that I have better things to do.

Sorry about your luck.

Better things to do? Like post on toledo talk from your mom's basement waiting for her to make you some pizza rolls?

I don't know how you made the connection between trying to find out who is a fake panhandler and wood. If you do have better things to do, go do them.

I always seem to get panhandled at Krogers, especially the one at Lewis and Alexis.

However, I had a really interesting experience at Kroger's at Miracle Mile...that was the FIRST time I got panhandled by a guy DRIVING through the parking lot.

His van was nicer than my car.

He said he needed money for heart medication for his wife (there was a sleepy woman in the seat next to him).

I NEVER give to panhandlers...

As noted by homeless people themselves in interviews I have seen/heard, basic, good quality food is always available. No one starves unless they refuse to go to shelter/church/social services.

As for medicine, TRULY down-and-out have better access than most WORKING POOR to medical care and prescription drugs.

It's the people in-between (still working, but not earning enough) that are the most likely to be hurt, and their pride almost always prevents them from seeking help, let alone panhandling in public.

Buddy, can you spare a dime?
Yep, but I think I will buy some gum balls instead.

Ryan - I'm having a laugh at your expense. Way to exaggerate the situation.

Why dont folks start getting pictures of these people and we start a thraed on here with their photos along with date cited?

Ill start getting pics.

Oh, okay.

Did I suggest that we go out of our way? Naw, casually moving about in our life we encounter and see this stuff. I'm not wasting time on these people, but find the culture interesting and worth sharing. It's funny, to dangerous.

Your just loosing your cool over...what? Taking a photo of figure in public, exploiting other people?

We make our own luck, Ryan. I'll tell you again that you cannot shame or cajole us into being simpering followers of Liberal doctrine, like the mainstream media does all the time. We have power as a people, and we're going to track down and put a stop to criminal activity and scams. Lead, follow, or get out of the way. Those are your only real options here ... not your incessant whining that free people are exerting their moral authority.

How am I losing my cool? Just think it's a silly/sick thing to do. Do you really think there are people out there doing this because they are just too lazy to go into that cushy office job? Anyway, you won't deter or change anything except I guess make yourself feel better somehow. You may want to look into the reason for that with some of your free time.

I live around exit five off 23 in michigan and every day I come home from where there's a younger guy there with a sign. I've always thought it was suspicious because he was getting in the cab of a semi truck who turned left to the truck/rest stops. I also saw a female there the other day with a short skirt, low cut top and these high to her knee hooker boots on talking to the truck drivers. I'm pretty sure somethings going on over there.

What? Hookers at truck stops? No way, Stooks.

:-)

Ryan - actually I think worse and lower of the people like the woman who pretends to be pregnant. That they are worse then lazy to cook up these scams for pity to expoit other peoples feelings for money.

GZ, have at it. It's just that I have better things to do.

apparently not...

About a week ago, we were working near Bancroft and Detroit. A guy walks up and asks if he could borrow a few bucks to get a sandwich. He looked rough and like he had been through the ringer. My co-worker and I were both nearly tapped out and not really inclined to donate to a suspect charity case. He walked off. A short time later, the police stopped him just up the road. He ends up in their back seat in handcuffs.

They roll up to us and ask if we had contact with him. Apparently, after having no luck with us he takes a short detour onto Academy St. He asks someone sitting on a porch for a gas can and a few dollars, stating that he just ran out of gas. That person is positive that they are talking to the "serial stabber" and calls the police.

The police show up, check the stabber and recognize that he is not the stabber but rather a well known thief and house burglar with hellacious drug habit and several warrants.

For me, this is a sad thread. It has been said that in the last 20 years there has been a backlash against the poor and that our morals as human beings have all but disappeared. All you have to do is read the news or watch tv to get bombarded with people who scam people, men killing their families and themselves, assholes shooting dogs in cages, etc., etc., etc. It is demoralizing to think that you have to fear for your lives if you even come across someone asking for change.
I went through a lot of financial crap over the years and had to turn to a charity to help with bills and to get Christmas donations for my kids so they would have something.
Now that my dad passed and left me some money, I have adopted families for the holidays the last two years and have been in line at Kroger's when the person in front of me has to put things back because they do not have enough money- I usually pay for their groceries. The look of shock and humiliation and then gratefulness on their faces makes up for the money I just spent.
Yes, now days, I guess we all have to be careful and leary- that, in itself, is sad.

You know whose meal I do pay for when given the opportunity? Anytime I see a serviceman in uniform getting a restaurant meal I anonymously pick up the tab. I don't care if they ever saw combat or ever left the states for that matter. If they wear the uniform that's enough for me.

You know, the real problem with Ryan is that when a thought crosses his mind, it's the shortest trip in North America.

I never said you're losing your cool, Ryan, Mr Straw-Man Placer. I said you're indulging in "incessant whining".

Billy's got you sussed. You can't let go of this topic, since you are watching people here smash the carefully constructed "approved view" of the matter in the usual media. The media won't tell us that most of the homeless are there by choice. They won't tell us that those people are largely unrepentant drug addicts. They won't tell us that the homeless prey upon each other whenever given the chance. It's the Liberal mindset gone wild, and we're here to speak the truth to the smothering power of such propaganda ... the propaganda of silence, which you obviously rely on with your stupid one-liners.

^Again, too wordy. (I bet you got alot of that written on top of papers at school).

And I was responding to OhioKimono, it ain't all about you, lmao.

My father worked as a security guard for one of the buildings downtown for about 10 years. This building had a coffee shop inside and about every week, there would be some homeless guy who would come in and pay for a cup of coffee and sit there to drink it (and warm up).

The people (workers) in the building used to give my dad all kinds of crap asking why he didn't kick out this rather pungent (i.e. smelly) individual with his bags of stuff around the table. My dad would always respond that the individual had paid for the cup of coffee and had every right to drink it on the property, smelly or not. This person always left after finishing his cup and never loitered.

I wish I had a charitable heart like my father to help defend the people who need a moment of normalcy. Too often, I lump everyone in the same category as bums and move along. And many of them are useless bums. But my dad helped someone retain his dignity and I wish I had that capacity.

Thank you Holland. And may God Bless you for your charity to our service men and women. I appreciate it.

Holland, bless you.

I don't know about working for food, but unemployed bloggers will snark for food.

Ryan, your anti-intellectual bias is showing as clearly as a red flag in a bullfight.

Anyway, oldhometown, you're talking about a homeless person who behaves himself like a citizen should. What I'm talking about are people who do not behave at all. They defraud people. They accost people. They take addictive drugs (and alcohol -- tell me how many empty liquor bottles you see littering downtown each morning). And ultimately, they become burglars and thieves.

We're after the harmful bums, not the purely indigent. The purely indigent have nothing to fear from our ire.

You're being trolled, Ryan. I'm sure you know this.

I'm okay with upso's actions. When I lived in Ann Arbor, I had no problem giving some change to somebody asking for money to buy some booze. Whatever gets you through the night. I could certainly spare some change.

I don't know that I'm really comfortable with people who have means taking photos of panhandlers so that they can be discussed on a public forum, but that just means I won't participate.

Careful you don't sprain your wrist.

Sollecks: thanks for the post.

Many of the homeless are mentally ill and are self-medicating with various drugs, which leads to crime.

I had an interesting discussion with a woman at work on this topic. She said there are pretty clear instructions in the Bible for what to do when someone asks you for money. I don't know the verse, but her understanding was that JC Himself said that you should give something. I have been wondering if that extends to people who merely hold up signs asking for money, instead of speaking to me directly ... ;-)

My coworker would give them a dollar, and tell them that she worked hard for the money, and she expected the recipient to go forward in life and bless other people. I admire that, and I admit, I don't live up to that ideal in my own life. But her response has given me something to think about.

Right on Holland!It is good to hear so many people feeling that way about SM's.All I ever got was kind of a indifferent look, but then again I never expected anymore so I was never disappointed ;-)
This is very interesting thread, in DC a few years ago a TV station did some research and found one of these guys made 40k tax free dollars /year.As a small business owner that is salary for a good year!!

"Many of the homeless are mentally ill and are self-medicating with various drugs, which leads to crime."

"Many of the Toledo Talk posters are mentally ill and are self-medicating with various drugs, which leads to stupidity."

6 of one, half dozen of the other.

Sorry, DHR, but you can't control the topic. It's even sorrier that you resort so quickly to ad hominem attacks in your attempt to do so.

On N. Holland-Sylvania, sometimes at W. Bancroft, sometimes at W. Central, is a guy sitting on a cloth bag, holding a sign that reads "Homeless, Broke, and Ugly". The sign is held up high so it partially obsures the guy's face so he can see you but you can't see him. Today it was a man in his 30s. Last week it was a man in his late 50s holding the same sign. I'm not sure if they have a legitimate appeal or not but it looks like a team operation.

Small point: When I buy a serviceman/woman a meal I don't think of it as charity. I think of it as gratitude.

They see it the same way Holland :-)

I like to think there is a difference between helping those truly in need and being taken advantage of. I have no problem giving in good faith that you are helping. Being "scammed" burns my biscuits a little bit.

That's exactly the way I feel, hockeyfan. And I was hoping that maybe someone could shed some light on the situation I've been dealing with, but it appears unique to our neighborhood, at least for now.

I had a young man come to my door a month or so ago, telling me that both of his parents were dead (one of them a few years ago, the other just a few months ago) and that he'd been living in a room with weekly rent, but he'd run out of money and was effectively out on the streets. He said he was a really hard worker and wanted to know if I had anything he could do to earn a few bucks.

Normally, if someone comes to my door uninvited, I send them on their way pretty quickly. Something about this kid reminded me of one of my sons, who is currently in Philly and has himself fallen on a few hard times when I've been eight hours away from being able to easily help him.

I asked the kid his name and he told me it was Joe. I asked him how old he was and he said he was 19. I paid him $25 to mow and edge (that hadn't been done in more than a year) my yard. He did a fantastic job and offered to stay and help me sweep. He thanked me profusely. I gave him a bottle of water and he headed off down the street.

I was haunted by this kid for days afterward, trying to decide if he'd been lying to me or not and if I should have tried to find out more information about him. A few weeks later, he came back, but I had just spent a chunk of money on fixing my car, so I couldn't help him out. He showed up again a few weeks after that, and I paid him $15 to cut the grass.

I tried to get him talking a bit. I asked whether he'd looked into social services. He said he had, but that he needed his birth certificate and social security card to get an ID, which he had to have before he could apply for any benefits.

He's been back twice since then, but I've been home alone both times so I haven't opened the door. I'm part of that jaded world mentioned earlier. My house was broken into a year ago and I don't trust anyone I don't know.

And I really don't mind helping him out. He's really not scamming me, as he is actually working for the cash I pay him. But I would be pretty pissed off if I found out his story was a lie.

It's plausible to me. I talked to my kids about it. They lost their dad when they were nine. If something had happened to me when they were barely legal adults, they would have felt lost. I have made certain they have those important documents that this kid says he's missing, but I can easily see the remaining parent neglecting to think of those things, especially if he or she was dealing with an illness.

Part of me is hesitant to post this, lest you all think I'm a naive fool. And part of me is glad that I still give a rat's ass about people enough to possibly be a naive fool. Either way, I guess I'm interested in others' thoughts. Sorry for the length of this post.

valbee - if he's working hard for the money you give him and you're taking safety precautions (not letting a stranger in your house, not hiring him for yard work when you're home alone, etc.), then I don't think you're a naive fool.

You might want to mention to him where to obtain a copy of his birth certificate and social security card, just in case for some reason as a young guy he isn't aware. I suppose he might need some proof that he is who he says he is - perhaps that's what has been holding him back?

Yes, sorry, GuestZero...I know you need to be the center of attention around here.

In any case, I'm not certain where this conversation is supposed to go, aside from some sort of witch hunt. Either you want to give somebody some money or you don't. I don't think most sane people will look down on you for either choice.

Valbee,

It's possible that he doesn't have the documents needed. I think a new SS card costs money but know Birth Certs do cost money, I think like 20 bucks or so.

I know I had to get a birth cert and SS card for my brother-in-law when his dad passed away, and his mom didn't care and didn't know where they were. He moved in with us at 15 because his mom was stealing his SS death benefit money from him.

I volunteer once a month at a food pantry and I know there are many hungry Toledoans out there so I do what most others do-if I have it, I give it.

Valbee,
By helping that young man out it shows you have a civil code regarding humanity. It's never too soon to perform a kindness because you never know how soon it will be to late.

No need to apoligize for the long post; it's better to pour out your soul and clear your conscience.

Thought is deeper than all speech,
Feeling deeper than all thought;
Souls to souls can never teach
What unto themselves was taught.

- C.P. Cranch 1813-1892

I believe this has already been mentioned in this thread, but I have also provided a business card for people who were panhandling, telling them to give me a call or stop by and that I could provide them with a job. I've never had anybody contact me. I certainly don't hold that against any of them, but it's surely interesting.

DHR, that is really interesting. How many do you think you have given out?

Valbee did it the right way. Too many of the door-knockers are only looking to case your house for future burglary. And that the guy actually did the work, and did the work satisfactorily, shows well that he's probably legit.

As DHR should know, the panhandlers are just not in that category. They get free money for doing no work. So you can't honestly, sanely expect them to seek out a paying job. Panhandling is quite lucrative ... which is why I take pains to tell people to stop giving out money on the street. That, and the fact that the homeless are largely drug addicts, and giving them money only strengthens the illegal and legal drug trades.

Link charity to work, and do it safely, and we'll have a better society. But there will always be drug addicts, and we can't help them expect to clean up after them when they fall ill or die.

"DHR, that is really interesting. How many do you think you have given out?"

That's a good question. I used to do it regularly, but it was also at a time when we could have used an endless supply of employees! It's been a while since I've handed one out.

GuestZero got his statistics from the mainstream media, where they don't require valid sources.

No, GZ has obtained his hard-earned knowledge by observing these things through life, and by not living with his head in Liberal clouds of propaganda. The media instead tells us that the homeless are to be pitied and helped. Naturally, that leads to people taking the easy way out, of handing off cash on the streets. That cash supports the local drug trade. It does not improve the condition of the homeless. It is always thus when welfare is disconnected from oversight.

The anecdotes here of the repeat offenders show clearly that people are able to observe the same. With the Internet, we can transform those observations into a data source that can overcome the intense Liberal bias of the mainstream media on this issue. No wonder newspapers have lost so much readership. We're slowly but surely waking up to how much B.S. they've fed us over the decades.

Good for you, Valbee. The man needs money and is willing to work for it. Going door to door to solicit odd jobs is not easy, but a person can get by that way and it usually translates into a win-win scenario. If you feel afraid, pack your pistol on your hip and make sure your shotgun is loaded.

Oddly I saw the pregnant and homeless lady last night at the Best Buy on Monroe St. She was standing on the sidewalk with her sign around 9:00 PM. I didn't donate, but I was tempted to get a photo. I missed the opportunity.

GZ, if you feed the troll/sock puppet, it will continue to make a mess. Ignore it.

I swear it sounds like Limedrops on tranquilizers.

I once had my meal paid for. As I pulled up to the drive up window the cashier explained that my order was paid for by the car ahead of me. They explain that the person who paid said it was called paying it forward. I have paid it forward a couple of times since then. I never stick around for a thank you but just continue on my way with a good feeling.

Couple of random observations:

- Yesterday, I saw a woman standing on the island in the middle of Reynolds Rd. at Glendale. It was pretty hard to ignore her as she was about 3 feet from the drivers in the left turn lane. She had a sign saying "Lost Job." I was about three cars back and at least two of the cars in front of me gave her folding money. So I can see how that could be more lucrative than getting a job.

- I think mental illness is at work in a lot of the homeless folks, probably in conjunction with drug and alcohol abuse. The National Coalition for the Homeless estimates that about 38% of the homeless have alcohol issues while 20-25% have mental health issues.

http://www.nationalhomeless.org/factsheets/addiction.html

Despite having not talked to any of these people and having absolutely no sources or statistics that support any of GuestZero's claims, he apparently has "observed" all of these people taking money to buy drugs. Where he goes to watch these transactions, I'm not sure. And, of course, the troll-enabler madjack speaks up to lend his support.

I'll be over here in the real world where we research and handle our business.

According to GuestZero, the National Coalition for the Homeless is just a lying mainstream organization that provides incorrect statistics, only because GuestZero has "observed" the truth. Madjack agrees.

Its amazing how when ryan disapears dhr shows up in his place.

I'm not Ryan or dhr, and while I don't give money to the homeless for my own set of reasons, I also don't think it's fair or kind to vilify those that do give to them money. In the same breadth, it isn't remotely moral to judge those who do support the panhandlers.

But I do think it's silly in the least, and possibly illegal depending on what you do with those photos, to stalk and photograph the homeless. Actually, it's somewhat stomach turning.

Linecrosser: Its amazing how when ryan disappears dhr shows up in his place.

You know, now that you mention it... well, it really is quite a coincidence.

From Toledolen_ Actually, it's somewhat stomach turning.

You might try some Paregoric or one of these home remedies.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you read through the thread, you'll see that the idea of taking photos of the various professional beggars is in the speculation stage, as opposed to several users organizing their resources and submitting a bunch of photos.

AceFace, thanks for the link. I think it depends on the geographic involved. In L.A. you'd be likely to find half of the homeless are mentally ill, while here in Toledo it's probably close to one in five or six, especially given the lousy economy.

I was just wondering where Ryan went....

I guess by this logic, GuestZero and madjack are just the same person.

I don't read every single thread here as I'm usually too busy during the week to come here, but I'll be certain to disagree with Ryan publicly next time I'm provided the opportunity.

Now see you were supposed to show up as ryan and assault my character and deny that your are dhr.

Didn't I meet guestzero and madjack at our last TT meeting? I'm quiet confident both attended and are in fact seperate men.

Yep - madjack and GuestZero are two separate people: I have met both personally and can vouch for their individuality.

Wow, I’m new to this posting and had to wait two days to respond. I actually created an account specifically because of this work for food blog. I am a taxpayer in West Toledo and own a home with my wife. I am semi retired and out and about in West Toledo frequently during the day .

Let me tell you about “Crutches, Army Vet, Out of Work and Breast Cancer Survivor” - the four vagrants who work(ed) the corner of Sylvania and Tallmadge for months at the BP as was described earlier in this post. I pass that intersection a minimum of two times a day and started to notice a rotation pattern, Crutches one day, Army Vet the next, then Breast Cancer Survivor, then Out of Work… then rotate…. I started calling the TPD non emergency line and complaining about vagrants panhandling in my neighborhood in an area which this city needs to prosper and attract new business to bring more jobs to our city. I provided a description and location and the police responded requiring the vagrant to leave. (You will not hear me refer to these panhandlers as “poor”, that would do a disservice to hard working people who are trying their best in this economy to survive - people who would demand that they do something for you if you bought them groceries some of whom have been noted in this posting) The vagrants know my car as I often park away from them and wait for the police to arrive. About ten days ago the lady who carries a sign that reads “Breast Cancer Survivor” approached my car and asked who I was. I explained that I was a tax payer in the City of Toledo waiting for the police to arrive. She then walked behind the BP where lo’ and behold “Crutches” the man referred to earlier in this post was relaxing and enjoying a cigarette seated against the wall. It is my belief that she has an outstanding warrant out for her because after the mention of the police she stayed hidden behind the building while “Crutches, the one legged” came out and started panhandling. The police soon arrived and told Crutches to cease whereupon I observed both “Crutches and Breast Cancer Survivor using a cell phone!” Breast Cancer Survivor then began to walk down to the 475 Corey road exit where she met with a third vagrant was standing with his sign. I called the police again to have him removed. So, this group is working in tandem and uses cell phones to communicate. “Yes Ryan, I have pictures of this…” I take them in the event of any type of disturbance happening their in the future at which time I will hand them over to the police who may find them useful.

The vagrants on this corner work in tandem and communicate – they all look so sad and downtrodden…. You may feel my description of the vagrants using their “handles” which are on their begging placards is mean spirited. Try this exercise… Do you have family members who have survived cancer? A serious automobile accident? Do you have Armed Services Veterans in your family? Does anyone in your family have a special ailment or disease? I can answer yes to all of these questions – my family is not on the streets. They all work very hard and pay taxes. The fact is if I am stricken by cancer and my life is saved by people who studies diligently for years and who work extremely hard at their practice the lowest form of respect I can show is to panhandle for “Give Me’s.”

I agree with earlier post. I had a friend who used to panhandle this area who was a heroin addict. He is clean today not because of the intended kindness of good folks. He is clean in large part because of the police, the warrants and the consequences. Without those all of that “intended kindness” would have aided in his death.

I strongly urge everyone to continue to call the TPD non-emergency number to report these vagrants in our city – 419-245-3340. Expect to give a description and location. Providing your name and number is optional.

"I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer."
— Benjamin Franklin

Danne, bravo and welcome to TT.

Bravo !!! Well said.

Welcome to TT and please comment often! A well thought concise response. Huzza,Huzza!

Its amazing how when ryan disappears dhr shows up in his place.

You know, now that you mention it... well, it really is quite a coincidence.

I was just wondering where Ryan went....

It's called the weekend. Try one sometime, they even have them outside these days. It's amazing how you value your opinions so much that if more than one person disagrees it can only be bacause they have multiple usernames. :()

I saw one today on Reynolds near Maumee Valley Country Day School. This is an attractive blond woman with the sign reading, "Single Mother, Out of Work, Please Give" or some such. I didn't donate to her cause.

Danneskjold: Nice post.

That's the same one I saw the other day, madjack. I saw her this evening too. She looked like she was cleaning up, too.

I saw a guy a few years ago holding a sign that read "Why Lie? I need Beer". I didn't donate to the cause but gave him credit for being honest.
Just last week a guy approached me at a gas station and asked for a couple bucks for gas and his car WAS only halfway up to the parking area. I declined. Next trip in, I told tha gal I felt bad and she said "DON'T"...the minute I left he pulled $$ out of his pocket and bought 2 packs of smokes.

The "pregnant lady" was back at the Collingwood/I-75 exit this week. But she changed her sign, now it just says "no job, need help."

Still looks exactly the same as she did the whole time she was using the "pregnant" sign.

Gas station begging is becoming popular. I've gotten hit up at the Speedway at Reynolds & Heatherdowns along with a few other gas stations on road trips elsewhere.

Always the same bullshit--short on cash, just broke up with boyfriend (if female), need to get to "city X" an hour down the road, yada yada yada. They sit on busy gas stations where all the attendants are dealing with customers inside and can't patrol panhandling outside.

Did you ever stop to think, "I'm semi-retired and I'm spending my free time stalking somebody who is begging for change"?

lmao

I wonder how the gas station loafers would like it if the rest of US started hounding THEM, for spare change to pay for our booze and cigarettes?

I live in privately owned condos - no rentals. So we know everyone in the condos.

We recently had something interesting happens...2 "homeless" people came through our area begging door to door. Their story was that they were driving through the area on the way to visit their family and their car broke down, that they are stranded without the ability to call local friends for help.

These guys milked a few of the senior citizens for cash. Since we are condos and have an association it was figured through the association investigation that they got over $200 from the people in our area in just one sweep.

Speaking about panhandlers, I've seen this woman on and off, for at least 20-25 years now. She is sort of tall(5'7"-5'8"), and extremely skinny-I'll bet she's maybe 110 pounds. She hangs around the downtown, Old West End area. Usually near stop lights, and she will yank on your door handle if you are waiting for a green light, asking for change. Her hair is quite long, and looks more like untended shrubbery than hair. What gets me is, how people in this physical shape can survive year in and year out? It's hard to believe how much punishment a human body can withstand. I'm certain with some folks, we're seeing a lot of bonafide mental illnesses, too-not just cases of people who would rather be drunk, etc.

It looks like DHR and Ryan losing the War For Minds, here on ToledoTalk. LOL! Maybe it's because they're here to stop the very thing that TT was setup to encourage: Citizens exchanging information without the usual media controls (largely, Liberal censorship).

We should print up a card with the standard welfare and charity agencies listed on it, for those who are on the side of the road, preying on our good natures. Instead of handing out cash (which is just turned into drugs and alcohol in short order), hand out the card and watch the expression of the CON-handler change when he realizes that you know full well what's he's really up to.

Time to get really, really angry again, Ryan. Oh, get angry, bitch!

Angry? You make me laugh old man, laugh!

Oh Guestzero, you silly duck <3

Don't you know, we are suppose to be sensitive bleeding hearts that care for these predators?

Or just human. You always have the choice to ignore them as well. Instead you want to post their pictures. I guess that makes you feel better about yourself. Or maybe you can post things about someone who just died to upset someone on the board that loved them. Did that make you feel better? Sick.

BTW, are you 18-22?

I suppose if these great "minds" feel that spending their time stalking homeless folks is a good idea, then yes, I will lose that war. Gladly.

I am not quite certain why, in the initial spirit of this thread, OhioKimono finds people holding a "will work for food" sign are predatory.

Ryan I like how you whine about wastes of our own time, yet you are easily the largest waste of time on TT.

Thought that might strike a nerve old lady. Less time fighting crime on the internet might help you finally get that degree. Although I don't understand how you didn't immediately go to an ivy league school after high school since your life is so charmed and you have never done anything wrong. Your parents muct have been worthless, worthless I say!

Now you're trashing someones' PARENTS? Rian, do you consider yourself one of the members of the so-called "compassionate party"? Where is your moral basement, the level you refuse to sink below? Seems like you still have a ways to go.

They have been blaming kids actions due to the parenting they received. Try to stay up.

Responding to DHR’s note: (Did you ever stop to think, "I'm semi-retired and I'm spending my free time stalking somebody who is begging for change"?)

In all honesty to that question… Yes, I have. Though my questioning is a little different. The question that I ask in all seriousness is “I am a dissatisfied resident in a city that I was born in yet love. I see that city crumbling. I don’t want to sell my house which I enjoy but my neighborhood is becoming less safe. I go to a store which I used to enjoy and I walk behind a mother and father with their daughter and the father absolutely wreaks of marijuana. I go to the mall and three thugs walk side by side and rather than politely shift over they try to intimidate me and glare at me. I go to a beautiful gym which was built a few years ago and cars are being broken into and gym lockers ransacked. I know my wife and I can move but I ask if this is forfeiting? This is the question I ask myself. You see, sometime, somewhere, you have to draw a line in the sand and fight. It doesn’t necessarily matter whether it is a vagrant on a street corner or someone trying to steal your bike. You have to say NO, even if it means losing - even if it means taking a beating - – don’t make it easy for the “takers.”

The corner that I mentioned in my earlier post was used by vagrants for well over three months before I started taking action. They panhandled, and if you saw my earlier post they were "conning" on this corner every day near our flagship mall and one of the key economic areas in our city Monday through Friday. As a lifetime resident of this city I want this (I need this) mall to stay successful After taking the [action] that I did which was described in my earlier post the corner was free from vagrants for 7 straight days. The key is “taking action.” My head is filled with political dissatisfaction. I frequently express my disgust with my wife and occasionally friends. These feeling and discussions accomplish very little. I believe each of us in this city can contribute something - anything to make Toledo a better place to live. We do not have to wait for someone else to “do something about it.” Act and Action!

For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors - between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and that the good is to live it. – John Galt

The reason that I copied that quote from Atlas Shrugged is simple. When I retired I might have satisfied many people to contribute my time to “The needy” or “those less fortunate.” The fact is that my “free time” actually came at quite a price as does any man who earns his living honestly. Sweat, investment, business risk and frustration, traveling away from family for business purposes, doing without to accomplish my goals (I could go on…). I never asked for a dime from any man or government. I’ve never asked any man to live his life for me and I will not live my life for any man. My spare time belongs to me. Though it may seem a little odd to spend a little time each week contacting the police I knew during that 7 day period I really did make a difference.

If you are tired of seeing people who should be out looking for work and trying to earn their keep stand out on corners looking for handouts I would once again urge you to take Action and report these panhandlers by calling the TPD non-emergency line – 419-245-3340. Expect to give a location and description of the vagrant.

Danneskjold - Thank you for your efforts and I wish more people in Toledo cared for the city like you do.

I love my home and neighborhood but every year it get worse and worse. People care less and less until those who do care leave because they just can't take it anymore. My wife and I have discussed leaving Toledo (breaking even on our home) and going to somewhere the schools are not broke and broken and my car doesn't get broken into twice a year.

I love Toledo, I just can't let my family suffer because of it.

"They have been blaming kids actions due to the parenting they received. Try to stay up.

posted by Ryan on Aug 26, 2010 at 09:37:48 pm #"

It looks like you are proving their hypothesis, son.

You post doesn’t even make sense, Pauly.

You need to work on your grammer.

And you your spelling.

Danneskjold - I understand what you're saying, but I can't really relate. I like to travel and I like to live other places. I'm not very fond of Toledo, really.

DHR, the person holding the sign is already subjecting himself to public scrutiny. He's inviting it. If he's on the level, he has nothing to fear.

However, people like you have a lot to fear, since people like us don't tolerate fraud, especially when it comes wrapped up in the circumstances of poverty that you consider to be so inviolate.

There's a thread about prescription drugs on here, GuestZero. Maybe it will remind you to take yours.

DHR, that you encourage others to take drugs, comes as no surprise, seeing that you hand money to junkies posing as bums on the street.

Want to keep going? I've got a large can of Industrial Strength Whup-Ass here.

I think you need less nonsensical internet-speak and more reading comprehension.

But yes, I definitely encourage the mentally unstable, like yourself, to take the proper medications.

Just like you encourage drug use on the street when you hand out cash to bums, who transform that cash into drugs and alcohol with all due speed. Oh, we've got your number, DHR.

this is just getting silly

JUST getting silly?

The mainstream media has told me that GuestZero is a lunatic.

Now, if we can teach bums to turn lead into gold....

Just had to circle back on to this old post. This post was started almost two and a half years ago. Two of the vagrants mentioned in this post; Homeless Vet and also an older Hispanic male still panhandle on the corner of Sylvania and Talmadge - they were out there today and have been out there at least every day for the last three weeks and probably 75% of the days in the 2.5 years since this post began. Since the change in the panhandling laws changed they are basically free to do so.

Anyways, two and a half years... I give them credit. In addition to the Government assistance they receive this is a great way to supplement ones entitlement income. Who needs a job?

I still see people roll down their windows and give these sign holders cash. These are the real heartless people among us... They continually make begging a lucrative option allowing one to forego their own dignity and mooch so that the supposed philanthropist can feel like they "did a good deed." It would be so much nicer for these generous souls among us to instead invite them into their homes for dinner or pay them to do chores around their house or business.... or bring them into their churches where they can receive love, guidance and another free warm meal. hint hint....

Danne

Why dont you give them free room and board then?

I would LC but it would probably require me to break a vow I only rarely bend - "Never Give a Man anything."

It's one of the highest forms of compassion there is.

But... I would be remarkably happy if one of these people who are keeping these guys on the street with their donations would extend their generous nature further and take them away from the corner.

If YOU want them off the corner, then do something. I'd help you out but then again I'd be breaking the "Never Give a Man anything" rule by helping you.

Now look Ron Swanson is my personal idol and I fully subscribe to Austrian economic theory but that doesn't mean that I give up on humanity.

I was raised poor write trash, fought, scraped, and sacrificed to try and better myself because I wanted more out of life. I too have real issues with giving street side donations but even I can't go all "Never Give a Man anything". Through all that time I was working during the day, going to school at night, making a 5 dollar pizza a whole days worth of food, God (nature, providence, or the universe if you prefer) put good people in my life who gave me their time, food, and in rare occurrence... money. Without their love and support I would have never of made it.

Even finding some manner of success with a home, secure income, and wonderful family I still need help now and then.

are you being a hypocrite?

you said in the previous post
I still see people roll down their windows and give these sign holders cash. These are the real heartless people among us... They continually make begging a lucrative option allowing one to forego their own dignity and mooch so that the supposed philanthropist can feel like they "did a good deed." It would be so much nicer for these generous souls among us to instead invite them into their homes for dinner or pay them to do chores around their house or business.... or bring them into their churches where they can receive love, guidance and another free warm meal. hint hint....

So you can suggest that someone else help these folks but you cant be bothered because of a vow???????????????

The invitation for the generous souls who are handing out dollars and supplies to these vagrants to bring them into their own home is a way of saying "If you must heartlessly support this persons habits why do so to the determent of our city and my neighborhood? Take them into your home and practice your charity. The panhandlers noted are grifters, plain and simple. They are there because there are fools ignorant enough to give them their hard earned money while they CHOOSE not to work nor seek employment– but that is their prerogative to give, not mine.

DBW - You earned the "assistance" and you were worthy of it and that is what others saw in you. It is what I look for in any situation where I extend a helping hand. Examples: Would you give $500 to pay a credit card of a niece who has no intention of changing her spending habits but only incurring more debt? Would you give money to a person with a drug habit that is killing them? (even understanding that by giving them food you provide comfort that extends their ability to continue and support their drug habit). I’m certain you would not. Would anybody give to a person who is low on funds because they lost a job but are not looking for work and spend their day on the computer or playing video games? I would not.

I do not give a person anything where that person leaves the situation with a sense that he or she has nothing to exchange. To do so is to stamp the word "USELESS" onto that persons conscience and damage him or her immensely. I always try to look for some modicum of exchange… most people will read that and their past teachings will program them to see the words “Selfish, Miserly, dickhead……) but there are those too who understand that this form of compassion is by far the kindest approach.

Every man or woman has something of value to give. I will not deprive a man of that knowledge to feed some sickness in myself.

Ahhh I get it now,I thought you were telling everyone that they should go find a homeless, or panhandler and bring em home, you just meant the people giving out the 1 or 5 to the panhandlers.

You should come back down to Earth sometime, where people aren't praising your every wise and noble thought.

...and what exactly is the crime that a man commits who values himself and his life and seeks and encourages value and self-respect in those around him?

From DBW8906: I was raised poor write trash, fought, scraped, and sacrificed to try and better myself because I wanted more out of life.

I call BS.
Poor, okay. I'll buy that. Write [likely white], sure enough. Fought, as belligerent as you are? Yeah, that's very likely the case. Scraped, if you're poor you never have anything unless you scrape it together. Sacrificed, damn straight I believe that one. You can easily go without a few hours sleep in order to work another job.

Trash? No. That's pure stable dressing and I don't believe it for a second. People around you might have been trash, but the second you decided to get out of a bad situation and then suited action to words, you stopped being trash. If you ever were, which as I say, I doubt.

Even though I am fairly hardhearted, I will on rare occasion give someone a handout. Mainly food, although I've been known to spring for a drink as well.

As far as working odd jobs for money, I offered one poor fellow who was down and out a job. When he asked what I needed done, I told him it was physical labor. He pressed on for specifics, and I allowed that I had about a cord and a half of wood that needed to be split and stacked up. He lost interest.

My own Main Lady will not give handouts, and tells every single begging freeloader who asks for money to get lost. The dichotomy here is that on one occasion Main Lady took in a mentally ill 18 year old girl who eventually grew up to be a successful, productive member of society who is no longer mentally ill.

"Never Give a Man anything."

Awfully glad you weren't around in early 70's when I was left with 2 children, no money, no home and no job. Did I need help? You bet I did and right then and there. But I had family to help me.

Not everyone is as lucky as I was. I have never forgotten those awful days. It pays not to judge others till you have walked in their shoes.

Now would I give money to someone standing on the street? No. Would I give money to someone who worked for me and earned the money? Yes.

Jackie writes: "Now would I give money to someone standing on the street? No. Would I give money to someone who worked for me and earned the money? Yes."

My point exactly Jackie. You did not give him the money when he worked for you. You exchanged your hard earned money for a service he provided for you. He walked away knowing he had a talent and skill to offer. Value for value. Exactly.

http://www.ijreview.com/2013/02/33972-free-healthcare-irs-says-cheapest-obamatax-plan-is-20000/
So now it looks like the cheapest you can get a health insurance plan according to the IRS is 20k a year, nice nice, so much for saving us money and making healthcare affordable.