Need a job? Too bad...

In order to best forward your anti-education agenda with non-scholarly articles, you should attack education.

I'm not attacking education per say just that opportunity to use that education has been seriously compromised. The economic policy of free unfettered trade has not only affected our standard of living but opportunity and our country's security. We are fast becoming a bankrupt third world economy. Until we the people take back our country from the monied, those with influence, we'll all be in a soup line in a few years.

We need to attack hugely-overpriced education, DHR, you retard.

Until we the people take back our country from the monied, those with influence, we'll all be in a soup line in a few years.

For a lot of our citizens, we're already there. I work near a place that has a free breakfast for anyone who needs food. There were always 4-5 people in line before they opened. Nowadays, the line stretches to more than a dozen.

You can't expect to show up at a standard 9 - 5 and drive home in a Benz!

A college degree isn't for everyone but the world still needs skilled trades.

You want more, then work harder to get it. Nothing is free, no matter what Obama promises.

DBW, Americans already work the longest hours in the world, and are the most productive workforce in the world. Those facts might have changed slightly in the last few years, but only slightly. So this assertion of yours to "work harder" is pure bullshit.

What Americans need to do is WANT LESS, and must also invest in personal energy efficiency (meaning wanting less energy). We must compete with the third world for labor. The mathematical averaging of labor costs means that most people are destined to end up working below $12/hr. The national median household income of $50K (2007?) must fall to half, at least. In Toledo, the median household income of $32k (2009) must be adjusted by the same percentage.

That means that by 2030 AD, the median household in the city must get by with $24K (inflation-adjusted dollars). Air conditioners and SUVs will be rare. Wood stoves will be common. Passive solar heating and wind turbines will have a significant minority share. Bicycling will become more noticeable. And households who continue to be stubborn about energy consumption, will have no discretionary income at all, having blown through it on gasoline, electricity and natural gas.

And taxes. Never forget how eagerly the disgusting Liberals will try to increase our tax load by 25%. A 10% increase in taxes is already baked into the cake. It's unavoidable, like your utility bills.

Yes GZ to compete with third world manufacturing we will all use a bicycle or mass transit, so hold off on getting rid of Tarta. Most will have to live in dormitories in the factory to cut down on expenses. The dorms will share a common bathroom with many so families will learn to have better time management. Long gone will be the 40 hour workweek most in China are working 12 hour days 6 or 7 days a week. Workers will have to save for their retirement there are no social services in China.

Yep, that's exactly the future I want for MY kids!

GZ you seem to be given to failure, if you don't choose to work harder than you should be content with the things you have. So you are telling me that you just expect to sit around and do the same level of work and expect great benefits. Have fun in your fallout shelter if you wish, but I choose more.

As a small business owner I MUST offer a higher quality service, not always at a lower but at a value added price. I'm not content to leave "money on the table" so I work harder than those who are. To the victor go the spoils, and I choose to win. If that means putting in a couple of "free hours" here and there, so be it.

No, DBW, I don't expect to do the same level of work and receive great benefits. My wages will fall like most everyone else's will, since we must now compete with the rest of the world, and much of the world's manufacturing labor makes about $2/hr.

What I'm telling people is that this is coming no matter what you do. If you try to legislate it, your company will just close its doors and move overseas since you cannot actually force them to spend too much money on labor. Wages in Toledo will fall and there's nothing you can do about it. However, there's much you can do to adapt to it.

Those who adopt the "spoils to the victor" view of things must also accept that there will be few victors. I'm speaking in terms of statistics, hence I'm concomitantly speaking of what will happen to the majority of people regardless of what they do.

Statistically, most people in First World nations are going to lose and lose big in the New Economy of Globalism. Hence, knowing the odds are very much against you, you can only then -- and sanely so -- downsize your lifestyle to prepare for what the odds overwhelmingly say must happen: You're going to lose. If by some miracle of chance that you don't lose, then it's easy enough to spend your excess on buying yourself a higher lifestyle after that.

In fact, it will be a smart economic move, according to your own rules, since stuff will be cheaper then. A pure fire sale of assets, like we're having in the housing crash now. Sell high, then buy low. Right? Of course right.

Finally, DBW, cut out the "small biz owner" propaganda. You cannot take advantage of economies of scale. So you cannot offer lower prices. That's why you harp on "higher quality". And it's not all the drives purchasing decisions. Price is a HUGE factor in a purchasing decision. You're in as much danger as any laborer around here. The failure rate of small businesses is high. Statistics support my position; yours, not so much.

GZ you make great points, but why do you even get out of bed everyday? If you resided to living in squaller then why try? I choose to live a victorious life.

I get and understand the downsizing mentality, I don't own a big screen TV, my car has 160k miles on it, and my house is not "Better Homes & Gardens" that doesn't mean I can't take pride in my business. The world has always had winners and losers, you make the choice of which one you want to be everyday.

The low cost supplier is the low cost supplier. If you want wal-mart prices you will get wal-mart quality work. If we use your logic everyone would use the "shade tree" mechanics or johnny come lately roofer. But when you are responsible for a asset you have more considerations than price.

"Most will have to live in dormitories in the factory to cut down on expenses. Long gone will be the 40 hour workweek most in China are working 12 hour days 6 or 7 days a week."

That's how many cell phones and other gadgets are manufactured. In protest, I assume no one owns any foreign-made electronics. We'll hold out until the iPhone is manufactured in the USA.

Nov 2, 2010 Gizmodo post

Wikipedia: Foxconn :

• Apple Inc.
• Amazon.com
• Cisco
• Hewlett-Packard
• Dell
• Nintendo
• Nokia
• Microsoft
• Sony
• Sony Ericsson

Foxconn is also notorious for killing its workers with over work till they drop from exhaustion or kill themselves with suicide. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/25/foxconn-ninth-worker-death-fall-china Is this what global competition is bring to workers in the United States?

"Is this what global competition is bring to workers in the United States?"

I don't think Americans care as long as we can buy our gadgets at Best Buy or wherever.

Foxconn manufactures the Amazon Kindle and the Apple iPad.

Dec 21, 2010 Business week story titled Amazon.com Kindle Sales Are Said to Exceed Estimates :

How much would these gadgets cost if they were manufactured in the USA?

Dec 12, 2010 San Francisco Chronicle story titled Foxconn Technology has 1 million Chinese workers

Dec 18, 2010 story titled Apple iPhone Adds $1.9 Billion To US Trade Deficit

DBW said: “ GZ you make great points, but why do you even get out of bed everyday? If you resided to living in squaller then why try? I choose to live a victorious life. ”

(Not to nitpick, but I'm going to have to assume you meant "resigned to living in squalor". Peace.)

Let's get a few things established. I don't live in squalor. I'm not resigned to living in squalor. I merely accept that wages will keep dropping until we cannot afford First World means of living anymore. Those who try will be even more deeply wiped out than others will.

The American lifestyle runs on debts and energy. Both are unsustainable.

And for your own life, the victorious life you advocate is heavily dependent on those two items. So it's not victorious at all. On average, "victorious" people like you are overextended. You're bankrupting and getting foreclosed in record numbers which themselves will set new records as time goes on.

It's not a matter of attitude. It's a matter of reality. You can't stop capitalist scum from fleeing Toledo, as they've done for decades now. Since you cannot stop capital flight, you MUST accept a decapitalized future. There is no sane alternative.

The Toledo area must move from a First World area, to a Second World area. That's pretty much where all the rest of the economic-participant world must end up.

So, we're talking places like Albania and Argentina. Yes, they have impoverished areas there. Still, with judicious selections of living means, you can have a fairly good life. You just can't eat out that often. You can't keep buying new stuff all the time. Your kids really won't be doctors and lawyers that allow you to use their yacht in your golden years. Etc.

I'm pretty much talking about the 1950s style of living. One car. Using the bus otherwise. No A/C. One partner works. A small residence. A garden. Limited entertainment spending. Etc.

In fact, we're an afflicted society, in which the people of today wouldn't be caught dead indulging in the lifestyles of their parents, much less their grandparents. And yet credit, wages and energy can't be as affluent as before, so we must accept those legacy modes of living anyway.

When I speak of these things, I never imply that we're going to be living in shacks. That's what I don't get about the protests of you and people like you. You never seem to understand that although our standard of living must drop, the standard of living of the lesser worlds must rise. So living in a worker's dorm is not in the cards for the USA. Those dorms in the other worlds will start to vanish over the next generation, just like SUVs will start to vanish here. So I never allude to "living in squalor". The 1950s wasn't squalor. In fact, the 1930s wasn't squalor either. We're undoubtedly going to bottom out in the 1930s, since the era of Cheap Oil is very much over and cannot return no matter how much is invested to return it so.

Yes GZ the victory gardens will make a comeback. My father, who grew up in the 1930s always laughs at this generation. When he grew up there was no entertainment. Most people survived without much money bartering services. It was a hard scrabble life no time to be board. The cathedral ceiling crowd will find the new economy of our future hard to swallow. Long gone are the roaring 2000s where fools flipped housing. Housing is dead multigenerations per home is the future. The difference between 1930 and 2011 back then health insurance/costs were minimal a health crisis would not have bankrupted you. Today you can live frugal but when a health issue rises everything is on the bankrupt table.

GZ-

Damn fine posts!

GZ wrote,"I'm pretty much talking about the 1950s style of living. One car. Using the bus otherwise. No A/C. One partner works. A small residence. A garden. Limited entertainment spending. Etc."

Ah the fifties!Let me add to your list.There were also no computers,cell phones,I pods,I pads,flat screen t.v.s,dvd players,digital calculators and the list goes on and on.I like once in awhile to remember how things were so that I can appreciate how far we have come today.Unfortunately,there is no going back to when life was simpilar.Although I don't think most of us want to go back to those days.I know I would not like to do that.

I'm pretty much talking about the 1950s style of living. One car. Using the bus otherwise.

Just asking, but weren't you the same person who was against the TARTA levy last month? Now, riding the bus is where we are "inevitably" heading?

I don't think the bus system paid for itself with just fare-payers in the 50's either.

Buckeye, what people in the 1950s didn't have were huge monthly bills for marginally utile equipment and entertainments. You're going to have to give those up. You're going to have to give something up, since your incomes must drop. It's already "baked into the cake". What remains is the "Time of Eating". LOL!

Yes, OHT, I did oppose the TARTA scam. A bus system makes perfect sense... once the fares rise to meet the necessary operating costs.

Of course you can just use a bicycle. Like I said, a big drop in your standard of living is already going to happen. It's inevitable. You can't wish it away. You can't legislate it away. You can't just keep borrowing money to make it go away. So deal with it.

"Just asking, but weren't you the same person who was against the TARTA levy last month? Now, riding the bus is where we are "inevitably" heading?

I don't think the bus system paid for itself with just fare-payers in the 50's either."

If any statement exemplified ad hominem arguments...

The tea party Republicans will inherit our government Jan 1st. Any and all government workers should start now and cut their level of spending. They will be ground zero in wage reduction.The unemployed will be forced to accept the global economy and work for the minimum wage economy, no more unemployment. Housing will see another contraction as once middle class Americans realize this nightmare ain't going away. Many Tea Baggers will realize their idealistic platitudes will affect them adversely. The monied will continue to invest overseas where the low wage economies grow at ten percent annually. Thus starving the American economy into a 21st century global rat race.

For the record, the irony of GZ calling anyone else a retard was not lost.

And let's be real, listening to GZ on any of these topics is absurd. Any poor, unskilled worker living in his mother's basement in a forgotten city can be easily dismissed on topics requiring any sense of worldly knowledge.

"Any and all government workers should start now and cut their level of spending."

Same for non-government workers as the government (and the citizenry) continue to increase taxes, fees, and assessments. Offset these increases by shopping at Walmart.

"The monied will continue to invest overseas where the low wage economies grow at ten percent annually."

Dec 22, 2010 cnet story

Some or many of those cell phones were probably manufactured by Foxconn in China.

Excerpts from a lengthy Dec 5, 2010 cnet story titled U.S. chip manufacturing in the age of the iPad

China is moving away from low tech and pursuing High tech. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6BE0U220101215
A college degree in China promises nothing.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/KJ22Cb03.html

Er, Wolfman, you have zero understanding of what will change in the Congress in January.

Firstly, the Senate will remain a Democrat simple majority, and the House will have a simple Republican majority. So the Republicans can't be sanely said to "inherit the government" when the Presidency and Senate are still Democrat.

Even then, the House will have about 40 TEA Party candidates seated. That's less than 10% of the entire assembly. So trying to blame "tea baggers" is part of your propagandized viewpoint.

We real TEA Party adherents know full well that the government needs to downsize. Everyone needs to downsize. All levels of society from individuals, families, organizations, corporations, to governments, have lived on outrageous borrowing. It has to stop, since all these debts are rapidly becoming unpayable. If it continues, there's a real risk of worldwide warfare, even beyond the miniature WWIII that the despicable United States started in the Middle East in 2001.

It's coming, Wolfman. Either we stop the borrowing and spending, or we should just start shooting each other now.

DHR, you're part of the larger propaganda system. You lie so freely that it's doubtful that you even understand that you're doing it anymore.

I'm not poor, I'm not unskilled, and I most certainly don't live in a basement or housing owned by somebody else. Toledo has a very high homeownership percentage, so it's pathetic that you'd resort to such slander.

As for being in a forgotten city, that's equally applicable to you, unless you're another carpetbagger like Brian Wilson.

GZ Obama is in a compromising mood after the Nov shellacking. Giving tax breaks one month after Erskine Bowles and Alan Simpson US Deficit Commission report tells the world these clowns will do anything for a campaign buck. Next April the budget runs dry again and Obama is listening to Bill Clinton who we all know is more Republican than Democrat. So with the help of tea party loud mouth Sarah Palin and others we will have huge pressure on reducing costs. So look to the domestic spending cuts, the social programs, the public pension systems.

Wolfie, the federal budget in each year of 2009 and 2010 borrowed enough to compose the entire budget of 2002. About $1500 billion in each case. And the budget of 2002 probably had about $400 billion in borrowing all on its own, so it's like in 2009 and 2010 the federal government borrowed enough to match the federal revenue of 2005 twice over.

It's out of control and must lead to catastrophic results. So if anyone is going to cut the budget, then GOOD. I don't care what's cut, since we're on a clearly suicidal course of spending and borrowing.

They could cut every social program outside of SS and Medicare, however, and still not balance the budget, much less achieve a surplus which is desperately needed to pay down the $14000 billion first-level federal debt.

By squabbling over what to cut, you just ensure that nothing will be cut. The factions work to together to make symbolic cuts, while also producing huge spending increases. The net result is that the federal budget deficit has literally exploded in size. It's not free money. It has to be paid back.

GZ I think most of our problem is Americans are basically spoiled and self center. They care not for anything outside their comfort zone. So we have no pain wars and runaway consumerism for our narcissistic society. Our representatives cannot lead the country because of our selfish ways. The haves refuse to invest in American hell the S&P 500 derives half of its earnings from overseas. With this trend American investment is doomed. 47% do not pay federal taxes because the global economy doesn't support high paying jobs for the average Joe. So here we are no income no tax revenue and all we hear from Washington is divisive rhetoric.

GZ here's two that I think you'll like!

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,726447,00.html

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/gops-plan-economy-force-states-bankruptcy

Need to tax campaign funds at 50%.