Do you go to the Erie Street Market? What kind of customer is attracted there? I used to go to the Farmer's Market, but I tend to go to Monette's more often now. This collection of shops doesn't seem to be surviving. Why is that? They have "free" parking (which is at a premium downtown). I have eaten at a restaurant there, but it seemed more pricey (for what I ate) than other places. But I haven't been there in a year. This link, http://uac.utoledo.edu/Publications/Erie-Street-Market.pdf, shows a study from 2004. It reads about the problems then. How would you deal with the problems of the Erie Street Market? Sell it, or even auction it, to the highest bidder? And what of its future? Will it be a drag on the city's revenues, or could it be a "money maker". It will be interesting to find out how it affected Citifest.
Erie Street Market: Another "Lesson" for Toledo
Comments ... #
What other venues similar to the Erie Street Market are in the LEW? If I wanted to compare Toledo's "market" to one in Defiance, or Ann Arbor, how would they compare?
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 17, 2007 at 12:31:04 am #
I have a poll going at swampbubbles.com. How many people have visited the Erie Street Market in the last 30 days?
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 17, 2007 at 12:39:15 am #
This is the "official" link, http://www.eriestreetmarket.org/index.html, to the Erie Street Market. Only two shops are listed. You think they'd try to put on all of them so customers could check it out on the 'net. Maybe I'm being to persnickety.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 17, 2007 at 12:46:16 am #
And I guess the Toledo Farmer's Market, http://www.toledofarmersmarket.org/, is part of Erie Street Market (though they don't have it "linked" on the web pages). Well, thank god for indexing on Google.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 17, 2007 at 12:51:18 am #
How does the Toledo Farmer's Market compare to Monette's? I think "from the farm", I think Monette's. Of course, the pretty young cashiers don't hurt the business, either. I did quite a bit of my shopping for melons, squash, etc., from two stands over on Wheeling Street (after Meijer if you're heading north). One was by a school there. Both had pretty good stuff at good prices.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 17, 2007 at 12:55:33 am #
I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the Libbey Glass Outlet! But, unfortunately, one only needs so much glassware :-(
posted by justsimplyholly on Nov 17, 2007 at 01:35:36 am #
If anyone's interested in fruit and vegetables stands, here's a mashup, http://www.runningmap.com/?id=28652, that puts the distance between two of them on South Wheeling Street at about .3 miles.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 17, 2007 at 02:20:22 am #
I'll have to give the Libbey Glass Outlet a look. I';ve been meaning to. The way things are going it might die.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 17, 2007 at 02:25:27 am #
Costco displaced and dispersed a lot of our local color which still hasn't come back together. Clearly there was a market for what was going on at Westgate with small independently owned local shops and boutiques. Can it work downtown..i don't know. It is a safe distance from the University, Ottawa Hills and Old Orchard. But if not at the Erie St. Market, where? How do we get back was we lost at Westgate?
posted by thetoledowire_com on Nov 17, 2007 at 10:35:33 am #
"How do we get back [what] we lost at Westgate?"
I say a place called Main Street in Toledo would be the ideal location. Look at the name: Main Street. Like a little town except it's close to The Docks and the Marina District if that ever happens. Neighborhoods butt up against Main Street. And this small business district extends up Main and along Starr Ave. Some interesting old buildings line Main and Starr. Vacancies exist there now. When was the last time you heard Main Street being discussed or promoted in the news?
My theory is, the East Side has been told to cool its jets until the Marina District gets built. As if somehow a Marina District development will magically spur positive changes on Main Street. Why wait for fantasy land to get built? I know the East Side has at least one community development org. What have they done for Main Street over the last 15 years? The Warehouse District didn't wait for a baseball stadium to be built before trying to improve that area.
Main Street is currently four lanes wide. Does it really need to be four lanes so people can speed by? Make it three lanes: one each way and the middle turn lane. Add more traffic lights maybe. You want people to slow down on Main Street and gawk.
The sidewalks along Main are too narrow. By removing a lane from Main Street, this should allow sidewalks to be widened for better streetscaping, so people have places to sit down. And I don't mean those pathetic-looking benches with advertising. Use attractive benches and larger planters that hold flowers or surround trees that have two or three foot high brick or concrete walls with wide, flat tops, so people can sit down.
Loitering on the sidewalk should be encouraged. It's Main Street. Walk, browse, converse, shop, eat, drink. Slow down. Wide sidewalks would allow some merchants to set up racks and displays outside, and restaurants and cafes could allow sidewalk dining.
Downtown Perrysburg has wide sidewalks, and during their First Friday's this summer, some of the small businesses had merchandise set up outside along the sidewalk. Perrysburg's wide sidewalks allow for them to hold their weekly farmers market downtown on the sidewalk. Wide sidewalks for business and foot traffic.
Look at the outdoor dining at The Docks :
It would be nice to replicate that along Main Street. But look how narrow the sidewalks are along Main :
The sidewalk area along Main Street is not inviting nor attractive. It doesn't look like it could handle a lot of foot traffic and business. Toledo's Main Street needs wide sidewalks like downtown Perrysburg or this :
But with those planters that serve as impromptu benches.
Of course, this is all fine during the 6 to 8 months of the year when the weather is decent. The place needs to still attract browsers and shoppers during the colder months and when it gets dark early.Ideally, Toledo's Main Street would provide businesses that serve the people living in that area. But it would also offer unique businesses that would attract people to Main Street from other parts of Toledo and from other communities.
All better explained in this February 2007 Toledo Talk posting titled Insights Into A Lively Downtown. Here's the link to an interesting video that I've posted before. It's mainly about Main Street in Ann Arbor.
I have read the market survey mentioned in the first link. It is basically a handbook on how to make the Erie Street Market work. The infrastructure is already there, it just needs an injection of private capital and someone who has a vision. Keep the government out of it. Look at what they've (not) done to it. I live near the market and go over there at least once a week to see what is happening. They now have the Chowder House (great chowder) and Bailey's Pizza (also great). Other than that, it's a depressing ghost town. It really is too bad that local developers keep ignoring what could be a great marketplace in the heart of Toledo. I have a hunch that there is just too much politics to make it worth their while...
good point, newbie, and too much uncertainty as well...how many managers have they had over the last 5 years?
posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 17, 2007 at 08:36:55 pm #
I think JR has a good idea about the East Side.
As for the ESM I've heard of the need to get more business there and also that downtown needs a grocery store. Why doesn't the city try to get the locally owned Anderson's to put a small grocery store in there.
It attracts the same demographics as what the ESM is looking for. It's a local business just like Libby. It would serve the downtown community. It would bring in a stream of steady customers to a project that relies too much on being unique.
BTW~I have been to the ESM twice in the last 30 days. The Libby outlet is awesome, but the rest of the market is too far from it and is looking for a different demographic.
Compilation of ESM managers - think this is a good listing, but feel free to correct any mistakes or time frames:
Connie Hoffman-currently
Carl Schmidt Feb. 2007 – June 2007 (I think)
Don Monroe August 2006 – Jan. 2007
Peter Kepler April 2006 - August 2006
Pat Nowak Sept. 2004-Nov. 2005
Daniel Madigan Nov. 2002-July 2004
Candace Baldwin May 2001-Sept. 2002
Julie Champa Dec. 1999 – May 2001
Carolyn Smithers Aug. 1998 - Nov. 1999
Don Schultz March 1998 – July 1998
January 1998 - Mayor Carty Finkbeiner fires the nonprofit group that managed the taxpayer-subsidized Market Place shopping center, home to the Erie Street Market and Libbey Factory Outlet Store. The Toledo Warehouse District Asssociation ran the shopping center under a contract with the city.
Judy Paschalis Jan. 1997 - Dec. 1997.posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 19, 2007 at 04:57:08 pm #
Here's a link, http://www.toledo.com/attractions/erie_street_market/, describing what the market has to offer. I don't know how current it is, but anyone recommend anything on here? And I wonder how many "visitors" from LEW have found the Erie Street Market a good place to visit.
posted by oldsendbrdy on Nov 17, 2007 at 12:21:38 am #