Toledo Talk

Another downtown watering hole bites the dust...Easy Street Bar.

I was just told by one of their employees that tonight is their last night.

Someone listening to some of you guys around here would be fooled into believing the downtown Toledo bar scene was part of a thriving metropolis.

There still are a few more downtown watering holes that are circling the bowl.

Easy come, easy go.

Not to worry, the Chinese are here checkbook in hand.

created by 6th_Floor on Jan 30, 2011 at 01:19:37 am     Business     Comments: 2561

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Surprising quote from that article:

"Two new locations will open soon - a Dave & Buster's and Whole Foods Market. The latter is expected to increase the value of homes in the community.

Toledo's first Whole Foods Market and shopping complex will open next spring on Secor at Executive Parkway. Zillow.com, a real estate site, states homes near specialty grocery stores have had reportedly higher value over the past 15 years. According to research, homes more than doubled in value in 2014that were within one mile of a specialty grocery store."

If this is true, it's good news! Although it might be a chicken-or-egg conundrum.

posted by viola on Apr 04, 2016 at 06:26:07 pm     #  

posted by justareviewer on Apr 04, 2016 at 06:37:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

Double in value hahahaha

If that is true my home and two rentals will be for sale next spring.

How does a journalist even allow themselves to post that type of "growth" without laughing.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Apr 04, 2016 at 06:49:36 pm     #  

Maddie and Bella is scheduling interviews for regular employees in late April. Looks like they're getting there finally.

posted by endcycle on Apr 06, 2016 at 02:51:01 pm     #  

Maddie and Bella was scheduling interviews a few months ago as well. Maybe they'll finally be open by 2017 Opening day

posted by classylady on Apr 06, 2016 at 03:38:22 pm     #  

Kobe Bay has shut down for a remodeling-their chef may have left as a result of their unannounced remodel. They are adding some big hibachi tables. Also, they may be taking down their Christmas Tree.

posted by ahmahler on Apr 06, 2016 at 04:20:53 pm     #  

Remodeling a restaurant that has already been remodeled less than a year after opening is... well... not a good sign.

posted by upso on Apr 06, 2016 at 08:39:56 pm     #  

To be fair, the hibachi grill install is something they said they were planning to do a few months ago. They said they hoped to have them in by summer. So, this seems to check out.

posted by Johio83 on Apr 06, 2016 at 08:58:38 pm     #  

Though I can also attest that I've been in there for lunch twice in the past couple weeks, and on both occasions, there was only one other table.

posted by Johio83 on Apr 06, 2016 at 09:00:00 pm     #  

No way I would eat animal products let alone raw animal products at a restaurant with turnover like that. Yikes.

posted by upso on Apr 06, 2016 at 09:26:41 pm     #  

Ottawa Tavern also has been closed for some remodeling and ownership changes.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 07, 2016 at 01:11:54 pm     #  

Jim Avolt, if you're going to be around the 5/3 area today after 5, I'd enjoy hearing one of your patented Hensville rants in person, than 100 of them here at TT.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 07, 2016 at 01:30:56 pm     #  

6th_Floor posted at 01:11:54 PM on Apr 07, 2016:

Ottawa Tavern also has been closed for some remodeling and ownership changes.

I've been told Tom the original owner still owns the building / bar. Innovation concerts will just be leasing the bar space and taking over the liquor license.

posted by upso on Apr 07, 2016 at 02:13:34 pm     #  

Sorry 6th, I'll be booing Hensville from afar today. Had some dental surgery earlier in the week and things haven't quite healed-up yet. Have fun.

posted by jimavolt on Apr 07, 2016 at 04:07:16 pm     #  

The Mud Hens opened the 2016 season with a 10-2 victory over Louisville before a crowd of 12,764 fans at Fifth Third Field today, which featured cold temperatures and a combination of rain, sleet, and snow.

If they moved the comma one space to the left, and dropped the 4, their number still would be around double the actual number of fans inside the stadium during any point of the game.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 08, 2016 at 12:42:15 am     #   1 person liked this

Jim, it doesn't appear you missed much under the tent at Hensville Park.

http://www.bcsn.tv/news_article/show/634448

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 08, 2016 at 12:46:31 am     #  

Jim, have you checked out either of Hensville's rooftop viewing areas this weekend?

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 10, 2016 at 02:13:59 pm     #  

6th, no, I didn't make it downtown this weekend. I suppose I'll eventually check it out.

posted by jimavolt on Apr 11, 2016 at 10:06:20 am     #  

I walked by Maddie and Bella's tonight. They have a couple of amusing signs in the window now.

One says "when the #*## are these guys going to open"

and they have anothger sing that says "ok, maybe we are a little optimistic" and then has opening date and and then "4th of july, 2015, labor day, at least while it's still warm, thanksgiving and about five other days listed all with lines drawn through them and it it's they are working with the city to open ASAP.

I also noticed on the windows next door it lists some foundation and has Maddy and Bella's under it. It's been so long since I've been in Downtown lattee I honestly can't remember if those windows were part of the restaurant or not.

posted by classylady on Apr 11, 2016 at 11:55:57 pm     #  

Wasn't sure if anyone posted this -
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=517439711773491&id=385284594989004

posted by SensorG on Apr 13, 2016 at 04:23:00 pm     #  

Apparently serving good drinks and well-priced steak dinners weren't enough to salvage an awful location.

Another one bites the dust...Martini & Nuzzi's (Downtown) x 2.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 13, 2016 at 04:37:47 pm     #  

That's quite a story.

posted by ahmahler on Apr 13, 2016 at 10:14:21 pm     #  

Every time I've wanted to go to Veritas they are either closed (Even though we are there during posted opening times) or there is no one in the bar and we just go elsewhere so I don't understand why they need unisex bathrooms, seems like there are never enough customers there for it to matter

posted by classylady on Apr 13, 2016 at 10:30:36 pm     #   1 person liked this

That's sad news about Martini and Nuzzi's. If the post is true about the landlord why did they spend all that money on the Bourbon Room???? I sure as hell wouldn't be putting any money into improvements in a business if I was having those issues with the landlord and I wouldn't have reopened until the issues were resolved.

That location is doomed though. The two big buildings near there (5/3rd and Spitzer) have been boarded up for a couple years as well as Charter One. Only thing in that block occupied is the LaSalle Apartments

posted by classylady on Apr 13, 2016 at 10:33:18 pm     #  

Sign taped to the door at M&N's reads: "You have been locked out due to default and your available remedies under this lease."

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 13, 2016 at 10:37:31 pm     #  

ahmahler posted at 10:14:21 PM on Apr 13, 2016:

That's quite a story.

Yeah it is. Having participated in the 2000 renovation of the building, I can't believe it got that bad. 16 years ago it was gutted and rebuilt from bank to bank. A lot of blood sweat and tears went into the renovations. It was really nice when we were done and ready to open Diva.

In fact, the building that was bought for less than $20,000 was sold for more than $250,000 at the bottom of the market around 5 years ago.

Apparently it's been a hard, hard 5 years of bad renters and bad owners.

posted by justread on Apr 14, 2016 at 06:05:40 am     #  

I see we now have a wedding chapel on Erie Street. It's only open weekdays a few hours a day (weekends by appointment). Doesn't seem like that would be something that would be in demand during the week downtown

posted by classylady on Apr 19, 2016 at 04:35:18 pm     #  

This is the latest update on M&B's facebook page. Unbelieveable they still don't have an opening date yet:
As many of you know, the process to open a business, let alone one in the food industry, takes time. We are working diligently on the 11th hour details. Rest assured we are sitting on GO, and pending final inspections we will have a date for you soon!

In other exciting news, not only we will be serving mind blowing coffees and espresso, we will also be opening up our Roastery and Coffee Lab right next door. You'll be able to experience the roasting process, attend regular cuppings and experiment with new and innovative brewing methods.

So, we know. It's been a while. But there is light at the end of the tunnel. Soon.

Sincerely,
The M&B Team

posted by classylady on Apr 19, 2016 at 05:25:10 pm     #   1 person liked this

That wedding business on Erie has been open for about a year.

M&B is a joke...along with the group of "coming soon" zombie businesses.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 19, 2016 at 09:31:08 pm     #  

I'm sorry, 6th, did they owe you something? I didn't realize they, like every other business you run your mouth about, were indebted to you. How dare they not set their clocks to your say-so! It's a good thing we all have your coffee roaster to go enjoy in the mean time, huh? Thanks for the service you provide to the community in the stead of all of these slackers who stick their necks out and take their time to make sure it's done as well as it can be.

posted by Johio83 on Apr 20, 2016 at 09:03:16 am     #   11 people liked this

classylady posted at 04:35:18 PM on Apr 19, 2016:

I see we now have a wedding chapel on Erie Street. It's only open weekdays a few hours a day (weekends by appointment). Doesn't seem like that would be something that would be in demand during the week downtown

They pick up their marriage license during the week downtown.

posted by justread on Apr 20, 2016 at 09:36:04 am     #   1 person liked this

Johio, they owe me about as much as I owe you...nothing. So quit following me around this forum like an old barking poodle. You never fail to follow a post I make in this thread with the same nonsense. Every time a business fails to open timely or goes out of business you have the same response.

Meanwhile, it has been a couple months or longer since you mentioned an announcement was imminent from Hull & Associates regarding the property next to the ESM.

Is there any update other than "an announcement will be made very soon?"

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 20, 2016 at 10:34:52 am     #  

At least M&B is FINALLY keeping their customers posted. It's absurd it has been delayed this long but will be cool if they allow customers to see the roasting process. I'm hoping they have better hours than Downtown Latte and they continue use real glass and silverware for dine in orders like Downtown Latte. Something nice about having having my coffee in a real cup instead of paper.

David Ball's dad told me that the Potbelly space next to PNC ran into some problems with the City (seems like the city is a scapegoat for businesses downtown being delayed in opening) and are shooting for opening this summer (the space is being worked on) and that Sandy Spangg signed a lease recently and is planning on opening up Plate 21 by July 4 in the Ohio Building. Hopefully since there was already a coffee house in that space it won't take them long to remodel but the M&B was a coffee house and I think they've been closed for almost two years remodeling now.

posted by classylady on Apr 20, 2016 at 10:44:12 am     #  

Bleakhouse on Adam's uses real cups and dishes for dine in orders. Refills are also free if you dine in. I love going there for Saturday breakfast, best waffles in town.

posted by jamesteroh on Apr 20, 2016 at 12:10:59 pm     #  

Harold Ball always is willing to talk !!

posted by Hoops on Apr 20, 2016 at 12:20:07 pm     #   1 person liked this

They made their decision about a month and a half ago, they just haven't said anything publicly about it yet. March 3rd, to be exact.

posted by Johio83 on Apr 20, 2016 at 12:34:17 pm     #  

And 6th, seriously, how boring would this thread be without or playful banter?

posted by Johio83 on Apr 20, 2016 at 12:42:04 pm     #  

For those that like their suds...I heard that a small brewery is in the works for South Toledo. It's going to be in one of the small commercial spaces located at the Detroit / Byrne intersection (roughly where Hungry Howie's Pizza was located).

posted by Solleks on Apr 20, 2016 at 04:14:39 pm     #  

Solleks posted at 04:14:39 PM on Apr 20, 2016:

For those that like their suds...I heard that a small brewery is in the works for South Toledo. It's going to be in one of the small commercial spaces located at the Detroit / Byrne intersection (roughly where Hungry Howie's Pizza was located).

It will be a brewery and taproom.

http://earnestbrewworks.com

http://m.toledoblade.com/Peach-Weekender/2015/12/03/S-Toledoans-to-open-Earnest-Brew-Works.html

... 4342 S. Detroit Ave. by early summer.

EBW, which will be located at the southern end of Byrne Road near the Anthony Wayne Trail, will have a taproom that’s open three days a week — likely Thursday through Saturday.

The bar will feature 12 taps with a “good variety of beers,” Yarnell said.

Yarnell is the president of the Glass City Mashers homebrewing club, and taught a homebrewing course for beginners at Owens Community College Learning Center Maumee this fall. He has been brewing for more than 20 years. Snyder, also a member of the Mashers, has been brewing for about seven years.


Chris at Black Frog Brewery plans to open a taproom soon at
831 S McCord, Holland, OH.

http://www.blackfrogbrewery.com


The Black Cloister was a taproom, but last winter, it amended its license to be able to sell beer produced by other brewers and to sell other alcohol, such as bourbon and wine. The amended license also permits the Black Cloister to sell appetizer like foods, such as pretzel bites. I don't know what this license is called.

I think that a taproom license still means that the business can only sell the beer that it brews, and it cannot sell other types of alcohol, and it cannot sell its own food.


Last year, the Great Black Swamp Brewing Company made the Mucky Duck in Perrsyburg home for selling their beer.

http://m.toledoblade.com/Food/2015/10/15/GBS-Brewing-Co-to-launch-new-location-with-a-party.html

posted by jr on Apr 20, 2016 at 05:10:05 pm     #  

Chris's Cream of the Frog is a fantastic beer. I might have to say it's my favorite beer to come out of the Toledo area.

posted by Johio83 on Apr 20, 2016 at 05:19:17 pm     #   1 person liked this

so much beer, so little time....

posted by endcycle on Apr 21, 2016 at 03:24:48 pm     #  

Toledo Beer Week this week, it's been fun. Lots of great beers around for this week only...

posted by SensorG on Apr 21, 2016 at 03:54:20 pm     #  

Scott Yarnell's brewery could be successful even if he was just selling to his friends. His beer is AWESOME, and I am no connoisseur, but wow, it's tasty.

posted by Anniecski on Apr 21, 2016 at 03:54:45 pm     #  

Yesterday I saw that a few goats have returned to the house on Collingwood.

:)

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 22, 2016 at 09:39:40 am     #   4 people liked this

Oh that's good to hear! I was told they were moving / selling the house. Wonder if that's changed... ✌️

posted by upso on Apr 22, 2016 at 10:42:11 am     #  

Yea, I heard they were moving back to Calif last fall. Would hate to see the goats go. Love that fresh milk, especially in coffee.

posted by decent28 on Apr 25, 2016 at 05:39:53 pm     #  

I realize baseball attendance lags in April, but after opening day and weekend were disastrously bad, I expected some pent-up-interest for Hens games. Especially with all the Hensville hoopla.

Anything but that has happened and last night I really doubt there were more than 200 fans at the game. It appeared that a majority of the sections were completely empty. It'll take many capacity crowds to bump the average attendance per game.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 28, 2016 at 08:26:47 am     #  

6th_Floor posted at 08:26:47 AM on Apr 28, 2016:

I realize baseball attendance lags in April, but after opening day and weekend were disastrously bad, I expected some pent-up-interest for Hens games. Especially with all the Hensville hoopla.

Anything but that has happened and last night I really doubt there were more than 200 fans at the game. It appeared that a majority of the sections were completely empty. It'll take many capacity crowds to bump the average attendance per game.

It's been pretty chilly and windy - I seem to remember last year had better weather around opening day.

posted by endcycle on Apr 28, 2016 at 08:52:31 am     #  

Weather: 53 degrees, partly cloudy.
Wind: 11 mph, In from RF.
First pitch: 6:35 PM.
T: 2:49.
Att: 3,688.
Venue: Fifth Third Field.
April 27, 2016

As I suggested for the opening day attendance lie of 12,764.

Drop the last digit from the 3,688 lie, then use half the remaining # of 368 and that's about what was in the stands last night.

184 was last night's actual attendance.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 28, 2016 at 09:08:54 am     #  

Maybe tracking the attendance is outsourced from a publishing company's circulation department.

posted by justread on Apr 28, 2016 at 09:41:43 am     #   1 person liked this

Attendance can be tracked two ways turnstile clicks at the gate or ticket sales.

I thinking is safe to say they use ticket sales, so all the season ticket holders counted even sitting on their warm couches at home.

posted by In_vin_veritas on Apr 28, 2016 at 09:55:00 am     #   2 people liked this

Yeah, I was at the game Monday night, and it was nearly empty in the stadium. And it was the most beautiful day of the year, so there was no weather excuse.

posted by Johio83 on Apr 28, 2016 at 10:46:45 am     #  

The Walleye games have been no better. We went to the Tuesday walleye game and seeing this was a big game you would have thought Huntington would have been sold out. Plenty of empty seats and seeing it's inside the weather wasn't an excuse

posted by classylady on Apr 28, 2016 at 12:23:13 pm     #  

First round playoff games are usually not as full. There was only a 2 day notice to sell tickets to the last Walleye game. Check out this chart from echl.com for the 2016 playoff attendance.

Attendance Report
Team Yesterday Total Games Average
Toledo 0 22,834 4 5,709
Fort Wayne 5,717 20,858 4 5,215
Missouri 0 9,568 2 4,784
Allen 5,037 19,034 4 4,759
Colorado 0 12,907 3 4,302
Utah 0 11,906 3 3,969
Manchester 0 11,058 3 3,686
South Carolina 0 6,633 2 3,317
Idaho 0 8,924 3 2,975
Florida 0 8,694 3 2,898
Reading 0 7,742 3 2,581
Quad City 0 5,134 2 2,567
Adirondack 0 4,631 2 2,316
Wheeling 0 5,769 3 1,923
Cincinnati 0 5,132 3 1,711
Kalamazoo 0 3,033 3 1,011
League 10,754 163,857 47 3,486

posted by kam19 on Apr 28, 2016 at 01:38:52 pm     #   1 person liked this

I've been shaking my head having to listen to channel 11 news reporting live from these Walleye road game viewing "events" at Fleetwoods as if they are a big deal because a few dozen people show up. As CL mentioned, Walleye live home games are marginally attended.

I've seen at least a couple off-duty law enforcement standing outside Fleetwood's entrance on weekends and during the Walleye road game parties. That's adding to Lucas County's already multi-million waste aka hensville.

Usually TB online won't include photos of the empty sections from Hens games, i.e. yesterday's game, but photos from Tuesday's game clearly proves that hardly anybody was at the game. Attendance has been the same for all the weekday games and as mentioned by Johio, favorable weather hasn't helped put fans in the seats.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 28, 2016 at 02:42:19 pm     #  

Huntington Center was fairly full last night for the Barry Manilow concert, although I did hear that a lot of those tickets were giveaways.

As an aside, is it just me, or has parking for events gotten outrageous? $15 seems a bit steep for Toledo.

Spare me the diatribe about other cities. I used to regularly pay $50 a day when I went to Chicago when I was single and had money. I get it; we're still cheaper.

But didn't we used to be WAY cheaper?

posted by Anniecski on Apr 28, 2016 at 02:44:26 pm     #  

Good for us if we can get $15 a spot downtown. The market will decide what it can bear. As long as people are willing to pay for the $15 spots, people will charge $15. If people start avoiding them to go a block out and pay $7, then the $15 will come down. Rising parking rates are a good sign of rising economic health.

posted by Johio83 on Apr 28, 2016 at 02:53:52 pm     #  

I saw a few lots charging $20 yesterday. Obviously the market will bear $15-20 for concerts.

It's another example of "Be careful what you wish for." I certainly don't want Chicago prices here because Toledo's affordability is one of its best attributes.

Unless they're unaware that the meters are free after 5pm, nobody attending a weekday Hens game should be paying for parking when there isn't a simultaneous Huntington event.

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 28, 2016 at 02:54:13 pm     #  

"But didn't we used to be WAY cheaper?"

Still is. Just park a few blocks further away, and it's FREE.

But that requires the 'W' word: walking.

posted by jr on Apr 28, 2016 at 03:31:30 pm     #   4 people liked this

I spoke with a Mud Hens representative last week. He informed me that many season ticket holders have traded in their April tickets for the May and later dates (myself included). That would help explain the low numbers this month.

posted by Brewster on Apr 28, 2016 at 03:34:56 pm     #   2 people liked this

6th_Floor posted at 02:42:19 PM on Apr 28, 2016:

I've been shaking my head having to listen to channel 11 news reporting live from these Walleye road game viewing "events" at Fleetwoods as if they are a big deal because a few dozen people show up. As CL mentioned, Walleye live home games are marginally attended.

I've seen at least a couple off-duty law enforcement standing outside Fleetwood's entrance on weekends and during the Walleye road game parties. That's adding to Lucas County's already multi-million waste aka hensville.

Usually TB online won't include photos of the empty sections from Hens games, i.e. yesterday's game, but photos from Tuesday's game clearly proves that hardly anybody was at the game. Attendance has been the same for all the weekday games and as mentioned by Johio, favorable weather hasn't helped put fans in the seats.

Police security is a tremendous tool to for bars to keep potential problems at bay, but it's justifiably expensive.

An entity with no concern about the bottom line can afford to have the best security money can buy, whether it's needed or not.

Have there been fights and skirmishes at H'ville?

posted by jimavolt on Apr 28, 2016 at 03:52:16 pm     #  

Announced attendance for Tuesday's game 7 was just over 6,000. Yeah, there were empty seats but I think it was pretty close to the actual butts in seats. That almost doubled the attendance from last year's first round game 7.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Apr 28, 2016 at 04:17:31 pm     #  

Why pay for parking downtown? Uber will pick you up at your door and drop you off at the door of Huntington Center/ Fifth Third, or anyway....and for pickups throughout most of Toledo, its less than $15. And you dont have to drive or walk the mean streets of Ttown.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Apr 29, 2016 at 01:08:32 pm     #  

I guess $4 doughnuts haven't been enough...now Holey Toledoughnuts has started a gofundme effort to raise 20k for a storefront location of their own.

posted by 6th_Floor on May 01, 2016 at 04:53:55 pm     #   1 person liked this

That's a pretty common thing these days... businesses looking to "kickstart" what they are doing, using things like kickstarter and gofundme. Some businesses also take out small biz loans etc. Hope it works out for them! The doughnuts are great.

posted by upso on May 01, 2016 at 05:06:30 pm     #   3 people liked this

link to campaign: https://www.gofundme.com/27zwume4

posted by upso on May 01, 2016 at 06:26:12 pm     #  

upso posted at 05:06:30 PM on May 01, 2016:

That's a pretty common thing these days... businesses looking to "kickstart" what they are doing, using things like kickstarter and gofundme. Some businesses also take out small biz loans etc. Hope it works out for them! The doughnuts are great.

I don't know man... I'm usually lock-step with you on restaurant issues... but I see it as a negative sign. Like when Tom and Chee did it.
But I do understand why people use kickstart and gofundme.
Because small business loans are a mythical creature invented to get small business owners into a bank so they can extend their personal credit. :)

posted by justread on May 02, 2016 at 05:44:11 am     #   1 person liked this

Correcto justread. After the meltdown of '08 was in a position to see startups across a wide variety of businesses where the parent, sometimes the grandparent, provided the equity strength using pensions, annuities and their life work savings to aid an offspring get their feet on the ground. An emotional decision that it's only money and they loved their children and you can't take it with you anyway. Wanted to weep watching all the initial whoopla go into the effort knowing full well in six months it would all be gone. Poof! The vultures don't give a damn what damage they perpetuate. They get their pound of flesh on the frontside. Not meant to be a redirect of the thread since biting the dust is the post. All those flashy financial institutions spend a great deal of effort targeting assets and smoothly figuring out how to pull that money from your pocket into theirs.

posted by Mariner on May 02, 2016 at 08:07:50 am     #  

I wish Holey Toledoughnuts would state where the store front will be.

The smart move would be to ask for investors. I'm sure they could get ten investors to front $2,000 each for a small loan or investment in the company.

I love Holey Toledo and they have a great product but I'm sure not going to just give a for profit company a handout without anything in return.

posted by classylady on May 02, 2016 at 11:20:33 am     #  

I don't see this ending well. I tried a selection of their doughnuts last summer, and not a one of them was worth what they cost, to me. YMMV, of course.

It seems to me that their current setup (supplying existing storefronts with wares) is probably the smartest way to go.

Of course, maybe I just don't have a fully developed appreciation for artisan doughnuts.

posted by gamegrrl on May 02, 2016 at 11:38:54 am     #  

justread posted at 05:44:11 AM on May 02, 2016:
upso posted at 05:06:30 PM on May 01, 2016:

That's a pretty common thing these days... businesses looking to "kickstart" what they are doing, using things like kickstarter and gofundme. Some businesses also take out small biz loans etc. Hope it works out for them! The doughnuts are great.

I don't know man... I'm usually lock-step with you on restaurant issues... but I see it as a negative sign. Like when Tom and Chee did it.
But I do understand why people use kickstart and gofundme.

Because small business loans are a mythical creature invented to get small business owners into a bank so they can extend their personal credit. :)

it really depends on the case
some businesses do a kickstarter even when already 100% funded, just for the press it can bring.

I have zero visibility into the doughnut business in Toledo but the difference between this guy and the Tom and Chee example is he has already established himself in the Toledo market while Tom and Chee was completely unproven.

Regardless, we'll have to wait and see! :)p

posted by upso on May 02, 2016 at 01:12:51 pm     #  

upso posted at 01:12:51 PM on May 02, 2016:
justread posted at 05:44:11 AM on May 02, 2016:
upso posted at 05:06:30 PM on May 01, 2016:

That's a pretty common thing these days... businesses looking to "kickstart" what they are doing, using things like kickstarter and gofundme. Some businesses also take out small biz loans etc. Hope it works out for them! The doughnuts are great.

I don't know man... I'm usually lock-step with you on restaurant issues... but I see it as a negative sign. Like when Tom and Chee did it.
But I do understand why people use kickstart and gofundme.


Because small business loans are a mythical creature invented to get small business owners into a bank so they can extend their personal credit. :)

it really depends on the case
some businesses do a kickstarter even when already 100% funded, just for the press it can bring.

I have zero visibility into the doughnut business in Toledo but the difference between this guy and the Tom and Chee example is he has already established himself in the Toledo market while Tom and Chee was completely unproven.

Regardless, we'll have to wait and see! :)p

I didn't mean to directly compare Tom and Chee and this guy, other to say it is what comes to mind when I hear about kickstarters. But you make a good point about the concept being somewhat proven in some form.

I hope they do well. I am not their competitor. :)

posted by justread on May 02, 2016 at 01:50:18 pm     #  

It's time to get past the negative connotation towards crowd sourcing/ funding. This is a newer, more viable option, particularly for the "makers" that can give gifts/ rewards from their business. I just had a winery client do an indiegogo- and raised $100's of k's to buy some pretty insane vineyard land and develop it.

posted by ahmahler on May 02, 2016 at 06:34:57 pm     #  

ahmahler posted at 06:34:57 PM on May 02, 2016:

It's time to get past the negative connotation towards crowd sourcing/ funding. This is a newer, more viable option, particularly for the "makers" that can give gifts/ rewards from their business. I just had a winery client do an indiegogo- and raised $100's of k's to buy some pretty insane vineyard land and develop it.

To a certain extent, some generations may not as easily embrace the dynamic as others. We bring our own baggage and experience. So perhaps if your context is that cool winery client, and my context is the Tom and Chee folks, because they were such a recent example, it may not be as much of a "time to get past" as a difference of informing experiences. Individually, I can "get past" the connotation on a case by case basis, and genuinely wish only well for the donut guy. And I applaud the winery, although I sense it might not be in our region, and may be dealing with different "economies of possibility" for lack of a better term.
Perhaps I would prefer it to be called pre-sales or investment so that it is not blurred with non-venture philanthropy. Crowd funding works I guess. Fundraising is not accurate in all cases.

posted by justread on May 02, 2016 at 07:03:31 pm     #  

I wish Holey Toledoughnuts would state where the store front will be.

Westgate?

posted by 6th_Floor on May 02, 2016 at 08:18:47 pm     #  

Westgate? What's the cost per square foot in that place?

Apr 27, 2016 - Toledo Blade story

The Westgate Village Shopping Center, already 100 percent filled, has signed three more tenants to fill a planned second-phase, 7,500-square-foot retail strip center to be built on the north side of Central Avenue near Secor Road.

Liz Holland, chief executive officer of Chicago’s Abbell Associates, owners of Westgate, said the center recently signed leases with a Mexican cuisine restaurant, a pizza restaurant, and a hair salon to occupy the center that is adjacent to another retail building with four tenants.

One of the three new tenants in the second phase will be Fuzzy’s Taco Shop, a Mexican cuisine restaurant that originated in Fort Worth, and recently got a new majority owner, NRD Capital Management, an investment fund in Atlanta.

The chain offers take-out or sit-down dining, and its niche is somewhere between fast-casual dining and full service. Fuzzy’s focuses on Mexican food and baja-style cooking, which emphasizes seafood along with traditional Mexican dishes. It also serves alcoholic drinks.

posted by jr on May 02, 2016 at 08:43:06 pm     #  

I personally believe that he's going to fail with a specific Westgate area location because the product is too expensive for what it is. But good for him if he can unload some of his financial risk via asking for donations to fund his start-up costs.

I'm just really surprised so many people are this foolish with their money, but ultimately it's theirs to spend as they wish. If I wanted to help him, I'd instead buy a dozen or so of his donuts at Black Kite or Farmers' Market.

It appears he has had some success piggybacking and over-charging for average donuts at festivals, Black Kite, and Farmers' Market, but likely will struggle having much repeat business at a specific location while charging 3-4 dollars per donut.

posted by 6th_Floor on May 02, 2016 at 08:50:19 pm     #  

He replied "Westgate area" to a question on FB asking where he was planning to open the donut shop.

posted by 6th_Floor on May 02, 2016 at 09:00:31 pm     #  

Christina Villarreal Out of curiosity. Where?
· 3 · Yesterday at 8:49am
Holey Toledough - Handcrafted Doughnuts
Holey Toledough - Handcrafted Doughnuts Westgate area
· 7 · Yesterday at 9:29am

https://www.facebook.com/HoleyToledough/

posted by 6th_Floor on May 02, 2016 at 09:04:24 pm     #  

Folks are saying cricket west

posted by upso on May 02, 2016 at 09:51:17 pm     #   1 person liked this

I see on the news Party in the Park is returning to Downtown, first concert is this Friday. It will be at Hensville but they didn't say how much tickets are. I'm surprised this hasn't been advertised more heavily.

posted by classylady on May 02, 2016 at 11:51:15 pm     #  

$15 for each Hensville Friday concert only ticket.

posted by 6th_Floor on May 03, 2016 at 12:17:34 am     #  

Tickets starting at $10-15...Still debating what to charge for the patio at Fleetwoods. That was undecided as of last week.

posted by Hoops on May 03, 2016 at 08:08:37 am     #  

http://www.wsj.com/podcasts/what-are-the-best-cities-for-starting-a-business/1166565B-CDC1-477C-BB6F-7A0C893888D9.html

Quick shout out to Toledo for having ridiculously low rental rates for those looking to start a small business. It's always driven me crazy when people complain about rental rates around Toledo, because they obviously have no idea what it's like anywhere else.

posted by Johio83 on May 03, 2016 at 10:04:52 am     #  

Wasn't party in the park at Promenade only $5 or $10 and there were some big acts there sometimes in the 90s.

$15 seems pretty high.

posted by jamesteroh on May 03, 2016 at 10:34:16 am     #  

Most were free, with tickets sold for special national acts.

Were do I park my boat at Hensville Park?

posted by justread on May 03, 2016 at 12:00:33 pm     #  

Oh, that's right. Our leaders aren't boaters, so they always forget that part. I guess I go to Detroit or the Islands for opportunities to take boatfulls of guests places to spend money and see people.

We'll wave as we go by.

posted by justread on May 03, 2016 at 12:02:35 pm     #   3 people liked this

"I see on the news Party in the Park is returning to Downtown ..."

No, it's not back. Let it go. Party in the Park or Rally by the River. What I saw in the early 1990s will never return. That's okay. We wore neckties because we went right from work. Neckties. We've evolved.

Start something new, give it a different name, make new history, and don't compare it to the events held along the riverbank 25 years ago for "free" with packed crowds and boaters stacked in the river.

From the 13abc story:

If you lived or worked in Toledo during the 80s and 90s, you probably remember Party in the Park at Promenade Park.

Bands would play on Friday nights in the summer, entertaining huge crowds of people.

Yep. And on holiday weekends, bands played Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

And now the story gets absurd:

Monday, the Toledo Mud Hens announced plans to bring back the much loved event to Hensville Park this summer.

Even Hensville calls it Party in the Park.

June 2010 comment by boxingfan:

... the branding of these shows as "rally by the river" [or party in the park] is just in hopes that people feel nostalgia about the old party's

It's a good chance that a decent percentage of the people attending this Friday's Concert Series at Hensville Park event were either not born 25 years ago or were too young to remember the events of the late 1980s into the 1990s.

Sometimes, it's best to let the old ideas exist only as memories. The Hensville people know that downtown Toledo in 2016 is slightly different than downtown Toledo in 1991. I would be offended if someone tried to compare "my" new concert series at Hensville park to something that occurred a generation ago.

(I'm glad Instagram didn't exist in the 1990s.)

The Promenade Park concerts were "free" 25 years ago because

... the old Rallies were taxpayer supported, run by the city funded group CitiFest.

Back in 2010, the Friday concerts at Promenade Park tried to be revived again, but each concert cost at least $20.

A few years ago, Friday evening concerts were held outside the Huntington Center. At least the founder changed the name to Party on the Block. But that didn't stop the comparison to the past.

Toledoans remember Party In The Park from the 1980s and 1990s with affection, Held in downtown Toledo’s Promenade Park, it was the place to see and be seen, all while enjoying music in a summertime setting.

Jim Lieber’s Sounds of Music brings back the spirit of Party In The Park with Party On The Block. Beginning June 5 through Labor Day weekend, Party On The Block will take place each Friday from 4 pm. to 8 p.m. outside the Huntington Center on Huron Street.

Really? The "spirit" of Party in the Park outside the Huntington Center?

The psychobabble explanation for this clinging to the past is Seneca County Courthouse Syndrome.

And honestly, some of that "spirit" from 25 years ago, you may not want brought back.

And not all Toledoans or area residents remember the late 1980s or early 1990s because A) they didn't live here or B) they were in pre-school.

Once in a while, let the past be the past.

posted by jr on May 03, 2016 at 12:13:01 pm     #   4 people liked this

I don't recall paying anything. So they're planning to charge an even higher price to sit at Fleetwood's patio.

I'm with Jim Avolt regarding that moving forward, all of this BS needs to be permanently boycotted.

posted by 6th_Floor on May 03, 2016 at 12:17:18 pm     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 12:02:35 PM on May 03, 2016:

Oh, that's right. Our leaders aren't boaters, so they always forget that part. I guess I go to Detroit or the Islands for opportunities to take boatfulls of guests places to spend money and see people.

We'll wave as we go by.

Be sure to wave at the casino along your route because they also didn't want you effin' boaters.

posted by 6th_Floor on May 03, 2016 at 12:24:14 pm     #   3 people liked this

6th_Floor posted at 12:24:14 PM on May 03, 2016:
justread posted at 12:02:35 PM on May 03, 2016:

Oh, that's right. Our leaders aren't boaters, so they always forget that part. I guess I go to Detroit or the Islands for opportunities to take boatfulls of guests places to spend money and see people.

We'll wave as we go by.

Be sure to wave at the casino along your route because they also didn't want you effin' boaters.

That's funny.

Except that the spot on the river with the casino is unsuitable for dockage, and the very business model of a casino is to trap the customer in an indoor world with no easy escape. So, no... boaters knew there would be no casino dock.

However... we did get somewhat accustomed to the Portside docks.

That's ok. The city doesn't want us, and they asked yacht club ZERO for input on the "marina district."

See you on the Detroit river.

posted by justread on May 03, 2016 at 02:05:39 pm     #   3 people liked this

Man, I couldn't agree with you more, justread.

Back in the 80's, my boyfriend (now my husband) and I used to hit up downtown on his boat almost every weekend in the summer, dock at Portside, hit up Portside, Party in the Park, have dinner at a restaurant downtown, and it was a great time. There were so many boaters down there doing the same thing.

Boating days are behind us for now ( still have the boat, just haven't had time in years) , but I have noticed that the city has no interest in bringing the boaters (or the revenue they bring in) , back to the downtown area. I don't get it. It doesn't make sense.

posted by foodie88 on May 03, 2016 at 08:42:04 pm     #  

Huh. I must have waved at you so many times foodie88. :)

The hyper enforcement wasn't helpful for a while, that's for sure.

But when this town is in full boat mode, it's a destination and a fun place to be. Life begins at water's edge. And we are on an interesting river and a legendary lake. The loss of Promenade Park and the Portside docks was devastating for any chance of a boat enhanced main downtown. (Uh... only east siders use the marina district, and it's for seasonal docks.) Oh well. Who needs a natural resource to actually WORK for them. Just look at it. And park your car.

The loss of premium transient slips directly downtown is a freaking crime and a sin. I'm talking burn in hell level here. It is both a symptom and a symbol of the compounding effect of bad reactionary decisions where vision was needed.

Because those assholes don't know that when we had them, in advance of any improvements downtown whatsoever besides portside, we used them. Imagine what we would have done now.
It's a river that connects to the ocean, you idiots.

And it connects to cities that get it. Even Detroit for God's sake.

Screw boats. They only bring money. We have red light cameras for that. And trash fees.

posted by justread on May 03, 2016 at 09:08:36 pm     #  

So much wrong with all of this...

a) a For Profit company is given a sweetheart deal for the prime piece of real estate with a promise that they'll share, guess they're already dismissed the idea of hosting.

b) a Not for profit company decides to try to stoke nostalgia by resuscitating the long dead Party-in-the-Park, except for 2 minor details-You're now paying for locals bands, whereas as this was previously free...

c) and, it's not on the water anymore (as previously mentioned, but worth repeating)...

d) Party in the Park was always a shitshow. I would argue that those very events made the youth loathe the locals so much that half of them moved away, never to return.

Fine, have a concert. But make it free... OR, give me assurance that the local musician that's playing to these crowds is receiving the majority of the cover charge, as they aren't Not-for-profit entities. But please, don't call it party-in-the-park. Instead, call it drink on the astroturf/ parking lot while women scream WOOOOOO! in your ear every 3 minutes. Actually, that is sort of like Party-In-The-Park...

posted by ahmahler on May 04, 2016 at 08:16:28 am     #  

Hey ahmahler, you like boating? Ever been on the Detroit River? It's clear and fast running. Tons of places to stop. Just a few miles north of Monroe and you are seeing beautiful Grosse Ile.

I mean, it's no astroturf....

posted by justread on May 04, 2016 at 08:23:04 am     #  

justread, you're obviously a) a boater, b) very knowledgeable about the topic, and c) have strong opinions about its benefit to the area. I've asked you about it in the past (might have been this thread, actually), but I'll ask again:

What are you doing about it? And what can others do about it?

I'm not meaning that facetiously in any way. There are a lot of people working hard to make downtown and the riverfront what it could/should be. If you have time, you should attend tonight's presentation by MKSK on behalf of the 22nd Century Committee at the library. I was at the preview for it last week, and there will be a lot of waterfront discussion.

The long and short of it: every movement needs a champion. There are so many things people want to see happen, and many of them are in the works. It pains me to see how active the waterfront was in the late 80's and early 90's, and I don't think enough can be said for it's importance in a vibrant Toledo, but unless someone steps up to grab the issue by the reins, it's not likely to become a reality. You seem like a guy who has not only the passion for this issue, but the understanding of what it might take to make it happen.

So back to the two questions: what are you doing about it, and what can others do about it? And I guess a third, what outside forces need harnessed/changed/etc. One complaint I've heard pretty frequently is that the waterways are over-enforced, so rather than running the risk of being boarded, they'll just stick by the islands instead of coming to the river.

posted by Johio83 on May 04, 2016 at 08:53:51 am     #  

@justread
So the Detroit River is part US and part Canada? Are there issues if you drift over onto the Canadian side of the river? Might be a weird question...

posted by wahhutch9 on May 04, 2016 at 08:55:51 am     #  

justread posted at 08:23:04 AM on May 04, 2016:

Hey ahmahler, you like boating? Ever been on the Detroit River? It's clear and fast running. Tons of places to stop. Just a few miles north of Monroe and you are seeing beautiful Grosse Ile.

I mean, it's no astroturf....

I'm a proficient imbiber and observer. Until they install brakes, I'll stick to kayaks and leave the driving and pointing to someone else.

posted by ahmahler on May 04, 2016 at 08:57:22 am     #  

justread posted at 08:23:04 AM on May 04, 2016:

Hey ahmahler, you like boating? Ever been on the Detroit River? It's clear and fast running. Tons of places to stop. Just a few miles north of Monroe and you are seeing beautiful Grosse Ile.

I mean, it's no astroturf....

The drive along East River and West River (Trenton Channel) Roads is beautiful. Stately mansions and modern mansions with manicured lawns especially on East River. I can only imagine how it must be to view from the water. I actually lived on the southern end of the island for a couple of years in my early teens - no where near any of the stately mansions. We lived in the "poor" area of the island. But, I know the island quite well and it is indeed a beautiful place.

posted by Foodie on May 04, 2016 at 08:59:16 am     #  

"a) a For Profit company is given a sweetheart deal for the prime piece of real estate with a promise that they'll share, guess they're already dismissed the idea of hosting."

ahmahler where do you see that Promedica has dismissed the idea of doing parties, or holding events in the space along the river? Maybe I missed that.

posted by glasscityguy on May 04, 2016 at 09:16:34 am     #  

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