Another downtown watering hole bites the dust...Easy Street Bar.

"But the downtown Toledo Farmer's Market is open only on Saturday's from 8:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m."

But it's a farmers market, not a full-service store. If a farmers market, which really only has probably 10% of what people would typically need in their grocery shopping, can bring that many people out to an otherwise desolate location of town (the only other thing there is the Libbey outlet), I would have to believe a full-service grocer would have no worries about traffic.

"I would have to believe a full-service grocer would have no worries about traffic."

If Trader Joe's or any other grocery store "believed" the same way, then a store would have opened downtown years ago. But I have a feeling that these companies don't open stores based upon beliefs. They probably rely on a more complex set of data than foot traffic for six hours a week at a farmer's market.

I visit the Perrysburg farmer's market on many Thursday evenings, and it's also busy. And it's growing. It has the room to add new vendors on both sides of the street and on a couple side streets. If farmer's markets are an indicator, then I guess this is another sign that a Trader Joe's would work in the Levis Commons area or on Route 20 east of I-75.

Based upon the current locations of Trader Joe's in Ohio and Michigan, opening a store in the downtown of a mid-sized city would be out of character for Trader Joe's.

"Has there ever been a coop downtown? You'd think with the warehouse, uptown, and owe associations, organizing members would be feasible."

For years, the tiny but sufficient Phoenix Earth Food Co-op has wanted to move further west (west of Douglas Road) to be closer to a large percentage of their customers.

Some items are cheaper at the co-op than elsewhere while many items are not. But the co-op only sells organic or environmentally-friendly food products and household items. They will sell food products from local producers when available.

The shockingly small size of the co-op would probably baffle most area shoppers who are used to patronizing giant stores. But the co-op is my favorite grocery store, and I shop there once a week for food and non-food items.

Other places that I occasionally shop at for food include The Fresh Market, Health Foods by Claudia, Zavotski Custom Meats & Deli, The Andersons, and farmer's markets.

A bit more about the co-op wanting to move from this February 2013 comment

Sure, but a co-op's location is in large part determined by the members that form it. If there were enough people in the warehouse, downtown, uptown, and owe areas that wanted a co-op and could sustain it, they could decide to put it in walking/biking distances to those neighborhoods.
When I lived in Minnesota, co-ops were everywhere, but that's mostly cultural.

Well the questions start being what are the old Krogers (Spring Meadows and Glendale/Reynolds) going to be after Kroger builds/moves?

Old Churchill's location is available?

AC said: Well the questions start being what are the old Krogers (Spring Meadows and Glendale/Reynolds) going to be after Kroger builds/moves?

I've heard the SM area isn't faring as well as in the mid 2000s. So that location may sit empty.

I never have occasion to go that way myself, hence I'm just not going to check.

I never understood why two Krogers were so close together on the eastern end of Glendale; you can stand in the road near the Glendale/Byrne plaza entrance and see the Krogers building corner at Glendale/Detroit. I've gone to both of those often enough, and both were hoppin' busy. And there's another Krogers at the western end, Glendale/Reynolds as you say. At any rate, I can't predict that one.

I was a member at Phoenix for a few years, but quit going after finding alternatives during the Sylvania Avenue construction.

I've never seen so much anticipation and wishful thinking about a grocery store as certain Toledoans seem to have about one locating within the WHD.

If WHD ever gets a grocery store, I see it being more similar to Phoenix than Trader Joes or any other major chain.

In spite of the regular fools here who state Table 44 is doing a great amount of business, they still aren't paying their property taxes.

In March 2012 I posted that they were 13k behind.

I decided to test whether or not the fools' claims about Table 44's success would show up via them paying some of their delinquent property taxes.

Nope. Areis currently is showing 610 Monroe Street (Table 44) owing $23,915.22 delinquent property taxes.

The city of Toledo should be forcing deadbeat businesses such as Table 44 to either pay what they owe or shut their doors.

any idea how far behind they'd have to be to rack up 24k?

Paid over 3k in Feb and Jul last year, but that didn't cover previous taxes or new taxes. Hasn't paid anything this year. Looks like they bought it in 2009, there was some regular tax payments made until 2011. They are on a monthly payment plan but not keeping up.

Oops paid something in Feb and Nov 2012.

Nolan Rosenkrans, is there any chance for your bosses to print a story about area businesses not paying their owed property taxes?

I think Toledoans should be aware what area businesses aren't paying owed taxes. Personally, if I know a business is owned by deadbeats, I won't spend my money there.

Upso, at this point, merely the interest and penalties are adding a few k per year onto what they already aren't paying. I believe I read on my most recent property tax statement the interest and penalties were increased, too. So, 44 soon will be totally buried by an avalanche of interest and penalties, plus the regular bi-annual billed amount.

The city should not allow this for an indefinite time period. Either 44's owners should have to pay the full balance or the property should be sold via a sheriff's auction.

Were you drunk when you posted this johio83?

I don't know what the deal with them being behind on their tax payments, but I do know that they're doing well. They've poured quite a bit of the money generated by the downtown location to renovate the Chop House into a second Table Forty 4 spot.

They've done a heck of a job with 610 though, haven't they?

! posted by Johio83 on Feb 17, 2012 at 04:35:07 pm

Yeah, it looks obvious how well they're doing at 610 Monroe dba Table Forty 4.

I don't know how those are mutually exclusive. Chop House was failing, Table Forty 4 (at least a year ago, I can't speak for now) was doing very well. He took the profits from the downtown location and used it to try to revive the Maumee spot. It didn't work. I don't see how the Maumee spot not being able to survive means my statement was inaccurate.

Johio, how can you call it "taking profits" when by legal and accounting definition, past due bills like property taxes mean you had no profits? The IRS and courts won't agree with you that you had profits if you had, for example, borrowed money then declared bankruptcy on it all.

I just checked the AERIS record for 610 Monroe St, the street address of the land parcel containing Table Forty 4. They're at $23K past due right now. Come Aug 1st, that will rise to $29K. And this trouble started in 2009 (all documented on AERIS), meaning the "deep pockets" effect of camouflaging bed investment in downtown Toledo is running out. We really did crash the U.S. economy in 2008/2009, and all the government's done since then was camouflage it.

It's all a huge scam. A fraud. Somebody's gotta say the emperor's naked.

P.S. I wonder when there's going to be a fire at Table Forty 4.

No doubt, not paying taxes is not ok. I have absolutely no disagreement there. But just because somebody didn't pay their taxes doesn't mean they didn't have profits. When I wrote that comment 6th quoted from a year and a half ago, I know they were bringing in good money, which they then poured into the other location. Obviously that bet didn't pay off, and they should have just used the money to pay their taxes like they're supposed to, as anyone with an income should do. As for how they're doing these days, I have no idea.

Remember when Greg Fish at South Toledo Golf Club couldn't pay his taxes the City gave him a contract to run the municipal courses. Agreed GZ.

Johio, seriously, I used English. If you avoid paying your bills then imperiously declare you're profitable, then legally speaking you're in error; your balance sheet is unbalanced. By generally accepted accounting principles, you can't claim certified results. That's why we have accounting rules in the first place: To determine the winners and losers. And I'd have to say that Table Forty 4 is a loser.

At $23915 owed on a yearly tax bill of $10476, albeit packed with interest or penalties, that's 2.25 years equivalent tax owed. Just a few months coming up, that's 2.75 years. Table Forty 4 is done, like a good Thanksgiving dinner. Time to re-name it "Table Mortal Coil".

Once again, I'm not refuting that they are obligated to pay their taxes. But the question was whether or not they were making money, which at that time, they were. Whether or not they paid their taxes has nothing to do with their profitability at the time. This is why the IRS exists, because not everyone who makes money pays their taxes.

.... not to derail this awesomely off-topic conversation, but i drive by Easy Street every day on my way home and I have been seeing more and more activity lately. Any news on it?

should be open by summer! i've met the developers and they are really amped to get it rolling

GuestZero said:

By generally accepted accounting principles, you can't claim certified results. That's why we have accounting rules in the first place: To determine the winners and losers.

Shows what you know. There is only ONE rule in accounting: YOU CAN MAKE THE NUMBERS DO OR SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT THEM TO IF YOU KNOW HOW TO DO IT RIGHT.

For the record, I don't give a flying fuck who's making/not making what downtown. Or in South Toledo. Or pretty much anywhere else.

If you've got the deep pockets or found some venture capitalists or filled out 10,000 bank forms to finance your dream of working your ass off, hey go for it.

But I do give a flying fuck about back taxes. I hate it. As I said in an earlier thread, unless there is some documented tax dispute case proceeding through the courts (federal/state/local--don't care), stiffing the tax man should be a mortal injury for a business or building owner. Instead, somehow, these bills are allowed to keep getting bigger.

In the meantime, Mr. and Mrs. Small Potatoes worry about a full anal exam audit over a $250 deduction they mistakenly thought was still legal, but didn't realize expired the previous year (for example). What a FUBAR system.

Johio said: Whether or not they paid their taxes has nothing to do with their profitability at the time.

That you persist with that nonsense shows that you're borderline mentally retarded in finance and business. Please never try to run a business of any sort, be it a Fortune 500 firm or a lemonade stand. Your own accountant would shut you down.

Necessarily this is the last time I intend to point these things out to you. I'll leave further responsibility for that to your psychiatrist.

Endcycle said: i drive by Easy Street every day on my way home and I have been seeing more and more activity lately

That's surprising. What activity is that?

You know, I'll drop by the library tonight, and will take the opportunity to swing by there.

Businesses not paying taxes, but freeloading from services that are provided by tax dollars (I wonder how much water a restaurant uses...) is something to get angry about. Freeloading on a scale that big just makes the burden on the individual taxpayers even heavier.

Sohio desperately said: "YOU CAN MAKE THE NUMBERS DO OR SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT"

If that was true, then AERIS would show them paid up to date. You can't make external bills just go away, Sohio. For that, you generally need to buy a Congressman.

My personal opinion is that the owners of T44 are gambling that the city or county just won't go after them for the property taxes, due to the downtown development scam being so popular right now. Maybe that's the correct gamble. And maybe it's not. Looking that two of you idiots posting here can't even bring yourselves to admit the emperor is naked, shows that it's a distinct possibility.

Aaaaaaand back to people with conversational skills that don't require an insult with every breath.

I'm pretty pumped about Easy Street. It's such a beautiful building, and I think could really offer something Toledo doesn't have. There aren't many options for people who want an urban residence, but don't like the idea of being in a high rise apartment, and I think this will address that very well.

#1

As someone with very close information on Table Forty 4, they're doing just fine. I don't know what the deal is with the $13K owed to the city, but they're paid up on everything else. And doing well enough to have refurbished the Maumee Chop House to be updated into a second Table Forty 4 location.

posted by Johio83 on Mar 21, 2012 at 11:05:12 pm

----------------------

They probably weren't doing fine a year ago, but it isn't important since we now can conclude they're obviously doing "less fine" as well as not paying anything toward their delinquent and growing property tax debt.

Nothing positive has happened to improve their business from a year ago. In fact, plenty has happened to decrease it since last year. Most notably the opening of Cock N' Bull, which seemingly has taken some of their former customers.

#2

Well that amount is only one pay period delinquent. That would be like if a credit card company cancelled your card if you fell behind on it. If that happened, very few people would have credit cards anymore. It wouldn't behoove them to do that, because they'd lose too many customers who would otherwise make good on their debts. Now, if they hadn't paid up since '08 or something like that, then there would probably be more cause for concern.

posted by Johio83 on Mar 22, 2012 at 07:02:23 am

-------------------------

It isn't the same as one credit card period. They are 2.5 years delinquent and it will soon be equal to 3 years delinquent.

I think it's important to note that they've only owned the building since April 2009. So they haven't even paid close to half their billed amount.

These owners obviously are spread too thin financially. A lien should be placed on the property to force them to either pay the entire debt or sell the property to pay the debt.

Johio: Whether or not they paid their taxes has nothing to do with their profitability at the time. This is why the IRS exists, because not everyone who makes money pays their taxes.

So they are just criminals, not people with a cash flow problem. That is an important distinction.

The IRS has nothing to do with county property tax, If you don't pay all your bills are you profitable? Suppose they paid their taxes but never paid for any of their food or other supply companies. Would they then still be in business and making a profit. I'm not a CPA but don't you have to subtract ALL your costs from your income to determine NET income? I would say that property tax is part of that cost of doing business. The owners wife's new car wouldn't be but property tax on the building your business is in sure would be.

"It isn't the same as one credit card period. They are 2.5 years delinquent and it will soon be equal to 3 years delinquent."

Right, but at the time I said the quote you posted from me, it was February '12, and there was only one payment of record (2nd half '11) that they were delinquent on. It's a very different situation now, obviously, as they still haven't made a payment. We aren't disagreeing with each other here.

When I have the time later this week, I'm going to research other downtown businesses.

It wouldn't surprise me if other business owners repeatedly mentioned here as having fantastic business acumen, with allegedly well-run, profit-oozing businesses are in fact broke zombies far behind with property tax payments.

Is there reason to believe this would be exclusive to downtown? I mean, Chop House was in Maumee, and that's failed three times in two years. (Chop House, Table Forty 4, Celtic)

That area is all cursed Indian burial ground, I'm sure of it.

johio83 makes a good point. i'm curious to know, city wide, how bad thing really are!

Johio, I'll mostly be looking at downtown parcels. However, by all means post any and every business owner you know about throughout the metro area not paying property taxes.

Tom Cousino has owed 10's of thousands of unpaid property taxes at both his steak house and the now closed and bank repossessed Pasqualone's restaurant property. He recently transferred ownership of the steak house building to some llc I believe that's owned by his son. However, unpaid property taxes still exist there.

Also, he walked away from 100k of unpaid rent at the docks location before being evicted. Nobody should be eating at his steak house knowing how he has skated paying what he owes.

Upso, you have close contacts at City Paper and Free Press...make it happen. It's time to start exposing these crooks! I believe some public humiliation may shame many of them to at least pay some of what's owed.

Fred L, if you are reading this how about some WSPD air time?

One would think that if the City is crying that they are broke and have to jack up rates on everything that they would be all over delinquent taxpayers like white on rice. How many people would be happy to hear that their water bills are going up while these guys are tens of thousands behind on taxes?

The water bills are going up either way.

How different would the situation be if businesses that use so much water as part of their everyday operations paid their taxes on time? Would as much of the burden fall on the individual taxpayers in the city? Probably not. Yes, there are going to be rate increases, especially with the upgraded infrastructure, but the increases wouldn't be as high for individuals if heavy users actual paid for their share instead of paying nothing at all for multiple years.

@6th i'm pretty sure all the papers are reading this message board :)

Looks like the dust in Toledo has more tooth marks when you look closely.

A good friend bent my ear last night about Michael's Bar & Grill; she asked me to look it up on AERIS. I did so, and found yet another tax deadbeat. I don't know who is really responsible at this point, since MB&G is family entwined with the "LAGRANGE INVESTMENT CORPORATION" that owns the property itself.

Address: 901 Monroe St
Parcel: 1217671
Status: "DELINQUENT PAYMENT PLAN"
Payments: about $220/mo
1st Half Due: $3669.52
Collected: $436.77
2nd Half Due: $4071.40
Collected: $878.79

On the payment plan, apparently taxes are applied to the 2nd Half too. So I have to take the entire year as a unit. GOOD.

From total taxes due of $3669.52+$4071.40=$7740.92, these guys are paying about $220/mo, therefore $2640/yr.

Therefore, the building that Michael's Bar & Grill is in, is behind. Seriously behind. On this so-called payment plan, they're projected to end up $5100 in the hole by year's end.

This is why I keep demanding that you cheerleaders tell us which of these places are the downtown success stories.

{pause} Huh. I remembered that MB&G has a neighboring building and parking lot. Those are also behind in their property taxes.

Address: 903 Monroe St (half of a building)
Parcel: 1217667
Due (year): $2072.76+$2269.36=$4342.12
Payment plan: about $120/mo
Year End Balance: about $2900 still owed

Address: 907 Monroe St (remaining half of a building)
Parcel: 1217664
Due (year): $2278.02+$2458.87=$4736.89
Payment plan: about $120/mo
Year End Balance: about $3300 still owed

Address: 909 Monroe St (parking lot used by MB&G)
Parcel: 1217661
Due (year): $1159.96+$1269.10=$2429.06
Payment plan: about $70/mo
Year End Balance: about $1600 still owed

Phew! For such a tiny stretch of Monroe Street, that's $12900 delinquent pretty much guaranteed by year's end.

What I know about the LDC so far is:

Name: LAGRANGE INVESTMENT CORPORATION
Ohio Corporation: 929674
Registered Agent: George M Yakumithis
Incorporator: Paul F. Syring
Status: Cancelled

Further research shows that a Michael Yakumithis is the owner of MB&G, and the principal is John Yakumithis. Probably the same family.

Ref: http://www.manta.com/c/mm5t700/michael-s-bar-grill

Disclaimer

I have no connection to these entities. Also, AERIS is fairly clear about money flows, so any errors noted above would belong to the office of the Lucas County Auditor.

UPSO said: i'm pretty sure all the papers are reading this message board

Then they'd better get hopping. I'd love to see a weekly series in The Blade called "Deadbeat Toledo" or "Untaxed Toledo", where one of these deadbeats is featured, interviewed, and their family and corporate finances traced down to the last embarrassing purchase of lacey underwear.

Nolan Rosenkranz, where are you?

What can they actually do? Take possession of the properties? Put a lien on them?
I can't see the county running these business's because when has any form of government ever ran anything but into the ground, a lien is possible if the property is ever sold they get something from the sale but what does that do to a business trying to operate? In this economy its going to be tough to ever realize anything from these deadbeats.
What surprises me is that some of these establishments that people were raving over as doing great, apparently aren't. From outside appearances Cousino was successful and doing great from all the posts and news I read for the last 5 years. And now it turns out he's been racking up debt that he has somehow walked away from? Are some people getting off the hook by favoritism? I don't know who knows who in Toledo I don't follow who are members of whatever party or team that seem to control the area, and frankly don't care to far as that goes. But you have to wonder sometimes if this is all just a big scam for people to scratch each others backs and make money while racking up debt else where than pocket the cash and leave before its discovered. Who ends up on the hook for all the unpaid taxes when the shit hits the fan?

GZ-

I don't believe that your numbers are correct. For 901 Monroe Street...

The half taxes are $838.65 (Net Generals of 679.74 plus Net Specials of $158.91) Prior to that period, it looks like they owed $2,830.87 in taxes, interest and fees from prior periods. Once they didn't make their first half payment in January 2013, that figure is rolled forward into the 2nd half total.

It appears that 901 Monroe has been on a payment plan for quite some time - not necessarily keeping up with it though (it would appear.)

They made a payment of $218.43 on 10/5/12 and a $218.34 payment on 1/23/13 - both of which were applied to the first half taxes due.

Subsequently, they made payments of $218.43, $218.43, $217.55, and $224.38 in Feb.-May 2013 - those payments were applied to the second half taxes.

As a result of all of this, they have total outstanding due totaling $3,192.61 - which is due 7/31/13.

This does not take into account any payments that they make between now and 7/31/13. Any payments made, will be reduced from that total.

Still not good, and unacceptable - but not as bad as you had originally indicated above.

I don't have the time to double-check them all, but I'm going to assume that the rest of the figures you provided also are off a little bit.

Basically, if you go to the "summary" page on AREIS and scroll to the taxes at the bottom... the total amount due on 7/31/13(current and delinquent) is listed under the "2nd Half" column in the "unpaid" row. Honestly, I don't recall if that includes fees and interest, or not.

His numbers were on when I looked two days ago. Unless they just recently updated the sites data.

Its 610 Monroe street by the way you have the wrong address.

I'd be interested to see those spread sheets side by side. The amount that they intend to raise with increases is enormous.

No, you have the wrong address. He is talking about Micheal's.

The numbers he used and posted are still on AREIS. He is just interpreting them incorrectly.

Thought they were still talking about table 44.

So have they finalized what they're doing? Is it just condos or are they doing the bar/grille again? HOPING the latter - it's where my fiance and I met. :)

Nope, just 5 two story townhouses. (That was the plan when they started anyway, I'd doubt anything has changed)

condos! 4 or 5 units i believe.

whoops. Johio beat me to it

Well, well, well...so even the fabulously profitable Michael's isn't timely or paying their full amount of owed property taxes.

It looks as if there is one other parcel assigned to them. It also appears they haven't paid ANYTHING since 4-23-2008.

Current status for 915 Monroe Street owned by Lagrange Investment Corporation is listed below.

1st Half 2nd Half
Homestead Red. :
Net General : 178.72 357.44
Net Specials : 43.54 87.08
Tax Due : 2,663.69 2,908.18
*Collected : 0.00 0.00 *
Unpaid : 2,663.69 2,908.18

I'm not going to post the address, since those who want to know can easily search areis for the information. However, it looks like this family owns a personal residence in Maumee which is more than 10k behind and paying via a delinquent payment plan.

The actual ownership is confusing since the purchase was from one family member to another. Also, the current owner is a different family member than name provided for the current mailing address.

They do appear to be making an attempt to pay the balance. Regardless, it's another 10k of unpaid county property taxes.

You missed my point. As usual.

AREIS can say whatever. A crafty accountant can take any set of numbers and make them say whatever he/she wants them to say. I didn't say you can make external bills go away (aren't most bills 'external?') but even with outstanding debts you can still display a profit. It happens all the time.

And I didn't say anything 'desperately.' But, your excessive and inappropriate use of superfluous adjectives does do an admirable job of masking the lack of substance in your posts. That was a trick I learned when I used to write ad copy...are you an old ad man too?

1st Half 2nd Half
Homestead Red. : 308.40 616.80
Net General : 1,706.28 3,412.56
Net Specials : 16.08 32.16
Tax Due : 11,877.87 12,372.42
Collected : 1,227.81 1,511.82
Unpaid : 10,650.06 10,860.60

Maumee property with unpaid property taxes.

LC: What can they actually do? Take possession of the properties? Put a lien on them?

Yes, in the case of T44 where the owner has completely stopped paying, the city/county should swiftly move to seize the property. They don't have to operate the business, there would be a long line of buyers at a low enough price.

It's likely delinquent property owners would more quickly pay their property taxes if they knew seizure was a swift process.

The Easy Street property racked up nearly 70k of unpaid property taxes before the doors finally closed. And I believe ESC closing had more to do with a bank foreclosure than a city/county seizure.

Brainswell said: I think GZ should keep hi[s] mouth shut about unpaid taxes on commercial properties[.]

I don't see that happening. What I do see happening is failing businesses while you people indulge in doublethink about it.

Michael's and 901 Monroe St are owned by the same family, as far as I can see. So whatever you're blathering about is moot. Michael's is failing, because the same people haven't secured the taxes that cover every square foot under its furniture and equipment, which in a sane society would be at risk. The risk involves the padlock, the movers and the auctioneer.

But they aren't at risk, are they? They're getting this pass from the county government. It's so obvious that I really don't know why they're bothering paying any of those taxes. What are Gerken, Wozniak and Generic Placeholder going to do about it? Nothing, that's what. They have to maintain the illusion that downtown businesses are real by generally accepted accounting principles.

Ultimately the old adage is true: You can't cheat an honest man. There are few honest men in Toledo. Very few. The majority are getting the deceitful government that they deserve. They apparently believe in unfairness and getting something for nothing. I'm sure they hope for such for themselves; their time at the trough, so to speak. So they watch glumly but ever hopefully while the usual suspects gorge themselves.

Sohio said: I didn't say you can make external bills go away (aren't most bills 'external?') but even with outstanding debts you can still display a profit.

Not under generally accepted accounting principles. Am I using the right language here for you? Would my explanation actually understood if I used French or German for you? Let me know, since English really isn't penetrating you.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Arts/2013/05/19/20-North-Gallery-closes-Toledo.html

20 N. St. Clair goes dark...more to follow. Oh my, how will Toledo survive with another closed downtown business?

Another hit for WHD enthusiasts.

20 North Gallery is now the third business on St. Clair that has bit the dust this year along 2 blocks of "prime" WHD real estate.

Spin away folks, but the truth is getting more difficult to suppress.

You really shouldn't appear so gleeful that business's are closing downtown.

LC, I realize it rubs people the wrong way here but shit happens.

Yea. And 24 months? Lame bet. Say three months and you're a little more ballsy.

! posted by slowsol on May 04, 2013 at 02:07:36 pm # +

You were correct. 18-24 months was far too much rope for the idiots at Fort on the River. Two different downtown-based friends have told me that The Fort on the River or whatever it's called already has closed or is at "Any day now status."

Hunky, I'm flattered to be the first person to "like" the moronic post you made above.

I couldn't care less what you think about me, and regardless, there are two more empty spaces in your WHD utopia.

What exactly did you expect them to say about their closing? That after 20 years they realized what they dreamed never quite materialized as they expected?

Make sure to park across the street from Fort on the River tomorrow. If they get creeped out just tell them you're doing a statistical analysis of their business from out front. Report back to us with your findings.

I don't believe "they" will be around to notice. I believe their bags already have been packed and given their exit interviews.

Oh, ok. So when's the party?

Hunky, I see in the article they mention "pursuing other interests" without including mention of what, when, or where.

I suppose it could be top-secret ideas he has...such as the foolishness he envisioned happening in WHD 20 years ago.

Again, the truth is becoming more difficult to suppress.

You seem like a good time.

The grace of the leaving is irrelevant, Upso. What matter is the leaving itself.

Your rant shows (or betrays) that you know what's going on around here. Toledo's rust is a symbol of decay, complacency and doing less with less. Running an art gallery around here is simply an act of ego, fueled by excessive cash. Cash runs out, for obvious reasons. And so it has.

In a vibrant economy, these things just never come up. But we don't have that. That was always my point. And following logically from the point, there are a host of other things that a lack of a vibrant economy says concretely that you must not do. You must not rebuild a dead downtown. You must not emphasize economic development. You must not use the government to invoke massive property unfairness. Yadda yadda... for all the stuff I've said here for a decade. It's all in the archives.

Upso, I'll hold 6th_Bore's arms while you beat the shit out of him, how's that?

AC, trust me if I didn't want the law involved, I'd enjoy the opportunity to respond to any attempt at you harming me. :)

I know it's difficult for you, but please somewhat remain on topic here. There are a couple political forums here at TT for your trolling and other childish behavior.

Upso, why it's closing isn't relevant. What is easily concluded from the article is more empty commercial space. Nothing more, nothing less. I fully expect most people (especially fools who have believed the WHD fairy tale for 20 years) to avoid using "business was lousy" among their reasons for closing the gallery.

AC, you have been a troll here since day 1, but I'll waste more of my time replying to you. Is Upso the big-bad wolf of Toledo Talk now? He is a poster here nothing more or less to me. Him using the F word doesn't make any difference to the fact that two more downtown businesses have closed.

Since our taxes have helped pay for many of this downtown/WHD bullshit to be created, and even more taxes are being wasted via subsidizing obvious money-losing ventures, every resident in the county has a "vested stake" what happens downtown.

Moving along, Upso you may want to pass along a reminder to Mr. Hillenbrand to pay his owed property taxes. It seems he hasn't made a payment for 18 N. St Clair since Jan 31, 2012.

I won't post his personal address here, but he's also approximately 3k behind at his personal residence in Old Orchard to be placed on the county's DELINQUENT PAYMENT PLAN. It seems Mr. Hillenbrand is sort of a double-dipping property tax deadbeat.

So, before Mr. Hillenbrand moves along for his "First vacation in 8 years" and pursues "other artistic interests" he should pay his owed property taxes at the "little glowing oasis" and his personal residence.

Toledo has plenty of potholes to repair. That's more important than any art gallery in a deadzone.

Apparently not paying your property taxes is all part of this new Toledo paradigm of business success. I'll have to make a note of that, along with: closing for entire seasons; reducing hours of operation during the week; not having customers in the store; taking customers away from other businesses while calling it "synergy"; etc. LOL!

How about a new wealth-producing business actually opening downtown? Anyone?

No grocery store rumors please...I'm talking about real jobs.

Anyway, it sure seems strange that The Blade devoted so many words on the closing and the gallery itself, yet in all that verbiage there wasn't any mention of it being in arrears on the property taxes. I'll have to look again, and if I'm right, I'll then give the reporter a phone call and ask politely why such a salient fact didn't make it to print.

Virtual Technologies Group - 19 N. Erie St. will be leaving Toledo very soon. The city of Maumee awarded them a $40,000 grant, so they will move to Arrowhead Park. They also own an office furniture store next door to 19 N. Erie, but I'm not sure if that's going to Maumee as well. That's about 20 employees that will take their lunch money to Maumee eateries.

6th, an art gallery lasted 20 years. What's your barometer of success for an art gallery? At what point, in your book, can they finally say "we did it, we succeeded!" Seriously, when they opened, Kurt Cobain still had half his hits to record... a LOT has happened since then.

Quite a bit of new downtown dust biting material for this thread to absorb in a single day.

- An art gallery owned by a tax deadbeat.

- A bar that was open less than 2 months.

- A tech company with a couple dozen employees moving to the suburbs.

http://maumee.toledonewsnow.com/news/business/150001-toledo-business-moving-maumee

Johio said: a LOT has happened since then

Yes, a lot of economic collapse for the Toledo area. You're absolutely right about that.

I'd say that since ART hasn't gone out of fashion, the mark of success of an art gallery is twofold:

1. It continues to exist while its proponents are obviously healthy and active in the game.

2. It pays its bills. You know, like property taxes.

Looks like this particular gallery failed on these two basic metrics.

Johio, I'm still trying to determine if it was a "fucking art gallery" or just an art gallery.

I'm starting to think that the only difference between 6th_Bore and Heath Ledger's Joker at this point is the scope of what they want to see burn... downtown Toledo vs. the world. And maybe the quality of the make-up job.

Must admit I never read this thread. But it amazes me how it never goes away :) Some night when I feel like reading a novella, I'll brew a nice pot of coffee and start from post 1 till I finish or have to sleep.

I am quite familiar with 20 North and its history.

Eric Hillenbrand and his partner Jim Zaleski were fix'er upper guys in the early 90's. They bought the 20 North location for pennies. Took two years to get the thing up and safe for habitation. Major renovations. It was a dump.

Eric had a very, very serious drinking problem that led to DUI convictions. His driving license was revoked in the mid 90's. His elderly mom would drive him around to social events.

Eric was always impeccably dressed and presented himself as a bit of a Gatsby like character around town. If you were "in the scene" 1994-2001 you would find the drunken Eric at his art openings and other social events.

Jim and Eric continued to do repair jobs by day well into the late 90's. Unfortunately both were in serious financial trouble by 1999 and Eric consumption issues caused the relationship to fray. Jim and Eric would split early in the new century and Jim got a money guy to back the creation of Diva. Diva was Jim's dream of an upscale, big city experience in Toledo. He held several art events using Leslie Adams connections within the art community.

Divas eventually failed. Not sure what happen to Jim since then.

20 North was never profitable (AFAIK) and was used by Eric as a way to stay relevant within the Toledo social scene.

The vacation quote by Eric is hilarious. Everyday is vacation day for Eric.

read this in the blade yesterday: http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2013/05/19/Marketing-ad-firm-traces-growth-in-downtown-Toledo.html

how on earth can a business be growing in downtown? this makes no sense

Here are pictures that I took of the Fort Bar and Grill ("Fort on the River") on Sunday, May 19th, 2013:

http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/ToledoTroublemaker/library/

Bar signs are still in the side windows of the Water Street floor level. I'd have to say that the inside looks beautiful, as much of Fort Industry Square is. The Superior Street inner double doors themselves are works of art.

But inside all you can really see are stools and tables, nothing else. These twits really collapsed in 6 weeks? That's got to be a new record for that sort of investment.

Naturally, during this sojourn, I was accosted by a bicycling bum who wanted money. Naturally, I refused; insofar as I have volition in this, I don't support the drugs and alcohol trades, since that's largely where your money goes when you give it to bums on the street.

No, Brainswell (good name, BTW). I stopped by some hyped yet failed outlet on the way home, enjoying the fresh air, as I collected data on our continued economic failures. Economic development is a scam. And I'm going to keep rubbing your noses in it. Bad dog!

Do you seriously think that you can get away with demonizing the collection of data and seeking of personal education? Sad. Truly sad. Your brain must be swelling indeed, which is a serious medical condition.

I leave you currently with the knowledge that I hope you enjoyed your grilled burgers for now, since the City of Toledo is going to come after your little white picket fence for more property taxes to support the economic development scam. Your lifestyle is an endangered species.

Lots of small businesses, and in particular family-run restaurants, fail, because the people who dreamed of owning and running such simply don't have a grasp of business and finance. That's perfectly natural. That, however, is NOT an indicator that an area (downtown) is unworkable for business. If some restaurants in the Secor destruction zone shut their doors right now, does that mean the area sucks and is economically un-viable? Does it mean those owners suck at running their restaurants?

Or maybe they don't see surviving the upcoming construction that is going to tear that place apart.

Guest Zero: