Another downtown watering hole bites the dust...Easy Street Bar.

The grace of the leaving is irrelevant, Upso. What matter is the leaving itself.

Your rant shows (or betrays) that you know what's going on around here. Toledo's rust is a symbol of decay, complacency and doing less with less. Running an art gallery around here is simply an act of ego, fueled by excessive cash. Cash runs out, for obvious reasons. And so it has.

In a vibrant economy, these things just never come up. But we don't have that. That was always my point. And following logically from the point, there are a host of other things that a lack of a vibrant economy says concretely that you must not do. You must not rebuild a dead downtown. You must not emphasize economic development. You must not use the government to invoke massive property unfairness. Yadda yadda... for all the stuff I've said here for a decade. It's all in the archives.

Upso, I'll hold 6th_Bore's arms while you beat the shit out of him, how's that?

AC, trust me if I didn't want the law involved, I'd enjoy the opportunity to respond to any attempt at you harming me. :)

I know it's difficult for you, but please somewhat remain on topic here. There are a couple political forums here at TT for your trolling and other childish behavior.

Upso, why it's closing isn't relevant. What is easily concluded from the article is more empty commercial space. Nothing more, nothing less. I fully expect most people (especially fools who have believed the WHD fairy tale for 20 years) to avoid using "business was lousy" among their reasons for closing the gallery.

AC, you have been a troll here since day 1, but I'll waste more of my time replying to you. Is Upso the big-bad wolf of Toledo Talk now? He is a poster here nothing more or less to me. Him using the F word doesn't make any difference to the fact that two more downtown businesses have closed.

Since our taxes have helped pay for many of this downtown/WHD bullshit to be created, and even more taxes are being wasted via subsidizing obvious money-losing ventures, every resident in the county has a "vested stake" what happens downtown.

Moving along, Upso you may want to pass along a reminder to Mr. Hillenbrand to pay his owed property taxes. It seems he hasn't made a payment for 18 N. St Clair since Jan 31, 2012.

I won't post his personal address here, but he's also approximately 3k behind at his personal residence in Old Orchard to be placed on the county's DELINQUENT PAYMENT PLAN. It seems Mr. Hillenbrand is sort of a double-dipping property tax deadbeat.

So, before Mr. Hillenbrand moves along for his "First vacation in 8 years" and pursues "other artistic interests" he should pay his owed property taxes at the "little glowing oasis" and his personal residence.

Toledo has plenty of potholes to repair. That's more important than any art gallery in a deadzone.

Apparently not paying your property taxes is all part of this new Toledo paradigm of business success. I'll have to make a note of that, along with: closing for entire seasons; reducing hours of operation during the week; not having customers in the store; taking customers away from other businesses while calling it "synergy"; etc. LOL!

How about a new wealth-producing business actually opening downtown? Anyone?

No grocery store rumors please...I'm talking about real jobs.

Anyway, it sure seems strange that The Blade devoted so many words on the closing and the gallery itself, yet in all that verbiage there wasn't any mention of it being in arrears on the property taxes. I'll have to look again, and if I'm right, I'll then give the reporter a phone call and ask politely why such a salient fact didn't make it to print.

Virtual Technologies Group - 19 N. Erie St. will be leaving Toledo very soon. The city of Maumee awarded them a $40,000 grant, so they will move to Arrowhead Park. They also own an office furniture store next door to 19 N. Erie, but I'm not sure if that's going to Maumee as well. That's about 20 employees that will take their lunch money to Maumee eateries.

6th, an art gallery lasted 20 years. What's your barometer of success for an art gallery? At what point, in your book, can they finally say "we did it, we succeeded!" Seriously, when they opened, Kurt Cobain still had half his hits to record... a LOT has happened since then.

Quite a bit of new downtown dust biting material for this thread to absorb in a single day.

- An art gallery owned by a tax deadbeat.

- A bar that was open less than 2 months.

- A tech company with a couple dozen employees moving to the suburbs.

http://maumee.toledonewsnow.com/news/business/150001-toledo-business-moving-maumee

Johio said: a LOT has happened since then

Yes, a lot of economic collapse for the Toledo area. You're absolutely right about that.

I'd say that since ART hasn't gone out of fashion, the mark of success of an art gallery is twofold:

1. It continues to exist while its proponents are obviously healthy and active in the game.

2. It pays its bills. You know, like property taxes.

Looks like this particular gallery failed on these two basic metrics.

Johio, I'm still trying to determine if it was a "fucking art gallery" or just an art gallery.

I'm starting to think that the only difference between 6th_Bore and Heath Ledger's Joker at this point is the scope of what they want to see burn... downtown Toledo vs. the world. And maybe the quality of the make-up job.

Must admit I never read this thread. But it amazes me how it never goes away :) Some night when I feel like reading a novella, I'll brew a nice pot of coffee and start from post 1 till I finish or have to sleep.

I am quite familiar with 20 North and its history.

Eric Hillenbrand and his partner Jim Zaleski were fix'er upper guys in the early 90's. They bought the 20 North location for pennies. Took two years to get the thing up and safe for habitation. Major renovations. It was a dump.

Eric had a very, very serious drinking problem that led to DUI convictions. His driving license was revoked in the mid 90's. His elderly mom would drive him around to social events.

Eric was always impeccably dressed and presented himself as a bit of a Gatsby like character around town. If you were "in the scene" 1994-2001 you would find the drunken Eric at his art openings and other social events.

Jim and Eric continued to do repair jobs by day well into the late 90's. Unfortunately both were in serious financial trouble by 1999 and Eric consumption issues caused the relationship to fray. Jim and Eric would split early in the new century and Jim got a money guy to back the creation of Diva. Diva was Jim's dream of an upscale, big city experience in Toledo. He held several art events using Leslie Adams connections within the art community.

Divas eventually failed. Not sure what happen to Jim since then.

20 North was never profitable (AFAIK) and was used by Eric as a way to stay relevant within the Toledo social scene.

The vacation quote by Eric is hilarious. Everyday is vacation day for Eric.

Here are pictures that I took of the Fort Bar and Grill ("Fort on the River") on Sunday, May 19th, 2013:

http://s1364.photobucket.com/user/ToledoTroublemaker/library/

Bar signs are still in the side windows of the Water Street floor level. I'd have to say that the inside looks beautiful, as much of Fort Industry Square is. The Superior Street inner double doors themselves are works of art.

But inside all you can really see are stools and tables, nothing else. These twits really collapsed in 6 weeks? That's got to be a new record for that sort of investment.

Naturally, during this sojourn, I was accosted by a bicycling bum who wanted money. Naturally, I refused; insofar as I have volition in this, I don't support the drugs and alcohol trades, since that's largely where your money goes when you give it to bums on the street.

No, Brainswell (good name, BTW). I stopped by some hyped yet failed outlet on the way home, enjoying the fresh air, as I collected data on our continued economic failures. Economic development is a scam. And I'm going to keep rubbing your noses in it. Bad dog!

Do you seriously think that you can get away with demonizing the collection of data and seeking of personal education? Sad. Truly sad. Your brain must be swelling indeed, which is a serious medical condition.

I leave you currently with the knowledge that I hope you enjoyed your grilled burgers for now, since the City of Toledo is going to come after your little white picket fence for more property taxes to support the economic development scam. Your lifestyle is an endangered species.

Lots of small businesses, and in particular family-run restaurants, fail, because the people who dreamed of owning and running such simply don't have a grasp of business and finance. That's perfectly natural. That, however, is NOT an indicator that an area (downtown) is unworkable for business. If some restaurants in the Secor destruction zone shut their doors right now, does that mean the area sucks and is economically un-viable? Does it mean those owners suck at running their restaurants?

Or maybe they don't see surviving the upcoming construction that is going to tear that place apart.

GZ - Why do you assume I support the "economic development scam" merely because I disagree with the way that you assess success and failure? You don't know how I voted last year.

Please remind me how the Fort Bar and Grill is connected with your so called "economic development scam." I do not recall hearing any involvement of the city with the business. Do you have information that we should be aware of?

From The Blade, 5/18/2013: 'Little glowing oasis' to go dark; 20 North Gallery closes Friday

From the article: Twenty years ago he [Eric Hillenbrand ] bought a building at 20 North St. Clair St. in an area that was bereft of energy and people.

On December 30, 1992 Eric put $30,000 on the Come Line and rolled the bones.

On February 13, 2004 Eric decided to pass the dice and cash it all in. He walked away with $425,000 in his kick, and that's just the real estate.

The data comes from the Areis online site.

I didn't see what you are looking at Jack, but I do know that the 2004 period was the time that Hillenbrand/Zaleski was dissolving. That put an extra pinch on both partners.

Knowing Eric and Jim, and knowing their finances and investments since the 90s, I honestly don't think that Eric put $425,000 in his pocket over this at any point.

Knowing Eric and Jim, and knowing their finances and investments since the 90s, I honestly don't think that Eric put $425,000 in his pocket over this at any point.

I was looking at real estate transfers.

No, he wouldn't have stuffed $400 grand in his pocket, but with that kind of money floating around he'd have made something.

As a creditor at the time, I would guess it was on paper if profit existed. Great guys, don't get me wrong.

But they were really extended. Especially after they took on the Secor Bldg and Diva.

I'll stop there. :)

Like I said, great guys.

More like:

OK. That's only because the Bombay Bicycle Club closed years ago.

Did you see the van he was riding in?

I don't think that you should keep giving him rides, AC.
Let him walk.

It's not my van and I wouldn't give any of you creeps a ride anyhow.

It is your van, and I'd walk before I'd ride in that rolling safety violation you've been seen in all over town.

Not my van, I already have a fine vehicle by an American automaker that is well-maintained. Besides, you can't walk anywhere, maddie, because you'd get cited for public intoxication, day or night.

"I already have a fine vehicle by an American automaker that is well-maintained."

I'm also a fan of the Honda Accord.

AC tittered: That, however, is NOT an indicator that an area (downtown) is unworkable for business.

No AC, what does indicate an area that's unworkable for business is an area plagued by empty buildings. When I stood in the large green space by the now defunct Fort-by-the-River bar, I was within spittin' distance of:

1. A totally empty skyscraper (the Hytower).
2. A line of boarded up retail locations lining the parking garage attached to the empty skyscraper.
3. A totally empty hotel (Hotel Seagate).
4. A totally empty ex-steam plant.

And oh heck, let's add:

5. A mostly empty Fort Not-So-Industry Square.

Get it yet, AC? Stand in that area and you're surrounded by towering abandonments. You're all too close to the matter. You've seen Toledo getting more and more boarded up, and it seems normal to you. But it's devastating. And we've nowhere near taken the suitable radical measures to adapt to it (for instance, we still have this ruinously expensive Liberal-Union government).

Brainswell said: Do you have information that we should be aware of?

Yes, and I keep telling it to you, but you keep rejecting it: White people and their money, are leaving Toledo. Therefore, if you want a new business to be a success (as Costco knows well), you either have to open your business where the Whites and the money have gone, or you need succulent access to the big juicy government tit. In the former situation, that means you open your business in Maumee, Perrysburg, Sylvania, Bedford, etc. In the latter case, you open your so-called business in a building without any property taxes (aka the Warehouse District or Fart Industry Square), even one that's perennially behind on taxes (aka the new paradigm).

This isn't even opinion. It's demographics. It's documented fact. I either say it or imply it over and over and over, and yet, you people continue to pretend that I didn't say anything.

Madjack: _On December 30, 1992 Eric put $30,000 on the Come Line and rolled the bones. On February 13, 2004 Eric decided to pass the dice and cash it all in. He walked away with $425,000 in his kick, and that's just the real estate.

The data comes from the Areis online site._

Also from the AREIS site is information that bones roller Eric nowadays owes more than 5k of unpaid property taxes.

It may be time for him to head to the casino, put whatever he has left in his pockets and attempt to convert a 4th & 29 his own 20 yard line.

From 6th_Floor: Also from the AREIS site is information that bones roller Eric nowadays owes more than 5k of unpaid property taxes.

Which he may well owe, or not as the case may be. As screwed up as the local IRS is I think there's every chance in the world he doesn't owe a dime.

Regardless of that, how many times are you going to scrounge up a lousy five grand to get a return of a couple hundred thou? For that kind of bread I'd max out every credit card I could get my hands on! Shoot, I'd even max out AC's credit card for that kind of dinero.

JustRead may know something about the situation that I don't or that isn't common knowledge, but it's been my own experience that when large amounts of long green start floating around some of it's going to stick to the owner's pocket. The inside of the pocket.

Not really Jack. Just that they were reinvesting pretty heavily, with great intentions, but got in kind of deep with a couple of investments that required massive influxes of cash.

One of those investments was the incubator for the Toledo School of the Arts, the Secor Building. The other was an incubator for the growth of the talents of wonderful local chef Erika Rapp, Diva Restaurant.

Both were very cash hungry investments, but provided work for some folks for a while, and were positive attributes for the community. During that time period, I was a tenant, a vendor, a creditor, a customer and a friend. I liked those guys a lot. They both had a vision of what Toledo could be, based on what they saw on their travels and their love of Toledo, art, food, and culture.

I would think that they did ok on the One South St. Clair sale following the ballpark construction, but again... I don't see profits being taken in any substantial way based on the activity that I was seeing in other properties.
Who knows.

hey dude,

Can you get financed? I have a property to sell in an area that requires the touch of a young visionary such as yourself.

UPSO said: thanks for the reminder that you're a racist

There's a profound difference between recognizing racial realities and advocating them. The exact difference exists between watching and cheering, or observing and hoping.

Demographics and crime statistics and welfare statistics aren't racist. It's high time you Liberals stopped lying to yourselves. :^)

most epic first post award goes to ONEVillageIsAwesome

ONE idiot said: You're the old guard of Toledo and you have left a huge mess for us young folks to clean up.

Hardly. I'm Gen-X. The old guard of Toledo is the Boomer generation, swaddled in their unions and government jobs and old professional positions whose bosses are counting down the days when they can de-budget their positions.

ONE idiot continued: Shut up and get out of our way so we can clean up the messes that your generation has left behind.

I don't see the "shutting up" thing happening. And how am I in your way? Outline PRECISELY how I'm inhibiting you from using your own skills and your own capital to achieve sustainable goals. Let's get details, if you've the minerals for it (which is doubtful, you being so full of sound and fury).

ONE idiot blotted: Just because some businesses fail in downtown and the warehouse district does not automatically mean that downtown and the warehouse district are unviable.

My sampling of empty properties (using details that you're apparently allergic to) shows the current reality agrees with me about unviability. There's a lot of empty, crumbling buildings in the downtown. I could take you by your hand (since you're not old enough to cross streets on your own) and show you a building in the downtown that has a 6-8 foot tree growing out of the side of the bricks on its top story. Once you get over the dazzle of paint, you see the crumbling beneath. I've much admired (during my alleged creepy stalking activities) the paint slopped over the rotting metal facades on Steingraber's beloved (and now defunct) craft shop on S St Clair St.

Walk the downtown with an engineer's eye, then return to this forum and tell us what honesty and education tell you. There's only one conclusion: It's decaying and public subsidy is only heavily distorting that collapse.

Do certain people on this thread have jobs ??? That's a lot of typing, time and effort to keep repeating yourself.

An "ignore user" option would be AWESOME.

On topic: ONEVillage - I work downtown, and I'd love to see what you're doing here sometime. Let me know if you'd like to grab lunch sometime. Always interested in meeting new people who are into the city.

"jr, can we get a "hide" function like Facebook?"

I'm Facebook illiterate, so I don't know what the "hide" function does. Is it the same thing as the "ignore user" option mentioned by endcycle?

Yes. I understand that a forum like this isn't set up for that - just wishful thinking on my part.

yeah, essentially that exact thing.

So anyways, I noticed on my way to the farmers market this weekend a building on south Huron near those new apartments (swan creek?) that has had substantial work done and is a major, at least street level improvement. Not sure what it is, looks residential but unsure. Any idea upso? Your neck of the woods.

I've seen that work and was curious too, Nolan. It looks like a loft apartment with retail at ground level to me.

So you would just ignore him, if what he says is true your ignoring truth. Isn't that just going to bite you in the end? reminds me of the commercial where the guy is on fire and his coworker points it out to him but the guy just ignores him and continues on with his work. I'm not saying that the negativity and the in your face way that 6th points it out or the consistent stabs about it with madjack aren't annoying, but to just ignore it kinda seems silly. To those making what they are doing by observing the business's downtown is somehow creepy or against the law, you again are vilifying what they are doing instead of listening to what they are saying. You don't like what they are reporting so you beat up on them for reporting it?

So, I've been talking to the president of the Phoenix Earth Foods Co-op (who is a friend of mine) and moving to the downtown area is something that they are apparently seriously considering right now and are putting out feelers for fundraisers to raise the capital needed to move.

It just seemed so big though. Would love to see inside. They even put down some turf out front

"So, I've been talking to the president of the Phoenix Earth Foods Co-op (who is a friend of mine) and moving to the downtown area is something that they are apparently seriously considering right now and are putting out feelers for fundraisers to raise the capital needed to move."

That's interesting......there is no doubt they need to get out of their current location.

Any idea what kind of space they'd be after? I know nothing about them, not sure if we're talking about a 5,000sf office/storefront, or a 20,000sf warehousing space, or what.

glad to hear they are considering a move. they'll need to find a building with reasonable parking if possible.

as for the building on huron in question... any idea what address we're talking about? i don't want to speak about the wrong space.

Yeah, they need a space that is the same size or larger than what they have now. They need at least 2 dozen parking spaces. They need the space to be up to or close to code for a grocery store.

Their current location is only slightly larger than a big carryout and they only have 2 real rows of short aisles and the parking leaves a bit to be desired as far as ease of accessibility.

I've already suggested the ESM, as have several other people and it is one of the locations they may be considering.

The old Al Peake on Huron could be a good candidate.

I think the Erie Street Market would be a fantastic location because of it's proximity to the Farmer's Market which is expanding each year. It also has great parking and is walking distance from the Warehouse District and only a short drive from the OWE and ONE Village which encompasses quite a bit of their existing customer base.

By them getting closer to downtown, they can also get in more foot traffic from downtown residents without transportation. Sean, the president of Phoenix, was saying that he would like to see the co-op more viably located to poorer people in the downtown area who didn't have access to whole, healthy foods.

Goodness knows that Seaway doesn't really have much in the range of whole, healthy foods and their prices on generic brands is the same or higher than the prices on name brands at other stores.

Endcycle - I'd love to get together. I'm usually free during the middle of the week early in the month. Our mid-months get busy because we are doing limited service in the form of formal events on a monthly basis to help restore our historical property to its former glory and raise capital.

OVA,

Welcome to TT. I do have a few questions for you since you've taken so much time to attack me. Of course I enjoy reading the piss and vinegar from a different source, tho.

A few things about me. What happened here beyond 20 or more years ago wouldn't have nary a trace of my adult footprints. I live in Toledo...and yes technically in the inner-city, so I do have plenty of experience. Certainly more than some punk talking smack fresh off the bus.

How long have you been in Toledo? Where did you live before moving here?

Also, since you won't mention it now, will you at least mention your business location and name after it's open?

LC: So you would just ignore him, if what he says is true your ignoring truth.

LC, the last thing these downtown homers want is the truth. That's exactly what fuels my desire to observe their failures. They say they are going to ignore certain people, but yet they are repeatedly returning to this same thread.

Now we have some new piss & vinegar-filled, young punk in here talking trash about Vistula...the very same neighborhood which received much attention prior to downtown & WHD becoming the focus. Of course the young punk gets a pass for not knowing that, since he hasn't been in Toledo and/or alive long enough to know.

Not so long ago, Summit Street from Cherry heading east toward the 280 bridge was lined with bars, restaurants, and various other businesses. Now, because there are so many dollars to spend, downtown has improved and Vistula looks like somebody dropped a bomb on it. I would bet there is more vacant square footage than occupied along that stretch of Summit.

I think it's 123 S. Huron, but that's a guess from AREIS. It's a large warehouse that is actually connected to the swan creek apartments but a building than is midway into the lot

Oh, and don't get me wrong, I'm very touchy about people not paying their property taxes and that's one of the reasons the schools suck around here. But when I hear about a restaurant that isn't paying it's taxes I get concerned before I get suspiscious. I don't immediately hop on the fail-train. There could be multiple reasons up to and including bad management and corruption.

I would recommend eating at Table Forty4 before posting trash-talk about them. Judge their food and service for yourself. Eat their a second time and you can judge their consistency too. If you really don't want to eat at T44, then there is The Registry Bistro, which is fairly new and has quite a snappy website and good looking menu and nice interior layout. They seem to have made quite a lovely addition to downtown.

For me, I think it's pretty sad that there is such negativity that is so completely closed to anything positive about Toledo that is so loud on the internet. This threads smack talk about Table Forty4 could quite possibly account for some of it's loss in business. Look at me, I just dropped in off of the internet turnip truck onto this website and how did get here? Google searching sites talking about restaurants in Toledo.

great point.

"Our basic business plan is mid-range priced locavore fine dining and tea room with formal Victorian living history flare in a large historic mansion nearby downtown. We are not planning on being open until May of 2014 as we are being careful with the restoration to make sure everything is period and our kitchens are up to code and capable of preparing Victorian recipes."

I have absolutely no idea what this means, but I am incredibly interested.

You lost me at: "I have been here since 2009. Your schools suck because people don't pay their property taxes."

What are the capital raising sessions, bake sales?

57% of Lucas County Public Schools budget comes from property taxes. 48% of the public library budget comes out of property taxes. We pay our taxes on time becayuse we want good schools and a good library. Toledo isn't alone in being set up that way either. Most cities and towns are set up to fund the schools and luibraries largely through property tax.

Most cities and towns don't have our school board. :)

Anyway... I am not a hater. Like I've indicated earlier in the thread, I love guys with artistic and cultural vision who sacrifice making money for an artistic dream.

I love good restaurants and hope for another. And I mourn for the good ones with decent business plans that have still failed.
Especially Diva. But that closed before 2009, so you may not be aware of it.

Good luck.

You're right about that justread. The Libbey High demolition was a tragedy of unimaginable proprotions. Seems like our school board has lost all sense of reason quite some time ago (long before I moved here). Maybe we should drag someone out of the woodwork to run for the super's position or Toledo's equivalent of it and maybe work to fix some of the craziness that passes for operating a school system around here.

Toledo on the whole needs more creative, out-of-the-box thinkers young and old alike. By out-of-the-box, I don't mean out of one and into another either. We need some real creativity to get us out of the mess we are in. Both in business and government. That's why I'm voting Sean Nestor for City Council. Maybe some new blood can get things flowing on the city level again.

If you liked Diva (which you should have! :)) the chef (Erika) is now the co-owner of Registry Bistro. EASILY the best restaurant in NW Ohio. Killer menu and wine list, and their bartenders know how to make excellent cocktails. And! It's downtown. And! Affordable. Oh and: doing great business every day they're open. Of course, that's shocking since everything downtown is supposed to fail.

cool- if i can figure out how to message someone on this forum (this software is weird) I'll drop you a line.

BTW: historical food? Heck yeah. That's got some interest from me already.

IDinspired said: I understand that a forum like this isn't set up for that - just wishful thinking on my part.

It's more than wishful thinking, it's delusional thinking. People respond to what I say not because they see my words, it's because they know full well that other people see my words. That one-village idiot essentially said so.

I've had that sort of thing lobbed at me on other forums, particularly forums with 'ignore' features, and you know what happened? Yep: The complainers kept responding to me. They can't ignore me, since then I'd continue to talk without challenge, spreading the disease of real knowledge that all propagandists oppose.

And as it stands, you can just ignore me now; it's not like it's hard to just skip over text visually. Or skip over 6th_Floor. Or UPSO, or your mother when she's pouring your morning egg nog. But you won't... because you can't take the risk that my words stand unchallenged (or what passes for challenge amongst the delusional set of folks). (And you shouldn't ignore your mother either, or she'll stop feeding you.)

ONE idiot said: Perhaps they were driving by intending to eat there but the creepy evil Wil Wheaton on a bike leering in taking pictures may not be what that person wished to experience during their dining outing.

I don't ride a bike downtown. I drive a car. And I'm well enough dressed.

The reality here that you're avoiding saying is that there's another form of street life that drives people away. It rhymes with "Blacks".

But hey, enough reality for now. I'll take credit from your assertions for single-handedly destroying retail activity downtown. I did it. Me, GuestZero. So, I'll gladly setup a Paypal account for receiving payments from downtown retail owners for outright bribes to stay away. I'm cheap; I'll only need $10000 or so in total donations each year to avoid the downtown entirely that year. As taxes go, that's a deal. And then customers will flood back into Table 44 like it was 2006 again. Really, I should charge more, but I'm not greedy. (Greed is the problem of your class of person, ONE idiot.)

Always a good reminder. I'm overdue at Registry.

ONE idiot said: I would recommend eating at Table Forty4 before posting trash-talk about them. Judge their food and service for yourself.

Why would I need to? Most of Toledo has already judged, either directly (by staying away due to disdain) or indirectly (by staying away because they're struggling to pay bills). I was just noting its failure. Oh wait, I forgot, Toledoans check here a lot to see my views on restaurants. GuestZero the creepy restaurant slayer. Surely there's some municipal law[*] that would allow me to be prosecuted for my terrible effect on the local economy.

[*] Oh shit, there's that First Amendment thing. Drat! Fucking teabaggers!

I looked at The Registry's website and menu and they look fantastic, I'm definitely going to give them a try. Really nice looking interior!

I'm going to give Table Forty4 a shot myself before I judge them, but thier website is suspended and there have been no facebook updates since 2011.

Again, I am an outsider here, but it looks to me like the owners of Table Forty4 have just given up...which is on them, not downtown business development and the viability of downtown ion general. You can conflate the two all you want, Guest Zero, but that still doesn't mean they are related.

It looks like they haven't paid their taxes since their business turned down a couple years ago. So, they're struggling. Perhaps they'll close and it will be unfortunate if they do. Not somethign to celebrate. The fact that they're still trying to hang on says something, if nothing more than for stoicism which should impress you phony modern conservatives cause you guys beat your head against so many brick walls repeatedly, it's no wonder you have brain damage.

In the restaurant world, there are three bridges you have to cross. The one year, the three year and the five year. The first year is the hardest to make it through, and most restaurants fail during the first three years. If you make it to the five year mark and are still turning a profit and your profits are on a noticable rise, then you're doing good. If you're just breaking even, then you're probably looking at what your business is going to look like for the long-run without significant changes. Many people just start slacking off once they're breaking even. They relax instead of buckling down and trying harder. That's a mistake that many many many many restauranteurs make and it signals the five year failure of many food service establishments.

I went to Table Forty Four last summer before a Mud Hens game during one of my trips to Toledo. It was good. Nothing special in my mind, but good. There are some outstanding places downtown, but I just don't consider them in that category.

I do have a big problem with them not paying taxes, though. The fact that they reap the benefits of taxes (especially with them being a commercial business), don't pay, and aren't punished by the appropriate municipality really bothers me.

Table44 had the potential to do some very cool stuff, but generally suffered from a boring menu and mediocre service. A shame, too - very cool location and atmosphere otherwise. The food is... fine.

The real surprise for me was the newly renovated Durty Bird - their food is kind of great. Interesting, fun menu, great flavors, and very good specials. Highly recommend checking them out too.

From ONEVillageIsAwesome: Again, I am an outsider here, but it looks to me like the owners of Table Forty4 have just given up...

You know, it does appear that the owners may be throwing in the proverbial towel. Look up Table Forty4 on Google maps and read a few of the comments, and by that I mean the negative comments. The place showed lousy service, and that's something that will put you out of business faster than the IRS. Well, maybe not faster, but arguably much more painfully. Customers may come in, but they won't be back. A few may leave without ordering.

From ONEVillageIsAwesome: We pay our taxes on time becayuse [because - MJ] we want good schools and a good library.

Just exactly what 'we' are you talking about? If this is you and your Significant Other, that's one thing. If you're referring to the general public, that's something entirely different - in more ways than one.

People don't pay property tax because they want a better infrastructure. They pay because they have no choice - if they want to keep their property. Otherwise the government will seize it and sell it for the tax debt.

From EndCycle: ...and their bartenders know how to make excellent cocktails.

I'm going to hold you to that, and we shall see.

I love the Durty bird! I think they have one of the best chicken chunks around town. I also enjoy the "Durty" Sauce!

ohhhh and I had a bloody mary there once and they guy that made it added a splash of Guinness and it was delicious!!!

_IDinspired said: I understand that a forum like this isn't set up for that - just wishful thinking on my part.

It's more than wishful thinking, it's delusional thinking. People respond to what I say not because they see my words, it's because they know full well that other people see my words._

I'll respond just this once, since you've called me out. I do skip over you. As I said, I've started reading the poster before the post because of your desire to spew your repetitive narrow minded thoughts over and over on nearly every topic and every thread. It must be nice to know everything about every topic and always be correct. It also must be sad to spend so much time and effort to tell everyone how wrong they are and how right you are.

I know I've stopped reading TT as much since you've felt the need to constantly enlighten all of us with your wisdom - I wonder how many others have done the same?

Feel free to respond (as we all know you can't help yourself), but I'll just continue with my delusional, wishful thinking.

Registry Bistro: The Greater Toledo Restaurant Aficionados Group is scheduled to be there Wed June 12th @ 7pm. All TT'ers are welcome to join. You can join the group here: https://www.facebook.com/events/335339523259224/

View a Virtual Tour of the Registy Bistro here: http://www.greatertoledovirtualtours.com/AA_BusinessDirectory/OhToledo/RegistryBistro_OhToledo_144NorthSuperiorSt/RegistryBistro_HRVT/_flash/RegistryBistro_HRVT_Pub_HRVT.html

Actually, given Toledo's history on tax foreclosures and the sheer volume of delinquent properties in the city, I'm not really worried about the city or county taking our place, the guy who lives behind us owes 37,000 in back property taxes on his dilapidated residential properties that he refuses to fix and we can't even beg the county to foreclose on him...we've tried. So, in essence we ( by that I mean my business partners and myself) pay our taxes because we are more interested in better infrastructure than fear of foreclosure.

We also reap the benefits of paying taxes so we really should, as a matter of civic responsibility, pay our taxes.

Registry Bisto: Greater Toledo Restaurant Aficionados Group link update: https://www.facebook.com/groups/GTRAG/

The lack of punishment on your neighbor is absurd. Would his house even fetch $37,000 on the market? That's probably why he's not paying. That, and knowing that he won't suffer any consequences from not paying.

With the amount of open lots in the Vistula area and the crummy/abandoned condition of many others, it would be a prime area for a "town center" redevelopment by an ambitious developer if Toledo had better population projections. That has been done to a lot of old cotton mills and other factory neighborhoods in the southeast.

He owns several properties, all of the blighted all of them uninhabitable and all of tax delinquent since the late 90's/early 2000's. None of his houses would get anywhere near what the tax delinquency on them is, and all of them were worth close to full market value when he acquired the properties. He is simply a lazy, crazy, property hoarder (like some people hoard houses till they are full of crap, he has multiple properties like that and some of them he has drug addicts and alcoholics squatting in for "security")

I'm on the board of the Vistula Historic Foundation and that is exactly one of the redevelopment ideas we have been floating around. One of the ideas is to convert that empty lot where the old elementary school at Lagrange and Erie used to be into a community garden park that has elements of community gardening interpsersed with the decorative elements of a public park. We are also actively seeking qualified end-users for the Lucas County Land Bank programme for new homeowners looking to live in a historic district and don't mind a "project house" which even our location is.

There are actually financial incentives to move into Vistula and grants available from United North and various other historical organizations for rehabbing a house in Vistula it's just that the only people who have been taking advantage of those programmes are folks who have converted beautiful Victorian housing stock into Section 8 housing and are currently getting market rate rents for even though it is sec8.

"jr, can we get a "hide" function like Facebook?"

Give it a test by clicking on a username.

If you prefer to have the "posted by" line disappear too, let me know.

I display the "posted by" line in case a user wants to un-hide someone's comments by clicking on the username.

And if you want to read the hidden comment, you could click on the quote characters at the right of the "posted by" line.

Perfect, jr. Thank you!

Thanks jr! Big improvement.