We'll see where this leads...just hope something develops before trail gets cold.
Comments ... #
My folks live right over there and everyone is getting a little freaked up about the uptick in burglaries over the last few years. We'll have to see how this pans out but I wouldn't be surprised if there was more to the story than a burglary gone wrong.
Agreed, AceFace: there seems to be more to this story than we are getting in the early news accounts.
I thought it was interesting that the homeowners were out of the country on a cruise. Makes me wonder if someone somehow knew about the trip, & expected the house to be empty and an easy target for robbery. And then things took a nasty turn once the would-be thieves discovered the young couple.
Sad story. I read that the young man's parents found them - how awful, no parent should have to experience that.
The above article states that the mother couldn't contact her son and called police who broke in the front door and found them dead in the kitchen/dining area.
This was personal....somebody knew these two.
What's with the mom calling the police worried about her son's safety? Doesn't sound like a robbery gone bad to me.....
"This was personal....somebody knew these two."
That's what I'm thinking too, RockChick. Why else would they kill them other than to get rid of witnesses who could easily identify them.
"What's with the mom calling the police worried about her son's safety? Doesn't sound like a robbery gone bad to me....."
Doesn't sound like a robbery or burglary gone wrong to me, either. The article left out a lot of information. How were they killed? Bags over the head is a very odd way to kill someone. When do police think this happened? How long was the mom looking for her son? Maybe the son was supposed to meet her somewhere and never showed up? Some people who miss just one day of work have colleagues come looking for them.
My first thought upon reading the story is professional burglars don't make the leap to double homocide when things go bad.
I saw this on the news just a few minutes ago and it just doesn't seem right. I agree with those of you who think this will turn out to be more than a burglary. My first guess is one of the kids was into something not so savory that went south. Judging by the Blade article, it seems like the boy knew some unsavory folks and the article mentioned that his mom 'heard some news' prior to calling police.
Ch. 24 at 11 said police now 'suspect victims knew attackers'...
via the Blade
"Mr. Cromer said Johnny “got into little mischievous stuff, like everybody else.”
Mr. Cromer said his nephew “may have had a little bit of trouble here and there, but Johnny, you know, he was trying to get his life together. Lisa was a good girl. They were both loved. Johnny was a big part of our life. He’s like our own son.”
Mr. Cromer said Johnny “got into little mischievous stuff, like everybody else.”
Asked if Mr. Clarke hung around with some bad people, Mr. Cromer said: “Who don’t? Mr. Verbosky and the Cromers urged anyone with information on the slayings to contact law-enforcement authorities."
The mental images this story conjures up is like a scene out of "Goodfellas".
From The Blade: Mr. Cromer said Johnny “got into little mischievous stuff, like everybody else.”
Asked if Mr. Clarke hung around with some bad people, Mr. Cromer said: “Who don’t?
Sounds like a killing over money. Possibly Johnny got into a dealer for a little too much and made threats.
I agree that burglary doesn't escalate into double first degree murder because something went wrong.
Fascinating what you can find out on the web. According to Toledo Municipal Court docket, both the elder and the junior Clarke men have criminal records. Dad has what they refer to in the movies as "a rap sheet a mile long." And junior was charged with aggravated robbery a few years back.
Doesn't sound like a random attack to me.
Just took another look at John Clarke's record. He was convicted on that aggravated robbery charge in 2007 and sentenced to three years in prison. He served about 14 months and then was paroled.
"Asked if Mr. Clarke hung around with some bad people, Mr. Cromer said: “Who don’t?"
Plenty of people.
I have been told of some disturbing details of this story, which I cannot post until confirmed by another. Brutal attack with alot more to the story.
Hoops, thank you for NOT posting unconfirmed, "disturbing details." Wish more folks were equally unwilling to repeat uncertainties and speculation whenever such sad stories arise.
Hoops, thank you for NOT posting unconfirmed, "disturbing details." Wish more folks were equally unwilling to repeat uncertainties and speculation whenever such sad stories arise.
I very much agree. Hope my name isn't dragged through this muck when I die.
Ugh. Not a good way to go. :(
The police should check the phone records of the parents. These parents know a whole lot more than they are telling. I bet you anything that one of the parents inadvertantly gave up Jrs. location when somebody called and wanted to know where he was!
Bottom line here is, the cops are not responsible for these kids' deaths. I think when the dust settles, it will be obvious that they were dead before the first 911 call was even made.
A lot more details will be forthcoming soon, as ius usually the case. IMO, I think we will see confirmed that the younger Clarke was in it deep. I also wonder how the girl fits into this puzzle...
I think that Jr. was the target, and she got hit as part of the payback.
It matters to the general public if this was a random home invasion that went horribly wrong. Who's next?
But obviously it makes no difference if either or both victims had unsavory aquaintances. Two murders committed in such a cruel and cold blooded manner means that these guys have to caught and caught quickly.
I still worry because of the unsolved home invasion in Medina Twp MI near Monroe last October in which the wife was sexually assaulted while the home was robbed. Children were involved. There have been no arrests.
There are some pretty ugly people around here that need to be locked up.
"It matters to the general public if this was a random home invasion that went horribly wrong. Who's next?"
A lot of people on edge about that. First reports from law enforcement indicated it was a robbery gone bad, which gives a lot of people, rightfully so, the jitters. Springfield Township had two levies on the ballot last year for police patrols that were defeated. I wonder if this crime is going to give trustees the confidence to try and put another levy on the ballot.
"Two murders committed in such a cruel and cold blooded manner means that these guys have to caught and caught quickly."
I agree. I think they will have an arrest by next week because of the public pressure to find the killer or killers.
Whoo boy renegade - I hope you're right.
IMHO I dont believe Springfield Twp will try another levy. There's a pretty staunch group of people in the Twp who still live in the mind set of the 60's-70's in regard to taxes. They are anti-taxes and anti-schools. They can crank up an opposition vote at the drop of a hat. The ranks are thinning though through age attrition, hence the passage of school levies. They refuse to recognize that the Twp has grown to a size of some small cities and what that means. I'd also bet money that the Village of Holland will not be asked to provide police services as long as the current Village police personnell roster stays at it is. There is a ton of dislike for certain Holland Police officers among the Twp residents.
Too bad the safety of township residents is compromised by politics and voters with agendas based on anything but the facts. As a resident of the Village and a former councilwoman I don't really favor a Village takeover of Twp policing. I think the Twp should fund its own force.
At this point, I'm not sure what to make of this. But just because a person or persons 'searched the home' doesn't make it a random robbery by someone who didn't know the victims.
I know neighbors very, very close to this house and they're extremely freaked but if it was a robbery 'gone bad' odds are bad guys moving on to a different neighborhood next time, if there's a next time.
"just because a person or persons 'searched the home' doesn't make it a random robbery by someone who didn't know the victims."
Defiantly not enough to make that conclusion but the police are working with a lot more information than can be conveniently printed in a newspaper article; point of entry, where the intruder was searching, whether the perpatrator brou
I'd be freaked. I live about 2-1/2 miles away and even that's too close for comfort. You usually don't kill on your first trip out. Whoever did this may well have done something like this before. Nobody is safe, anywhere from individuals that cold blooded. These people are monsters. I say plural because I find it hard to imagine one person subduing two healthy young people.
I dont think the Blade is printing eveything known about this case. And that's fine. If holding some information back makes solving this more likely then that's what has to be done. It's about as ugly as it gets.
If the criminals aren't caught, there will be another robbery. Count on it.
Just from reading about the case and the people involved, I still don't think this was a random robbery. Criminals searched the home, okay. Since the home wasn't looted, the criminals knew what they were looking for. Did they find it?
Also, I'm starting to wonder why the police didn't kick in the door the first time they visited the home.
I agree Holland, I just Googled the address, I'm 2.1 miles away. Way to close for comfort.
"I dont think the Blade is printing eveything known about this case."
I agree, Holland. I talked to a buddy of mine who is in law enforcement. He usually is laid back talking about crimes. When I asked him about this, he would only say there is a lot more to it, but he absolutely could not say a word to me about it. Not. A. Word.
bikerdude - I'm going to take that as a hopeful indication the police have some useful information and may get an apprehension soon. God, let's hope so.
Thanks, bikerdude. I hope the police catch these bad guys.
I'd think it be more likely the police aren't telling the paper everything they know than paper not printing things it knows.
I continue to believe the odds of this being a 'random robbery' turned violent are extremely long.
"I continue to believe the odds of this being a 'random robbery' turned violent are extremely long."
Me, too, McCaskey. Latest news update says LE is sticking by its initial belief that it was a robbery gone bad. I would really be surprised if that were the case.
Well, but, wait. The police themselves haven't actually said, "random" about this case, have they? I've heard "robbery gone bad," but not "random robbery gone bad." I can't imagine anyone really thinking this crime was random.
They did say they the robbers were looking for something specific.
just speculating, but 100 percs, or 250 oxys, that is something specific, isn't it ?
some kids nowdays deal in narcotics, and do not realize they are in the big leagues with that dope. It ain't pot, and it ain't hay.
someone his age could be dealing 100's of percs or oxys - but his having been to prison for a year, well....there are many 'not nice' people that he would have met in prison that are capable of supplying him with percs and oxys in the thousands.
And they want their money......
They are not nice when they do not get it.
Actually, my use of 'random' was to try to assauge fears among some on here there's a roving band of thugs driving around seeking to burglarize homes and terrorize the occupants within.
Sure, homes get robbed. But I find it impossible to believe there wasn't a series of events that unfolded beforehand that led to this particular crime being committed at this particular location to these particular individuals.
The obvious red flag is young Clarke's criminal background but there could also be a tie-in with the girls' parents being gone for two weeks and something of importance or great value contained within that house. The perps somehow knew homeowners were away and didn't know--or care--about young couple staying there.
In my very amateur-sleuth opinion, someone had a key to this house. When police responded to 911 call and looked about the place, no broken windows, glass, jimmyed-doors. All looked 'normal'. Clarke was on cell phone with friend around 11, according to mom's statement, and friend heard him say "Who are you? What do you want?" Nothing about hearing a noise or sound of break-in. He looked up and there they were; that's how I read that.
Couple things just 'oddball' about all this. 11 p.m. is not exactly the dead of night for a typical robbery. There are neighbors still up or just beginning to go to bed. There's still activity in a neighborhood like that at that time. Home invasions typically 2-3-4- a.m. or daylight hours with everyone working/at school. Unless of course perps didn't expect anyone to be home--like away on a two-week cruise--and had a key. Even then, 11 p.m. is taking risk with neighbors seeing something amiss, an unfamiliar vehicle parked at curb/in driveway, etc.
Also, there was layer of snow on the ground--this was about 24 hrs. before the 'blizzard' began, but there was still snow--and my recollection is police said early on there were 'no footprints' around outside of house.
McCaskey all good points. NSS - I can't believe someone would kill for percs or oxys... and know how to do it without any evidence.
Not dismissing 'simple robbery' motive out of hand; just saying IMO doesn't add up here.
Everybody should be vigilant in their neighborhood. We live at the end of a cul-de-sac, with wooded area to our side and rear. We have neighbors close proximity, but I've always been watchful.
Couple summers ago after dark my son was in his room and noticed "two guys in pick-up truck" slowly turning around cul-sac like 5-6 times, going up and down street. He told me about it. I said to let me know if he noticed it again.
Next night, about same time, he came to me--"they're back". Decided it was a fine time to walk the dog. Start walking down street, sure enough, here comes truck again. I move to middle, make driver stop and start to ask 'can I help you?" when pimply-faced teen rolls down window and I notice 'student driver' sticker in back. A kid out with his dad practicing. Told the dad why I asked and he was fine, totally understood.
Ya just never know.
"They did say they the robbers were looking for something specific."
Which to me means the house was ransacked, and there were obvious valuables left behind.
"Also, there was layer of snow on the ground--this was about 24 hrs. before the 'blizzard' began, but there was still snow--and my recollection is police said early on there were 'no footprints' around outside of house."
That puzzled me, too. But that also could mean the kid shoveled the sidewalk and driveway, leaving no obvious footprints or tire prints.
"...someone had a key to this house. When police responded to 911 call and looked about the place, no broken windows, glass, jimmyed-doors. All looked 'normal'."
Didn't the mother say on the 911 tape that Clarke was talking on his cell phone to a friend who they were going to pick up at 11 p.m. when the friend heard the phone drop and Clarke say, "who are you, what do you want?" My guess that they were calling the friend as they were leaving and encountered the perps as they opened the door.
Also, didn't the friend who was supposed to be picked up then go to the house, which she found was lit up and had looked like it had been ransacked? When LE came later, the house was dark. This may be a problem for LE when explaining they had no reason to break the door down. If 911 failed to relate to LE that the friend had found the house lit and it had appeared to be ransacked, those facts should have been cause to break down the door when taken with the fact that the friend had heard a commotion as they were leaving the house at 11 p.m. and that they had never picked her up.
Gee, $5,000 reward for info leading to double homocide, eh? Is it me, or does that seem a little light?
Anyway, Biker, you might be right on your info here. I haven't re-read all past Blade links yet.
I agree that $5K doesn't seem like much. Why don't we offer up some real money and catch these guys?
Five grand might be a lot of money to one of the dirtbags who could have knowledge about the case. Or their disgruntled girlfriend or guy down the street.
(CB's link is to a story about the Medina Township family of four Holland mentions early on in this thread; and how police there are offering a $1,500 reward for info leading to an arrest.)
"Gee, $5,000 reward for info leading to double homocide, eh? Is it me, or does that seem a little light."
My impression, too. Would be nice if Wal-Mart donated a chunk of change towards a reward to catch the killers. They're one of the larger companies in the community.
"...police there are offering a $1,500 reward for info leading to an arrest."
Man, that doesn't seem right, either.
The home invasion that took place in Sylvania township in August of 2010. A lady was tied up & bound by 2 masked men.
Did police ever arrest anybody ?
The Adrian-area home invasion was heinous and ugly, what with the rape and the kids involved. $1,500 reward seems underwhelming there certainly, but $5,000 for two people murdered--and the way they were murdered--just seems absurdly low.
Is there some 'formula' or past practice used in these reward offerings?
The police are in tough spots. Where do they get the money in the first place? We're asking them to take pay cuts and some cities are lying off officers. I’m sure they can’t afford to give out big rewards, to let’s face it, people who are pretty much scum for not coming forward in the first place.
How about TGI Friday's chipping in a little bit? Didn't both these kids work there?
Usually, people in a community, including residents and businesses, add to the pot over time. I am beginning to think the police have little to go on.
am i the only one that thinks it's somewhat horrifying that we have to offer up $ to help solve the case? the idea of walmart or tgifridays being a crucial part of the puzzle really weirds me out.
Yes, as a citizen you can donate to the police department that has jurisdiction for information about a particular crime. I've done it. However I don't about how CrimeStoppers is funded. My chashiers check was made payable to the local police department and when it cleared the police department issued the "reward" press release. And yes, the reward was claimed and the criminal caught and prosecuted based on that information. This was a burglary, not a murder.
No, upso, you're not the only one.
I'm not as weirded out over the thought of TGIFriday's putting up money; it's something they can DO in an otherwise uncontrollable situation.
But the idea that it has to be financially beneficial for someone to come forward with information? That makes me queasy.
"The idea that it has to be financially beneficial for someone to come forward with information? That makes me queasy."
An officer once told me that most people don't take the rewards when they come forward with information that leads to an arrest and ask that the money go back into the CrimeStopper fund for future arrests. Rewards are probably aimed at the "friends" of the perps, who also probably have records, so they are less likey to have much of a conscience when they come forward just to take the money.
It would suck if the money went to say the crackhead sister of one of the monsters who did this.
I think the way it works is that the perpetrators start talking about the crime to their friends and family. Five grand is enough of an incentive to get one of these people to go to the police and turn the criminals in.
This hits close to home because my family has been friends with the Straub family for years. Although I, personally, hadn't seen Lisa in over 12 years.
From the reports it sounds like she was getting involved with people who were less than honorable.
Mikey, that is pretty accurate based on what I was told from a direct source. Both individuals were getting involved with some pretty unsavory stuff/people.
Regardless, they certainly did not deserve what happened to them. Young adults make mistakes and occasionally do stupid things - it doesn't mean she was a bad person. I hope the people who are responsible are caught & punished.
Jack, I'm thinking the perps here were more 'professional' to be 'talking' about the crime to friends/family.
I think this crime was committed by some fairly serious people, not your garden-variety street-punks pissed over non-payment of a couple grand or whatever...
McCaskey: If that's the case then five grand isn't going to do it. I kind of hope you're wrong about the perps being hardened career criminals. If not, there's a good chance the perps will never get caught.
Have now heard from many people that it did involve a debt, relating to H. Regardless of the surrounding circumstances, two young people are dead and teh killers will probably never br caught. Sad.
I did hear that the walls had been bashed in. Reminds me of In Cold Blood and the Clutter murders, when an ex-farm hand of Mr. Clutter went to prison and falsely told a cell mate that Clutter, a well to do farmer, had a safe in his house.
I also heard, from a very good source, that the girl had skin under her fingernails. She fought hard for her life. Very sad. Sure hope they find the bastards.
They took 84 bucks from a change jar and left jewelry, flat-screens and computers. And sounds like they cleaned up after themselves pretty thoroughly.
Who the f*ck are these pricks?
I get angrier every time I read a new story about this.
I think the only way they're going to catch these guys is when one of them gets caught in another crime and starts singing as part of a plea bargain. Or, someone gets caught in another crime and his DNA matches what is found at the crime scene.
According to TV news reports tonight, the young man had been bragging about a safe that contained cash in the girlfriend's parents' home. There was no such safe - never had been. It explains the bashed in walls in the closet and other parts of the house as well as pictures that had been taken down and holes bashed in the wall behind them.
I can't make real good sense of that information. One look at a blank closet wall and you can pretty easily tell if there's a safe behind it. No access panel = no anything behind it. Thugs prepared in advance to kill in a brutal manner but acting on bad information? I hope the police do have DNA and that they can match it to someone. If the reward gets high enough someone will come forward with a tip.
According to the news, TGI Fridays - Airport Highway, is having a benefit for reward money Friday the 25th. I guess it's time the spouse and I grab a bite at Friday's.
"According to TV news reports tonight, the young man had been bragging about a safe that contained cash in the girlfriend's parents' home. "
Finally a good reason to go to TGI Fridays, I guess.
I'm just shaking my head over how this girl, by all appearances from a good home with good parents (I know neighbors of these people who attest to that) gets mixed up with this kid, someone with a criminal background, someone involved with obviously nefarious people.
I know, she was an 'adult', and made her own choices and all that, but still...
^^I'm sure he was "exciting"...knew all the right people at the clubs...etc.
"I'm just shaking my head over how this girl, by all appearances from a good home with good parents (I know neighbors of these people who attest to that) gets mixed up with this kid, someone with a criminal background."
Maybe she didn't know about his criminal past.
Possible I suppose. You'd think she'd pick up some 'vibe' from being around his friends. Maybe he was able to keep her seperate from his other world; that seems unlikely.
Ummm young girls love the bad boys, to pretend she didn't know is foolish. She had been with him long enough to understand what kind of garbage may or may not have revolved around his life.
Lie with dogs and you get fleas.
Unfortunately, even nice girls from good homes get involved with drugs sometimes, and good judgement flies out the window.
I have waning empathy for him, her and their parents but man alive they need to find these pople that did this to them quickly! That was a horrible way to die, really painful and prolonged. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. We should all be thinking of them in those last moments and hoping for a swift capture of those involved.
Was not random
Was a professional hit
Boy was bragging about a safe in the house with $75,000, though there wasn't a safe.
The perpetrators knew the code on the garage to get into the house. That's how they got in, not the front door.
The girl had been arrested 5 times.
The boy was in prison twice.
The boy may have snitched on someone who had just gotten out of prison that Friday.
Drugs and gangs involved.
DNA tests and results of other lab work on physical evidence expected any day.
FBI and BCI are in control of this case, not local LE
This is not surprising. It was obvious there was much more to this story. It was only a matter of time until the true details came out.
I'm not disputing what renegade says here because I don't know for certain otherwise, but unless he sites specific sources it's not information, it's speculation.
For instance, 'the girl had been arrested 5 times'--on what charges?
Were the murderers seeking money ('boy bragging about save with $75,000') or retribution ('boy may have snitched on someone who just got out of prison').
From Renegade: Boy was bragging about a safe in the house with $75,000, though there wasn't a safe.
I'd think $75K would buy a lot of death.
From Renegade: The girl had been arrested 5 times.
Yeah, what McCaskey said. If she was arrested, then she was. I'd like to know if charges were filed and if she were tried and convicted. Otherwise I'd count the arrests as being at the wrong place at the wrong time.
From Renegade: The boy was in prison twice. Truth, and that's what I'd concentrate on.
From Renegade: FBI and BCI are in control of this case, not local LE
Okay - who or what is BCI? Also, why are the FBI and BCI in control instead of the local police?
check SMC data base on Straub - no biggie,just DUI and redlight.
BCI = Bureau of Criminal Identification
check out Quintwez Sanders. He was a co-defendant in 2007 robbery w/ Clarke.
Clarke got judicial release after about 8 months, Sanders got 6 years and is still in the can.
I would think the disparity in sentences would trigger some thoughts on the part of Sanders.
Look him up on ODRC site. Does he look like a nice guy ?
why FBI and BCI instead of Jim Telb's local LE ?
that, my friend, is tooo, tooo funny !
that is like the old steak/hamburger comparison.
only this time it is a bunch of weiners !
OK, so the girl (Straub) had no real criminal record.
And Sanders is 'still in the can', not released Friday before murders.
This is what I mean by 'speculation' and not 'information'.
And how would the killers get the alarm code to enter the house, although that scenario does makes sense? I speculated earlier on here they had a house key...same premise.
Brilliant, McCaskey - YOU should call up JT and lend them a hand with your crack detective skills, no ?
Unless he is too busy covering up another crime by his band of merrymen.
as far as Sanders being "in the can" - take notice...
anyone "in the can" still has the ability to reach out and touch someone.
especially if they is gang-affiliated.
yes, Whitey, that's an equally 'brilliant' observation.
My point in mentioning that (Sanders still in prison) is the information differs from what renegade posted.
he did not say Sanders got out that Friday - he said "may" have gotten out that Friday.
maybe HarryHitman got out that day.
The DNA part sounds promising. That may, in the end, be what clinches this case.
Sorry, should have said this info came from law enforcement at a local public meeting this week. There was more, but I wasn't taking notes. Media was there, but I have not seen or heard anything yet.
WOnder why media did not report on this stuff since it was at a public meeting? Thanks for the info Renegade! (:
After a meeting with local law enforcement, I retract my comment about "H". I was told that a scale & residue was found and it appears that oxycontin was a factor to this event.
It sounds more and more like this crime will go unsolved. I think these were obviously pros. There's a rumor going around that he was to be state's evidence in an upcoming drug trial. The killers didnt't want this couple to testify and they wanted to send a message to anyone else to keep their mouth shut. Plausible. I hate to see it go unsolved. I dont think money will be a strong enough incentive to get anyone to provide any information. Why risk having a plastic bag taped around your head?
Well, if the deceased was a potential witness at an upcoming trial and he was killed because of it, I would think the authorities would have some identifiable suspects.
Hillbilly heroin. If the authorities haven't caught anyone yet, I think this one is destined for the cold case files. But you never know, something may turn up in the future.
Still nothing on this? Anyone heard anything recently?
"The suspect, Samuel Todd Williams, 24, 1626 Kelsey Ave., was arrested by Lucas County sheriff’s deputies and charged with two counts of murder, two counts of aggravated burglary, and one count of domestic violence."
Looks like he was in police custody on March 1st, 2011
Surprised it's only one person. I had assumed it was at least two. Maybe there's more to come. Kelsey Ave. is in East Toledo, isn't it?
Seems like a pretty angry guy. Lucas County and TMC dockets show plenty of arrests for domestic violence, assault, menacing, etc. I assume the Sheriff's office will release their theory of the case pretty soon.
Yes, Renegade, East Toledo.
Jonny's mom comments. This part is interesting:
"Mrs. Clarke said she looked at the jail booking photo of Mr. Williams and compared it with photographs of the suspect that were taken by a friend of the slain couple.
“He was in the picture on Facebook. I’m on the Internet looking at his picture right now,” she said."
Obviously a "friend" of the couple then.
This is what Maytee V. Clarke said about my son serving in Afghanistan in the USMC today on her Justice for Johnny & Lisa facebook page (of course she deleted it, but maybe you saw it):
"And STFU CRACKER just go to church and pray a bomb doesnt land on yours ok thats what you should be doing praying day and night for your faggot ass wanba be whatever you call it hmmm you never know when a granade will hit or a bomb"
This is what she said two days ago:
"and to cracker i hope a bomb doesnt land on your poor kid since you send him off to get killed wowwww good parenting there you lard ass kkk fool"
She calls me a KKK fool because I live in Georgia. Very nice.
This is what she posted about the Straubs yesterday:
"VERY DISGUSTED AT YOUR COMMENTS you know who you are you have kept yourselves hidden from the world and pretending it will all just go away. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves taking trips vacations living life off the hog while our family has kept our kids memory and everything in the media so noone will ever forget johnny and lisa and justice will be served.only faces ive seen in courts is ours and ive honored johnny and lisas memory together every step of the way and will continue to do so!!!WE ARE THE VOICE FOR JOHNNY S CLARKE AND LISA A STRAUB ALONG WITH GOD AND LAW ENFORCEMENT!!!we will continue our fight and prayers for JUSTICE!!!!!!!!"
Are you people in Toledo all like this woman? I know Ohio has lost some of their sons in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I just can't imagine someone making comments like that. Especially someone who lost a son to the streets.
I am a member of a board that has a crime forum. There are lots of Ohio folks there following this crime. She doesn't like what we think about her histrionics and grave decorations, so she posts nasty stuff about the members of the board. That's what all the "Mocktard" stuff is about.
When she posts crazy stuff, we copy it before she erases it. I don't think she realizes there is an electronic trail left when you post things, even if you erase it later.
Yesterday she actually pliagarized a post by Lisa's sister and posted it on her own page. The sister has deleted her, but she stalks the page under a different name. Would you like to that?
plagiarized. Jeez, I am mostly literate, promise.
She has always struck me as being a little off her rocker, to be honest. It could just be a reaction to her son's tragic death, but I wouldn't doubt it if she was a little mental even before that.
Interesting - after I made the above comment, I googled Maytee Clark. It seems that she has a lengthy criminal record of her own. (Not that it diminishes the tragedy of her son's murder, of course.)
It follows then, that the Straub family have been largely out of the media. First they are suffering - terribly. Secondly they are in a lesser sense victimized again by the antics of the Clarke family. I certainly wouldn't want to make a public media appearance with them.
But, my heart goes out to both the families equally. What a sickening tragedy. There is a nationally recognized support group - Parents of Murdered Children.
I'd like to think that this organization could offer some emotional help.
If we are talking about the mother of the murdered man, I saw her on the news when they made the arrest.
They showed her on her porch with a bunch of people and she was "acting" like she was bawling her eyes out, but no tears. Not a single tear.
Then, the news station showed the tape of when she found out he was first murdered. She was "bawling" her eyes out then, but once again, no tears.
She had the dramatics down to a "t", but no tears. Not one drop.
From what I saw on the news, she had a big group on her porch, a little shrine for her son set up in the front yard and even a shirt about it.
She struck me as a nut.
She has been stalking the Straub's surviving daughter on facebook. There is no excuse for that behavior. She should leave those people alone.
She said this in reference to the Straubs on the 29th:
Justice for Johnny & Lisa
Sweet beautiful johnny n lisa i know you felt safe and loved at our house...the love that you lacked elsewhere ;,,((( im sorry girly i remember many nights hugging you while you cried and all the stories you shared with me and your TRUE LOVE JOHNNY i will always treasure all our sweet memories because you were part of our family too
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And this on the 30th:
Justice for Johnny & Lisa
Kinda wishing you wouldve just went with san in nov im sure she wishes that too dammitt four years with her and no crazy sick shit ever happened and nowww the damn suburb and its element took your life ;,,((( I HATE THAT I LET YOU GO THERE I WISH I WOULDVE JUST LOCKED YOU IN YOUR ROOM YOU WOULD STILL BE HERE NOW ;,,((( i love you johnny rest in heavenly peace you and lisa i feel really sad for her too she also was safe here with us ;,,(((
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I know they have to try the cases together so they can ask for the death penalty in Ohio, but I wish they could try them as separate crimes so the Straubs don't have to have any contact with Maytee Vazquez Clarke. I don't know how they stand the sight of her.
I was completely shocked to see her ask for money in her son's obituary. It says in lieu of flowers, send donations to care for Johnny's brothers. I have never seen that before. Usually parents take care of children. Is that a usual thing to do in your area?
Also, how do I read the entire thread? All I can see is the last page of posts. Thank you.
Also, how do I read the entire thread? All I can see is the last page of posts. Thank you.
I don't understand. Last page of posts?
All comments in threads at Toledo Talk are not split across multiple pages like most message boards do.
You can view all the comments in this thread now. Click your "Home" key while in this thread, and that should take you to the top of this thread. Or while on the homepage, click the title of this thread Nasty piece of business, which will start you at the top.
Sorry, Cracker. We're not all like that here in Toledo, I promise.
One of the things I enjoy about this forum is the relative lack of interference by trolls and inarticulate (possibly impaired) participants. I cannot imagine how much of that you have to put up with on a crime forum. It must be very distressing to everyone involved. I kind of avoid broadcast news on TV so I don't have to watch the kinds of scenes described above. Too demoralizing, like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
I'm guessing this is the site: http://mockforums.net
This is the forum: Lady Cop's Cell Block
And these are the threads:
The "Justice for Johnny Clarke and Lisa Straub" FB page is bonkers. I know she is grieving, but I would imagine that it would be more helpful to perhaps seek counseling than to spend all day posting things like this:
Don't let your grandmother read it. The name of the site says it all, the crime forum is for the serious crime buffs.
I wanted to know if the behavior exhibited was typical of Toledo. If this site is any indication, I wouldn't think so.
I feel for anyone who has lost a child, especially in this manner, I really do. But sitting on Facebook and spewing hate at every turn seemed odd behavior for a grieving mother.
If I didn't like what people had to say, I wouldn't read it. I wouldn't wish harm to come to their children. I certainly wouldn't respond to strangers on a mock website. Many of those folks are from Toledo, btw.
This is why she gets such a hard time: http://i53.tinypic.com/1zwf7s4.jpg
I hope the Straubs sue her to shut her up. It is sickening that she keeps posting pictures of the underage girl drinking.
I have little sympathy for a person who doesn't respect the wishes of the other victim's family.
If someone knows this crazy broad, tell her to stay off facebook until the trial is over.
I'm waiting to hear the details of why this happened. Things like this aren't usually random.
The Straub family, thru their spokesperson, Mr. Verbosky, has continuously stated that Maytee Clark does not speak for them or represent them in these public releases
I was completely shocked to see her ask for money in her son's obituary. It says in lieu of flowers, send donations to care for Johnny's brothers. I have never seen that before. Usually parents take care of children. Is that a usual thing to do in your area?
When a parent of minor children passes away, I occasionally see something mentioned that, in lieu of flowers, there has been a fund set up to help for the care of the deceased's minor children.
I can understand that to an extent, of course. If I were to die suddenly, I have substantial life insurance to provide for my child, in addition to the survivor's benefits they could receive from social security. However, I understand that some parents don't or can't plan ahead like that, and somehow the child still needs to be taken care of.
However, I do find it quite tacky on the rare occasion that I see blatant requests for money in an obituary when the deceased didn't have any children. (Sometimes friends of the family will help arrange contributions to cover funeral costs which is fine, but I'm talking more about the blatant requests for money in the obituary - such as the example you cited above.)
Just read some of the links and previous court cases involving Maytee. WOW !
Wow this woman is CRAAAA ZEEEE!
I feel for you Cracker. I went to the links you posted and the stuff she was saying to/about you guys on there. All I have to say is you're very patient.
I wouldn't be surprised if it comes from some type of guilt about the case. I've seen crazy grieving but accusing strangers trying to assist with the case of being child molesters? That's over every line.
"Are you filming? Hang on, let me take off my shirt first."
<p style="width:320px">Mom: Police make arrest in Straub-Clarke homicide: foxtoledo.com</p>
Your daily Maytee: http://i51.tinypic.com/2yzgzvb.jpg
She's icky. Febreeze can't fix everything, I guess.
"She doesn't like what we think about her histrionics and grave decorations, so she posts nasty stuff about the members of the board."
"If someone knows this crazy broad, tell her to stay off facebook until the trial is over."
"I have little sympathy for a person who doesn't respect the wishes of the other victim's family."
Cracker, until you've lost a child, don't judge someone who has gone through such a devastating experience. I don't think I could survive such a thing, particularly when the child is lost to violence. I'm sure she's suffering from guilt as well. I can't imagine the darkness she is in. She probably wishes she were dead. After reading her Facebook page, I feel such deep sympathy for her. She is obviously in tremendous pain, striking out at others. I hope she finds some peace in her life. She will never be the same. Stop taunting her, if you are responding to her posts in any way. Why do you feel the need to even respond?
"I wanted to know if the behavior exhibited was typical of Toledo."
"I have never seen that before. Usually parents take care of children. Is that a usual thing to do in your area?"
"Are you people in Toledo all like this woman?"
Yeah, we've all lost children in Toledo. That's what makes us so unique. When we cut ourselves, we bleed just like everyone else. Don't be such an ass.
You really assume a lot. Nobody I know posts on any of her pages or contacts her in any way. She has a "friend" on our site, probably herself, that feeds her what people say. That would fall under her OWN responsibility as far as I can tell.
If you find that behavior acceptable, just say your find it acceptable. The family of the other victim would like for her to stop pretending she represents their daughter in any way. She won't stop. If you also find that acceptable in any way, that is your short-coming.
I'm not much into professional victimhood. It bothers me. It is healthy or normal. The hatefulness is just trashy. I can't think of a good reason for it. Striking out at the Straubs, and blaming them for what happened, is about as low as a person can get.
If you are down with that, that is your choice. I find it distasteful. But I'm not from the hood, so maybe it's just me.
isn't healthy or normal.
I really need to proofread before I post.
Thank jr for posting the links, just scanning through the Lady Cop forum you can really see how they have degenerated from a group of people interested in the case sharing theories, thoughts, and some good background info into what it is now with the group members waiting for the mother to post something crazy on a facebook memorial page so they can attack her and really let her have it.
"Are you people in Toledo all like this woman?" - just a little haughty and sardonic me thinks
Thanks Cracker for bringing YOUR problems with her to this site where it looks to me like you are just trying to get some supporters (under the guise of defending the honor of our troops serving overseas, such as your own son) because she said some nasty/not so nice things about your son. It looks like she had seen some of the comments you had posted and her reponse was more than you could handle.
a friend of mine was brutally murdered when i was a teenager. i remember sitting in class one day and a classmate was talking about how he heard her mother wore something odd to the funeral home, etc. it made me sick. who is anyone to judge someone after the loss of their child? life is not supposed to be like that. i think the people on that board with so little regard for others in mourning should be ashamed of themselves and only hope they never experience something like that.
I did mention most of those folks were from Toledo in that crime forum, right? Anything you think of a negative nature can be directed back to your own community. I don't post too much in it. You'll notice that if you read it. If you didn't, then you won't have noticed. :)
Why is it my problem that you have such a person in your community? I don't live there. If I did, I wouldn't live in that neighborhood.
Just thought you folks would like to know. If it doesn't matter to you, it doesn't matter. No skin off Cracker's ass. I'm sure you are more used to that sort of thing than I am. And I live close to ATL, so that is saying something.
I was really posting it for the Marine families. Since most of you seem to be liberal, I doubt there are many here...
A little haughty? hahahaha Okay.
You are correct in that I don't usually "handle" folks like her IRL. People I know are mostly decent and educated. If they do decide to curse you, they spell it correctly.
Who needs supporters? I am grown. Honestly, I don't think she could afford to drive here and kick my ass. They don't even have a car. If she gets on a Greyhound, I have time to pack and move. hahahahahaha
And sparky, while you are in the community mind, think about how it must be for the two boys who are left. How much education are they getting in "home school" from a person who can't write a complete sentence and man who won't wear a shirt in public or keep a job? What can you teach somebody of value if you spend your time wrapped up in "fatal pain" and hate? What coping skills are they getting? What is their life going to be when the trial is over and spotlight is off of them? Maybe you should stop by and check on them. Not being snarky, sparky, just a suggestion.
I feel for this woman, I couldn't ever imagine what she is going through. But this is the problem with Facebook, it's lets all your crazy out for the world too see. Free speech is a 2 way street, if you where not disseminating your opinion into the world and where expressing your thoughts and feelings with those who you loved and trusted this wouldn't be an issue.
She should be seeking release and guidance with her support group, but if you let it rip on the internet expect people to judge you, it's how it works.
I really feel for everyone involved in this, it is absolutely terrible. BUT the poor kid's dad can't even put on a fucking shirt to be interviewed by the news? I'm sure the Straub family is, on top of being devastated by the death of their daughter, completely horrified seeing images of the Clarke family and the shirtless wonder on TV talking about the case.
I will be shocked if one of the Clarkes doesn't try to take a swing at the defendant at least once during the trial.
Shortly after the incident happened, I was pretty surprised to hear a person with direct knowledge about the case make a comment about what type of people the Clarkes were. At the time, it seemed very insensitive...especially given that it wasn't too long after the murder.
But I have to say, the more I see, the less surprised I am by what was said.
Well to biker, sparky, and Ryan I would say you can feel for the Clark family but remember there are two families who are grieving and Maytee openly attacked the Straubs.
It's no secret that I have connections to the Straubs. I will say they are good and private people, had absolutely nothing to do with what happened, and do not deserve to be attacked.
That was where my sympathy for Maytee stopped, when she crossed the line.
Maytee accusing people with interest in the case as harboring murderers and being child molesters was just her crossing even further over the line. There are limits to everything, including sympathy.
It's a pitiful state of affairs when probably the only thing in your adult life you ever deserved positive attention and respect for is your suffering because of the horrific death of your son. Now the police have to be nice to her, instead of arresting her for something. She's enjoying this attention and milking it for all its worth .......and more. I have a nagging suspicion that the Clarke family is somehow aquainted with some of the perpetrators. And Oh My God, the poor Straub family. They're in two hells simultaneously.
I still do have some sympathy for Maytee Clarke though as a mother. There's real pain there I'm sure. Her son was in her life and now that's gone, forever.
From MikeyA: It's no secret that I have connections to the Straubs.
It wasn't exactly public knowledge either. Send me some email, MikeyA. It's likely we have a good friend in common.
I think Holland nailed it pretty well. While Maytee and family may well be suffering, that doesn't keep her from enjoying all the attention she's getting or trying to parlay that attention into a pay day.
Meanwhile, beyond the noise and looney tunes...how does a thug from East Toledo just happen upon a house way over in Springfield Twp. with homeowners away on cruise...with intent to just burglarize? Sure...
Pure conjecture. Do you know for a fact that "momma" receives benefits? My only conjecture is that "momma" is somehow connected to or aquianted with the perpetrators.
Some of the comments in the news articles indicate that Cameo Pettaway went to Bowsher with Johnny Clarke.
Has anyone seen a legit souce of info stating that?
"Off to court with a big ass hangover pt.2 lol." One of the many inspirational gems found on his FB wall.
Did you see the "All n a days wrk. now hiring taking applications all week only." caption accompanying the stacks of cash photo?
That was posted on 9/22. This was his status on 10/3: "Yea lots of you got jobs. now lets b real that s*** aint cuttin it get on this fantasy team..."
WTF? Is he recruiting new drug dealers on FB? Dumbazz.
If you're reading the comments on the Blade site, just ignore the Ty Coon guy...he's pretty much an insane bigot who trolls the local news and blog sites.
He usually has a few puppets going on both ToledoTalks and Swampbubbles at any given time...
June 25th: "hole half of kush gone bum ass niggas musta needed it more thn me lol. more were tht came frm..."
Yeah, it's amazing what some people choose to make public.
Thanks Sensor - I actually first saw it in a WTOL comment that appears to have been deleted, so I can't tell who posted it. But it probably was the same guy, if he likes to troll local media sites.
brainswell - too bad the oldest history on this page is from May 2nd. He said that he started a new page, because hackers got his other page.
Would have been interesting to see what he posted immediately before and after the murders...a moron like that probably would have revealed some incriminating info.
Yeah, I was thinking that as well and hit the same roadblock. Hopefully they have enough on him to keep him locked up for a long time.
He has another page that I looked at that had a big gap of nothing from November 2010 to April 2011. I found the other page after looking at his mothers encouraging comments and a look at her friends page showed both of his profiles. Him and Samuel Williams went to Waite according to fb.
Interesting, sparky. Considering that he seems to be a pretty frequent FB poster, I wonder if the gap is due to a chunk of time intentionally being deleted?
Check out the comment he made on 11/13/2010:
"police stay fuckn wit me one day they gone run up on the wrong. one one day."
Unless I'm translating wrong, it appears that he was making a threat towards the police.
He posted this:
"Dam r.i.p. D GREEN my nigga my bro"
Within a few hours of DeAndre Green being shot. (A homicide from Oct 2010 - think its still unsolved see here: http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=13379991 )
Any surprise that Cameo Pettaway would be friends with someone who got gunned down in the street?
Regardless if he is involved or not, which I'm guessing he is in some way, reading through his Facebook page shows you what a giant idiot he is. You wanna live the "thug life" this is the shit that happens. I'm so sick of these piece of shit thugs.
hanssnapper - I spent 35 years in the convenience store and check cashing business. I'll wager I know a heck of lot more about the populace that receives government benefits and their habits than most, probably including you. And I dont waste my time thinking up scenarios when its obvious that all the known facts in this case havn't been disclosed. My one foray into conjecture is based on the fact that Maytee Clark has a serious criminal history, hence her association with the criminal element as a card carrying member.
That aside, this new arrestee is certainly a thug. Yikes. He's bad, bad news from the looks of things. Hats off to the police. So much time had elapsed that I really thought this case would go unsolved.
A real Renaissance man, that Cameo.
"I'm so sick of these piece of shit thugs."---hunkytownsausage.
And I'll ask again--how in the world could Lisa Straub get involved with individuals who live in this kind of world, this sort of life? Spare me the 'bad-boy attraction' theories---'bad boys' are motorcycles and leather jackets. These people aren't Fonzie. They're dangerous, dregs of society.
"Mr.Pettaway, who did not graduate from high school, has five children with three women. He was 14 when his first child, a girl, was born, Mrs. Baker (his mother) said. His youngest child is 6 months old." This guy is the absolute dregs of society, and so are the woman he impregnated. Disgusting. At least he's in jail where he cant spawn anymore offspring and isn't available to be a role model for his children.
Further reading of the Blade article reports a long list of domestic violence and assault charges, hitting a man over the head with a bar stool, and misdemeanor drug abuse.
No halo but I do see the ring for a missing smoke detector.
He is a product of our failed war on drugs, this is what we get by creating a black market for hooligans to become rich off of.
Thank the DEA for him.
You're right. This peice of crap slug of humanity would have been in trouble whether the illegal drug business was lucrative or not. He has no motivation or cognizant ability to earn any kind of living responsibly. If not drugs, then it would have been car jacking or whatever. Even uglier is the fact that his offspring are likely doomed to the same fate. Those baby's momma's sure picked a winner for a sperm donor.
Mr.Pettaway, who did not graduate from high school, has five children with three women. He was 14 when his first child, a girl, was born...
Those baby's momma's sure picked a winner for a sperm donor.
And now the rest of us have the privilege of paying for both his and his "baby mommas" irresponsibility. Section 8, food stamps, Medicaid, free this, free that. Hooray.
Don't get me wrong--I'll completely pay for his prison cell and a lifetime of horror inside. That seems like a wise use of funds.
But excuse me that I don't type more. I have to go work now for my house, my food, my health care, my small family's comforts; somehow my bills just don't get forgiven because I have the burden of a work ethic, education, and morals.
Although, it would seem that I had a poor education; I should have just fucked my way to my lifetime support from the trough, instead of getting that M.A. Maybe in the next life.
This whole story depresses me greatly.
Of course his parents share the blame but I don't hear any revisionist history about blaming Al Capone's parents.
"heroin, oxycontin, cocaine, etc. should be legalized" I can pull up bible thumpers from the 20's & 30's (and some still do) who said them same thing about booze. Google search Billy Sunday and prohibition. You can't get filthy stinking rich over the course of a couple of hours stealing car radios or even cars. The vehicle to become wealthy with little to no work is created by us trying to impose morality on other people with laws. By chance you ever driven through the inner city at night and seen people trying to sell bottles of Jack on the corner or shooting at each other over who gets to sell it where? It's the ability to create easy money that fuels theses crimes. If Johnny Suburb could goto the pharmacy and purchase a pack of left handed cigarettes then yes an unimaginable amount of crime would be reduced.
Your a fool if you don't think alcohol doesn't destroy as many lives as "heroin, oxycontin, cocaine, etc." but we don't have people killing each other in the streets over it. Just because Bud makes good Super Bowl commercials and we all love it, doesn't mean it's any less harmful or addictive. Booze America's taxable and socially acceptable drug. Next time you take a shot or sip a cold one think about all the people who died because of it and let me know how you feel, no better or worse than any street drug. If you don't believe me come down to Cherry Street mission one day and talk to all those who alcohol has destroyed. Take booze off the shelf again and I gaurantee you the same events of the 20's & 30's would take place, cause Johnny Six Pack still needs his "fix" watching the Browns game on Sunday. But it would some how be the parents fault when the next Capone rose up?
Animals are always going to be animals but these people are dead as a product of the war on drugs.
There is no one-size-fits-all answer for people of this ilk and how they became as they are.
Parenting? Sure, part of the equation. Same with lower-class economics.
But then I always think of my brother-in-law, whose parents divorced when he was like 10, neither of whom cared an iota about him, floating from home to home, started running with 'gang'-types early on (they were called 'hoods' then, this was the 60's) began 'seeing' my sister, impregnating her while both in high school. They married week before senior prom.
Many years later, he's a self-made multi-millionaire, pillar of the community, been married to my sister almost 50 years, his son a business partner of his. His annual charitable givings probably double my yearly income.
Point is the Williams, Pettaways and Clarkes of this world can break free of their circumstances. It is possible. But there are people born 'bad'. And bad they stay---forever. And doesn't have squat to do with 'parenting.'
I should have just fucked my way to my lifetime support from the trough, instead of getting that M.A. Maybe in the next life.
OHT - I think you're the wrong gender for that. Now me, on the other hand, I should start taking notes.
He is showing money and vehicles without any means of support, tax evasion and child support, two of the charges that will stick. Remember they got his mentor, Capone on tax evasion, no matter if you make the money illegally, you must pay taxes on it. If you read the facebook page, many of his friends list employment as the streets.
One of the photos of him sitting in the black camaro was taken at Ravine Park Village...one of East Toledo's three housing projects. Unfortunately, this kid didn't die before he was able to reproduce. The three females that had his children hopefully are no longer able to bear future children. Welfare helped create this problem. Had the gov't never started paying idiots and trash more money to have more babies, many of these troubled people would not have ever existed.
Lock this piece of shit away and be done with it. I don't even care what it is for.
The Feds would never prosecute some low level street criminal for tax evasion, and the only way the county can prosecute him for non-support of dependants is if there is a court order in place, which there probably isn't.
Hey McCaskey! Nice to hear about your brother-in-law making good. At least something good is happening.
From what I understand Lisa Straub continued her relationship with Johnny Clarke over the objections of family members. No one realized just how bad Johnny was or the kind of criminals Johnny associated with. Possibly Lisa thought she could reform him - who knows?
I'm waiting to see if these two will be found guilty and given a fine hanging.
McCaskey - I would have sworn you were describing someone I know, if not for what you said about his son being his business partner now. (The person I'm referencing only had daughters.)
He lives in Pa., where I'm from and rest of my family. So nobody would know him out here.
There are people who grow up in unfortunate circumstances who make something positive of their lives every day. Too bad that gets drowned out by the ones who don't, these scum prime examples.
There are people who grow up in unfortunate circumstances who make something positive of their lives every day.
Too true, too true.
If we were to eliminate one excuse from this world, it is "I'm poor/neglected/abused [a.k.a. "disadvantaged"], therefore my circumstances made me prone to commit crimes". Sorry, no sale. If that was the case, the "99%" I keep hearing so much about would have carte blanche to commit whatever crimes they want. Almost everyone overcomes something...nobody has all the advantages. Plus, the excuse doesn't explain why rich people, with several of the advantages in the world, commit heinous crimes (O.J., Menendez brothers...).
Different scales of justice for rich and poor...yeah, I'll buy that. But that's after the crime. Not talking about what happens in the system or systematic bias. I'm talking about circumstances. You can be poor, young, and stupid...and be a thug, or you can be poor and young...but fight your way out of stupid and become a great, productive person with a greater insight of what it takes to thrive than someone who it was just handed to. It really is a personal choice.
Here's a perfect example of "thug life 4-eva's" type of mentality.
I'm sure it was their "disadvantaged" background that made 'em shove and slug this woman in the face...
There should be at least two more arrests in this case.
Whether the killers are from Waite or Bowsher, info on the street has been quite accurate.
Maybe sensorlessgirl, can explain why others knew what this radical jackass didn't and, never would know.
Having your head so far up someones else's colon, does that to disgusting, degenerates, and dispicable dimwits, like he/she is.
Just curious if there has been any new developments in this story. I haven't heard anything on the news in quite awhile.
Just checked the docket and it looks like this is scheduled to go to trial on May 30.