Red Light Cameras in the News Again

The presumption is that your vehicle was used to violate the law, not that the registered owner is guilty. The ticket is like putting a lien on your house for an unpaid utility. These cameras target bad drivers for driving bad, which is good for everyone and for the city. If you don't like them, obey the law and you will never have to deal with it.

I like the cameras because it is proven they reduce accidents at dangerous intersections. They change driver behavior quickly for people who feel comfortable at a particular intersection. I also like the fact that one officer can review dozens, if not hundreds of these a day. Pretty efficient when you compare it to manual enforcement.

I don't like the cameras because the company that owns them takes a large chunk of the revenues and driving through an intersection should not be seen as consent to being photographed by the government. Private enterprise should not be profiting excessively from violations of the law.

OHT, just because 1 in 4 were overturned by a court does not mean 25% of all issued tickets were wrong. The sample is not random with respect to all issued tickets. People who think the ticket was wrongly issued are more likely to fight the ticket than the person who knows they ran the red light.

The presumption is that your vehicle was used to violate the law, not that the registered owner is guilty.

Objects do not pay fines, nor can they be cited for infractions of the law. A car is an object, not a life form. The registered owner pays the fine, which is predicated upon an infraction of the law. "Innocent" or all other drivers are not paying fines, only those who are photographed, meaning the presumption of this machine snapping your picture and the expectation that you will pay within 21 days means you are presumed guilty of an infraction.

If you don't like them, obey the law and you will never have to deal with it.

Wrong--apparently 239 citizens who did not break the law "had to deal with it".

P.S.--I have never gotten a red light ticket, ever. I have one speeding ticket in my life (16 years old at the time). I have no personal ax here; but I cannot support this system as presently constructed.

You make an excellent point about consenting to be photographed by the government and private enterprise profiting from violations of the law.

"I like the cameras because it is proven they reduce accidents at dangerous intersections. "

Quite the contrary, according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_light_camera#Studies. At the very least, the evidence is highly inconclusive.

But the really hard nugget to chew on is this: Lengthening the duration of the yellow light is far, far more effective at reducing accidents and increasing safety than any traffic enforcement mechanism. Why, then, is this not used?

Well, pardner, then there wouldn't be any "money" to be made!! Remember, they are not "red light" cameras, they are revenue cameras...

Have you ever been to traffic court? Have you ever heard all the BS stories that people make up? Same thing happens with red light cameras. Things get dismissed or discharged every single day in courts, doesn't mak ethem innocent of the charge. I got my second one last year. I remembered distinctly that I WAS speeding so I sent in a check. The problem isn't the cameras - the problem is we let grown ass babies drive around who can't tale responsibility for their own actions.

I wish the cameras would flag and fine the zombies who drive well below the speed limit.

Speeding will be slowed a bit now thanks to the natural forming speed bumps known as craters.

Lets all agree on one thing. The ONLY reason the city put those camera's up was to make money. If anyone thinks they did it for the safety of the people, you don't know how things operate in this city.

Who cares if thats the ONLY REASON? I don't. The city certainly needs the money. I've gotten a ticket for speeding via one of the cameras on the trail. No problem... I was speedinging... I paid it... and didn't have the hassle of having to deal with being pulled over.

I was speeding and got busted. Booo hooo poor me. Who cares? It's a small ticket for doing exactly what I was doing.

oldhometown says "239 of 892 contested red light tickets were overturned by the courts." and that is a "1 in 4 failure rate ". No, dude. we would need the total number of tickets issued, not contested, to see what the real failure rate is. I'm certain it's wayyyyyyyyyy less that 1 in 4.

"I wish the cameras would flag and fine the zombies who drive well below the speed limit."

I WISH there was some sort of camera to ticket the assholes that drive under the limit in the fast lane when there are folks clearly trying to move on. You know the type... a car is behind them, moving at a higher rate of speed but that jerkoff feels 'entitled' to that lane and doesn't move over into the clear and empty lane to the right.

That sort of driving is way more dangerous than speeding as it provokes most drivers to pass on the right side. I will never understand why those people would put so many other people (in their lanes and in other lanes) at risk. MOVE OVER! Seriously, Europe has got it down when it comes to driving. They move over, no problem.

Len the far left lane is for passing and contrary to popular belief is not the autobahn lane. The way you feel about how fast someone is going doesn't make the other person need to break the law by going faster than the posted speed limit to satisfy your want to do so. Being angry at someone because they are not breaking a law because you wish too is always a loosing argument. Are you going to pay that person's ticket? Did you pay more road taxes than they did so you should enjoy more of the road?

While the person going the speed limit in the "fast lane" does annoy me, I can't get up set about them not breaking the law. Just pass them on the right, it's no big deal anymore.

Just because you are going fast Ricky Bobby doesn't mean you are entitled to that lane, in all reality if you are not passing someone you are not entitled to that space.

"that drive under the limit"
you should reread before you post dbw

Other than being being inconsiderate and irritating, passing on the right being illegal is apparently a common misconception. From the Ohio Revised Code:

4511.28 Overtaking and passing upon the right of another vehicle.

(2) Upon a roadway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in the direction being traveled by the overtaking vehicle...

Also, under ORC 4511.22 a motorist can be cited for slow speed that impedes the normal flow of traffic. I recall some teenagers a few years ago who were horsing around on I-75 and were cited because they deliberately backed up traffic by staying in the left lane at the same speed as a semi in the right lane. The teens thought it was hilarious that they created a mile-long backup, but the state troopers thought otherwise.

dbw8906, I said nothing of forcing the car ahead to speed up. I said "move over".

Len I agree with your frustration as I drive over 200 highway miles a day and fully understand. But it's hard to be on the side of anyone who is frustrated with someone else does not wish to break the law (speeding in the left lane).

I don't like left lane drivers either,but the last time I looked the speed limit is the same in both lanes.I could be going over the speed limit in the left lane by ten miles an hour and there are still drivers that will ride my ass because I am not going fifteen miles per hour over the limit.No matter how fast you drive in the left lane there will always be drivers upset with you not driving faster.

Back to the red light cameras.I personally don't like them especially in the winter.I hate having the short yellow lights that make you want to slam your brakes on so you won't get a ticket.In the winter it might cause you to loose control just trying to avoid a right light camera ticket.I have learned where most of the cameras are in Toledo and will drive below the speed limit when approaching one of those intersections.I agree with what was posted earlier about increasing the time of the yellow lights in Toledo.My son lives in California and when he comes back here he has a hard time adjusting to the short lights.It would be a much cheaper solution to increase the time of yellow lights.I think it would decrease accidents at intersections.We know that it will never happen because it is all about revenue and not safety.

Toledoans alreday act like yellow is bright green! The last thing they need to do is increase the yellow time. They just need to add a few seconds between when one light turns red and the other turns green because not enough people know about the 3 second rule in Toledo. I don't know where you all are going that is so very important all the time.

"I hate having the short yellow lights that make you want to slam your brakes on so you won't get a ticket.In the winter it might cause you to loose control just trying to avoid a right light camera ticket."

I hear ya. I have to pass through a red light camera intersection all the time, and it's tough when the roads are bad and icy. I am one of those people who drives very slowly in such weather while others seem to buzz right by me in the other lane. I wonder if the police would consider that a mitigating factor if you got a citation for not getting through the intersection fast enough because of the bad weather.

I hate red light cameras, but at the same time I see their purpose. People downtown (and I'm sure elsewhere in Toledo) tend to take red lights as more of a suggestion.

Section 4D.26 Yellow Change and Red Clearance Intervals
Standard:
01 A steady yellow signal indication shall be displayed following every CIRCULAR GREEN or GREEN
ARROW signal indication and following every flashing YELLOW ARROW or flashing RED ARROW
signal indication displayed as a part of a steady mode operation. This requirement shall not apply when
a CIRCULAR GREEN, a flashing YELLOW ARROW, or a flashing RED ARROW signal indication is
followed immediately by a GREEN ARROW signal indication.
02 The exclusive function of the yellow change interval shall be to warn traffic of an impending change in
the right-of-way assignment.
03 The duration of the yellow change interval shall be determined using engineering practices.
Support:
04 Section 4D.05 contains provisions regarding the display of steady CIRCULAR YELLOW signal indications to
approaches from which drivers are allowed to make permissive left turns.
Guidance:
05 When indicated by the application of engineering practices, the yellow change interval should be followed by
a red clearance interval to provide additional time before conflicting traffic movements, including pedestrians,
are released.
Standard:
06 When used, the duration of the red clearance interval shall be determined using engineering practices.
Support:
07 Engineering practices for determining the duration of yellow change and red clearance intervals can be found
in ITE’s “Traffic Control Devices Handbook” and in ITE’s “Manual of Traffic Signal Design” (see Section 1A.11).
Standard:
08 The durations of yellow change intervals and red clearance intervals shall be consistent with the
determined values within the technical capabilities of the controller unit.
09 The duration of a yellow change interval shall not vary on a cycle-by-cycle basis within the same signal
timing plan.
10 Except as provided in Paragraph 12, the duration of a red clearance interval shall not be decreased or
omitted on a cycle-by-cycle basis within the same signal timing plan.
Option:
11 The duration of a red clearance interval may be extended from its predetermined value for a given cycle based
upon the detection of a vehicle that is predicted to violate the red signal indication.
12 When an actuated signal sequence includes a signal phase for permissive/protected (lagging) left-turn
movements in both directions, the red clearance interval may be shown during those cycles when the lagging
left-turn signal phase is skipped and may be omitted during those cycles when the lagging left-turn signal
phase is shown.

Someone go take out the ITE handbooks and read the sections on yellow change and red clearance and then calculate how many red light camera intersections DO NOT comply. Especially since compliance with this section is REQUIRED by 2014 per the Feds.

Guidance:
14 A yellow change interval should have a minimum duration of 3 seconds and a maximum duration of 6
seconds. The longer intervals should be reserved for use on approaches with higher speeds.
15 Except when clearing a one-lane, two-way facility (see Section 4H.02) or when clearing an exceptionally
wide intersection, a red clearance interval should have a duration not exceeding 6 seconds.