CedarCreek Church

That church is getting a little bit too big. That is never a good thing.

<cue flood of CedarCreek supporters chiming in on how this is the greatest church ever>

you obviously don't donate enough.

So you mean that one unproven email makes all they have done useless? Not disagreeing with rfisher, but every post so far has been negative and I have no idea why the drama director would be forwarding an email from Lee. Alls I am saying is lets not get too worked up just yet, mmmkay? I know thats what Toledoans like to do.I wish I had a dollar for every untruth i have heard about that place. Inclduing when you Mike posted a picture of a BMW on your blog and said it was Lees. Only to find out it was the owner of Cedar Creek Horse Farm. Get what I mean?

Ryan, Casey Wagner's official title is 'Assistant to the Senior Pastor'. Originally I sent my first letter to Lee, I had no idea who else to send it to. Apparently, Lee decided to hand the matter over to his assistant. Obviously, the assistant told him I wrote a second time, and that's when Lee made the comment for me to find another home church.

And no, not saying that their work is useless at all. The church has changed many lives for the better. But I find it a bit hypocritical for him to stand up there and preach about how important it is to bring new members in, and treat each and every one of them like family, then turn around and tell me to find a new church just because he has an usher that's rude as can be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzYARpU_6ws

rfisher wrote "he has an usher that's rude as can be"

If someone not responding when you nod is what you consider "as rude as can be," you have a very low threshold for what is rude behavior. This sounds like a Seinfeld episode if you ask me. Move on.

Check to see if you zipper is down. Many people tend to look away and/or not respond to me when I parade around with my fly in "ventilation" mode.

If it isn't down, try putting it down next time. There's always a way to get her attention. Keep us updated. I have some more ideas coming to me as I type this.

Actually, Ryan, my poiint was that this was going to turn into a thread like those related to Cornerstone, with the site becoming a magnet for church supporters.

And why not tell the whole story, Ryan? Like how the car in question had a license plate that said "CEDAR CREEK," how it was located about a mile away from the church's main campus, and how I owned up for making the error in speculating on whether this was someone in the church hierarchy solely on the basis of your insider knowledge? Nah, better to keep this item safely stocked away for use as a rhetorical weapon. Nice play, though: perhaps you have a future as a political campaign tactician, though I suspect Christ think otherwise.

But thanks for proving my point, anyways, about church supporters rushing to defend Cedar Creek.

Oh, and how is swantucky's "that church is getting a little too big" a negative comment? Seems pretty innocuous to me, but maybe your love for the church and its mission blinds you to the fact that the mushrooming of the church's growth just might be causing problems for some members.

Carry on.

I don't care if the car was parked in CC parking lot, you were wrong and far too eager to try and make Lee look bad. That was the initial point and still is, don't try to twist it around. Its a shame that something that can bring so much joy to some people upsets others so. And I havent been in a very long time, so I am no member - just realistic. Try it sometime.

And I wasn't being nasty when I first made that post, just stating a fact. But you on the other hand, he who can never be wrong and must be idolized on the internet for self satisfaction, has a tizzy.

Heh - "tizzy"? Too much, but thanks for the chuckle. And if anyone is full of himself, I suggest looking in the mirror, Ryan: you are the Crown Prince of Bloviation on this site.

As far as my error rate: I freely admit I make mistakes, and I make amends when I do. I am not sure what you mean about "must be idolized on the Internet for self-satisfaction," though. If by that you mean "a dude who posts his thoughts online for others to see," then I respectfully submit that you are equally guilty.

Your problem (if I too may engage in psychological diagnosis) is one of having a thin skin: you frequently go into attack mode when someone disagrees with you, and the rancor you exhibit on this site seems incongruous with a person who calls himself a born-again Christian.

By the way: not to judge, but this is an awful lot of bile to be spilling on Sunday morning. I suggest attending a Cedar Creek service instead of wasting time turning this into a thread war.

Oh, and "eager to make Lee look bad"? I have never met Lee, do not know the first thing about Lee, and could care less about this "Lee" person. Get over your paranoid delusions: I merely saw an expensive imported car with "CEDAR CREEK" on it license plate, had my camera handy at the time, took a picture, and commented. There is no conspiracy on my part to defame or impugn anyone named Lee.

Except Lee Majors. What a jackass: dude never returns my calls, and then he went out and got a PPO after I politely stood outside his living room window and waited to see him use his bionic arm. No fun, that Lee.

Again, I was not nasty in my inital post yet you were. And again you just tried to defend yourself to no avail. HM can do no wrong. Chuckle indeedy.

<facepalm>

It's been funny, but I gotta move on, brother. Good luck to you and your church.

I said Good Day!

Ryan are we quoting Willy Wanka now? Nice.

"This sounds like a Seinfeld episode ..."

I thought the same thing. Specifically, the episode titled The Ex-Girlfriend. A guy in Elaine's apartment stopped acknowledging her. First the verbal "Hellos" stopped, and then he went from nods to nothing. So naturally, Elaine had to confront the guy.

rfisher, forget finding a new church. You should start your own church or religion. People will follow you to learn how you have such small trials and tribulations. First you complained about three days equaling 72 hours, which I can't do anything about because someone else created that system. I think it has something to do with the Earth's rotation. And now you create a thread about a volunteer greeter at a church not greeting you in the way you expect. It's barely a one-second encounter. Why don't you become a volunteer greeter and help the person by leading by example?

If you received a terse e-mail from someone, it was probably because the e-mailer couldn't believe how petty you were. It's possible the church is busy with more important concerns. You should thank your favorite deity that this all the misfortune you have.

Looks like someone removed the filling from historymike's paczki. What's funny are not the church supporters rushing in to defend the church. What's hilarious and equally predictable are the church naysayers rushing in to criticize the church. Thanks historymike for proving that point so quickly. You and rfisher have a lot in common on this topic: pointless whining.

How has Cedar Creek specifically harmed you, historymike? Was the soda machine not working on the day you went? Do you prefer the pipe organ over drums, guitars, and keyboard? Did they steal one of your dogs for some religious exercise, since that's what cults do you know? Did they think you were too smart to be brainwashed?

It's another Seinfeld episode. George got upset when a religious cult refused to recruit him.

"I merely saw an expensive imported car ..."

Imported from Detroit? (Damn, that's a good commercial.)

Hate to say it, but I think historymike gets the troll award for this thread. I expect better from HM. I'll blame the three-plus inches of new snow, although it's a photogenic snowfall.

Obviously, this thread is a prime candidate for the shit-bin, also known as the politics forum.

Oh, well, then you know all about it and what a terrible country it is. Nothing but desolate wastes and fierce beasts. And the poor little Oompa Loompas were so small and helpless, they would get gobbled up right and left. A Wangdoodle would eat ten of them for breakfast and think nothing of it. And so, I said, "Come and live with me in peace and safety, away from all the Wangdoodles, and Hornswogglers, and Snozzwangers, and rotten, Vermicious Knids."
Mr. Salt: Snozzwangers? Vermicious Knids? What kind of rubbish is that?
Willy Wonka: I'm sorry, but all questions must be submitted in writing.

Heh - I did stray wander saunter drive 60 miles an hour into Trollville, and jr may be correct about the snow being the causative factor. I have been grumbling about this unexpectedly significant frozen precipitation for 14 hours now. I fear that my early crocuses (croci?) might be dead, buried under the better part of two feet of shoveled snow.

My apologies for troll-like behavior.

Take heart, HistoryMike. Your crocuses aren't dead; they'll survive quite nicely. The crocus is used to weather like this.

First of all, the point of origin for this obtuse thread is likely to have all the validity of a trip through the looking glass. I'll grant that RFisher created a subtly neurotic story, but what I'm really curious about is just what it was about this story that got on HistoryMike's very last nerve and if RFisher did it on purpose or by accident.

Then there's our noble host, JR, who happily tolerates Ryan's jejune tantrums and allows Gary Groszewski to create one new account a month without impediment, yet chastises senior contributor HistoryMike with all the enthusiasm of a suburban housewife disposing of a cockroach on her kitchen floor. Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning?

Just why this whole thing wasn't ignored from the beginning intrigues me.

Jejune? Sorry I don't come here to see how "cute" I can write. Maybe you should send your stuff to Pitchfork. They are always looking for a few good pseudo intellectuals.

The bitchy so called 'greeter' was brought to their attention partly because they want to be known as a church that welcomes everyone. Like I said, I have been going there 7 years. Lee just preached a few weeks ago about how when he worked at Sears, every customer 'was right', and they never wanted to lose even one. I just find it ironic, and see some hypocrisy in his response.

As for you JR, I hope you're not a member there along with me. You display nothing of a Christian attitude or behavior, and if you're one of CedarCreeks 'pillars'. then maybe I really should move on to a REAL church.

Hockeyfan, the main point is getting her attention, it's just the 'I could care less' attitude of the Senior Pastor when something is brought to his attention. I'm not the only person that has complained about this greeter either. So you would think they would move her to cleaning duties, or something away from the general public, LOL. It's funny how Lee was willing to listen when I was putting money in the collection plate every Sunday.

When it comes down to it; would you REALLY say "Hello" or "Good Morning" to every single person that walks by you that day? THOUSANDS?????
YOu don't need to answer that, btw.It reminds me of a girl at work all hot under the collar because they never announced "Thanks" to all the people that bring in cookies for the kids. If thats why you are going to church - you may want to rethink your reasoning.

"As for you JR, I hope you're not a member there along with me. You display nothing of a Christian attitude or behavior ..."

So mister judgmental, you've been attending Cedar Creek for seven years, eh? That must be what's called a practicing Christian. Do you think your attitude here is welcoming to new attendees at any church? What verse in the Bible says it's important to complain about church greeters? You may be treading on the waters of hypocrisy, but I'll leave that for you to decide.

rfisher, you do realize that you and I are members of this Web site. Would it be possible for you to find a real message board elsewhere? If not, then you're still welcome here my brother.

I had to look up the word "pillar." I've been called a lot of things but never a pillar. I had to write that down in my notebook. Good one. Thanks, rfisher. Now I'll have to find a hat in the Roman Corinthian design, so I can broadcast my pillar status.

KOOK FIGHT!

So, let me get this straight: because someone didn't greet you at church in the morning, you have written the pastor twice about this complete non-issue. And he responded like any sane adult would have--essentially saying "I don't have time for this ridiculous bullshit" (that's how we say it in the non-church world).

Thinking back to my church-going days, I remember my pastor essentially spending his week going from this member's hospital bed to that member's deathbed to finding time for the youth group, the ladies club, the men's breakfast, the volunteer Saturdays, the regional pastor's meetings, and more to dealing with a non-existent budget to figure out how to pay the heating bill that month (we were a small church--something Cedar Creek doesn't have to worry about).

Point being--might it just be possible that somebody not greeting someone else at the church door is not even on his radar screen as an issue and your e-mails/letters caught him at a weak moment where he might exasperatedly say "be a goddamn grownup and deal with it"? He's a pastor, yes, but he's a human being first and I don't blame him at all for bursting sometimes. If he is any kind of pastor, he's dealing with a lot of shit. His assistant is a complete twat for forwarding unfiltered e-mails directly to you-- that should be addressed.

What about this: how 'bout you go right up to the person offending you, stick out your hand and say "Hi, I'm ________. It's so good to see you here today." You know-- be a reverse greeter. Take the bull by the horns--extend your hand in Christian fellowship. Break the ice. Take a chance. Perhaps find out that this person is intimidated by you or completely in love with you and didn't know how to say it. Maybe you remind this greeter of someone who hurt him/her years ago. Maybe it's not all about you.

Or continue to cry to "Big Daddy" and see what transpires. Doesn't seem to be working to well now.

Donate more money and they will be nicer to you!

madjack: my original point was just to groan about what looked like another one of those Cornerstone threads, with the site getting flooded with hundreds of comments by pro-church members.

Then I took the bait when one of this site's tools esteemed posters dredged up some old business. Never should have gone down that road, and I have only myself to blame for: a) wasting time on a church thread, especially one started by a new poster; b) posting a ill-considered snarky comment that became interpreted as an anti-CCC comment; and c) biting down on the proffered chum that dangled with a shiny lure.

A few more thoughts:

1. I will concede that rfisher has a point about greeters: their job is to make people feel welcome, whether they welcome people to WalMart, CedarCreek, or any other place where people gather (yes, I know that WalMart's greeters are employed in part to reduce shoplifting, but that is another story). Granted, this person is probably an unpaid volunteer, but if your job is to smile and make people welcome, then do it.

2. Oldhometown's comment caused milk to shoot out of my nose.

3. I have nothing whatsoever against CedarCreek, though admittedly the idea of serving coffee and soda during church goes against the more traditional (or severe) churches I have attended in my life. I do look skeptically at mega-churches that seem more concerned with the number of members than with the relevance or quality of the message. Is this the case with CedarCreek? Not sure. They have experienced rapid growth, but there are certainly nowhere near the insanity of the arena-like Lakewood Church levels. Personally, I get more from one-on-one conversations with fellow believers like madjack, who by the way is too modest to discuss the fact that he participates in ministries that engage in outreach programs to inmates. I derive little benefit from a one-size-fits-all sermon delivered to a large group, though a rousing chorus of "Holy, Holy, Holy" can usually get me fired up.

HistoryMike: You're still supposing that mister judgmental [credit to JR] is actually a member of CedarCreek. I contend that He/She/They have never seen the outside of CedarCreek, let alone the inside.

I liked JohnnyMac's comment the best. After that it's kind of a toss up between JR's So mister judgmental... which caused me to waste half of my morning bourbon and OldHomeTown and his opening line, So, let me get this straight... which proves that timing is everything.

Ryan: I have a solid relationship with Pitchfork. I won't send them my reviews and they won't send me any rejection notices. Seems to be working well so far...

Seriously, if this is the biggest problem you have in your life, You are doing quite well.

Shaddup and Go through a different door.

Here's a thought - walk up to that usher, put your hand out to shake his and say, "Good Morning and God Bless you!"

You know, like an adult. I guarantee he won't ignore you again. I will also crack up if you find out the guy is deaf or hard of hearing and just never heard you and was looking past you at someone else. Maybe he is clinically but not completely blind.

Maybe the usher knows you and doesn't like you and isn't as spiritually mature as you and prefers to just ignore you. Or maybe the usher doesn't like you and IS more matures and prefers to ignore you. Maybe the usher is sleeping with one of your relatives. Maybe he wants to sleep with you.

In the mean time, why don't you try out Cornerstone and just sit back and wait until the pastor gets arrested again.

Oldhometown's comment caused milk to shoot out of my nose.

What was really amazing was that HM wasn't even drinking milk at the time...

I'm not a Cedar Creek member, although I have heard their "All are welcome" message enough to think that that take welcoming, you know... seriously.

I'm in the process right now of writing a handbook for ushers and greeters for our decidely un-mega church. First thing? "Smile and greet everyone. Welcome the stranger. Look out for their comfort."

Looks like CC needs to retrain this greeter.

Or skip the greeting process and watch the whole service over the Web from somewhere else.

http://cedarcreek.tv/church-info/internet-campus/

You can self-greet.

Just a little sumpin' sumpin' concerning "mega-churches that seem more concerned with the number of members than with the relevance or quality of the message." They encourage attendees to seek out other churches. They tell them to try ones closer to their homes or perhaps one they have heard good things about. Lees main objective is to get unchurched people to church, period. So if CC started them on the route and they go elsewhere sobeit, he is quite content with that. I don't want to sound brainwashed, but after volunteering there a few years back I saw some really amazing things being done and I would hate for those to go unrecognized. So much more goes on beyond the sermons its indescribable. From random people walking in in the middle of the day in need of food or a place to stay to a single moms request for a utility to be turned back on. The list is truly endless and again, the books are open for all to see - at anytime. Not all Christians are evil and NONE are perfect. Okay - I feel better. :()