Public and Private-Sector Labor When it comes to cars, solidarity can prove elusive

Free Trade is a loser for American workers.

Most likely to be the understatement of the year on www.ToledoTalk.com.

As to the automobiles in the parking lot, there was a time when workers at a GM plant didn't dare drive anything to work that wasn't built by GM. The dirty secret was that about 60% of every vehicle rolling off a Detroit assembly line was imported from another country.

Our chief export in the US is the American Dollar. We have more wealth leaving the country than ever before, and while the cost of raw materials, labor and energy rises productivity falls. The disaster is upon us, and unless the labor unions begin to provide a solution instead of a problem, the labor unions will remain - the members will be unemployed.

While I shed a tear into my bourbon glass, let us all thank the King of the Moonbats, Slick Willy Clinton, for signing the NAFTA and starting us down the ten miles of bad road that terminates in foreclosure. While I'm at it, I'd also like to thank the Wingnuts hero of the decade, King George II, who accelerated the fall into economic depression while simultaneously scattering US military forces from Hell to breakfast so that it will take forever and three days to bring everyone home again.

NAFTA... conceived by Reagan, negotiated by Bush I, signed by Clinton and put into over drive by Bush II.

The war on the middle class continues...

Yes the Bush reign of terror closed 42,000 factories in his two terms. While everyone was dreaming of riches flipping McMansions the undermining continued till we hit the Wall Street induced Wall of financial disaster. What kills me are all the haters out there that can't see the big picture.

I know your passionate Wolfman and I respect that. How about instead of rallying about rights and blaming the Tea Party, Republicans and every other sworn enemy of organized labor you guys prove us all wrong. You have the opportunity through Government Motors to show all of us who "don't get it" just how special Unionized Labor is. Show us! Prove us wrong! Let's see that every company or entity that uses Union labor not only compete but become your shining statement about Union Labor Utopia. We are after all a Nation who loves to see a fighter, an underdog. Go out and kick ass, make the best cars ever!

Hey, how about all these teachers do their job better then they ever have before. Show us! Show every parent in every city just how great Unionized labor is at educating our children. Make us all believers. Seeing is believing.

Until then... your rallies and blame games are irrelevant. Trust me, I would be happy to support Union made products and education if you show us that you are worth our support. We will pay for a winner, we will pay for quality. We will not settle for junk.

I respect the people in the Blade article who do not automatically purchase an American Brand car because they are in a Union. Having any entity tell you who to vote for or what to buy creates ignorance.

Trust me Wolfman - I'll convert in a heartbeat when you guys start kicking ass and show us you are capable, provide value and are the best. and I really would love to see it happen. Until then... I'm an American - and as such I'll buy whatever the heck I want with my hard earned money.

DK - Great post. I would love to support more American products, but I will not over pay.

I wish we still had the world by the economic throat where we where the single source supplier, but I must live in 2011. Other countries will not overpay to support union labor when they can get the same product cheaper from India, China, Thailand. All the union protest/Bush hate doesn't answer the hard cold fact that other countries have beaten us at our own game.

None of you union supports can answer why Russia would pay more for a "union made" product than something cheaper from China. We now live in a global economy and no Micheal Moore (the folly of a rich man screaming at other richer men) or protesting the Kotch Brothers is going to change that.

I think its more along the lines of unions bought and paid for those democrats and they are angry that now that times have gone bad the politicians are looking to save their own asses before paying back the unions for their campaign money.

How can any of our domestic manufacturing compete in a global free market when our American values say that any household with two full time incomes, good employment reviews, and staying out of employment/legal trouble should be able to afford a house, a kid or two, two cars less than 15 years old, and be able to retire with 15 years left on their lives?

This is not asking too much of our people and our industries. We need to draw the lines at our national borders. If we do not protect our own wealth, we will never be able to preserve or create it. We need to only have free trade with economies very similar to our own. Strengthen the tariff systems that are already in place.

Examples: An english speaking person from India can get a job there doing customer service that pays the equivalent of about $50k per year. Chinese factory workers live mediocre apartment lives while sending a good chunk of their income back to their home villages, where it has considerable more buying power.

Both ends of the political spectrum have failed us miserably in this regard. The free market capitalists can sort it out inside our own borders, union or non-union. I don't care if they are unionized or not as long as they have adequate health and safety and can meet the goal I outlined above.

Germany has been very protective of their own trade, and have arguably the healthiest economy on the planet. Their economy singlehanded held up the EU during the recent economic disaster.

From Wolfman: What kills me are all the haters out there that can't see the big picture.

Name three.

There's plenty of blame to go around on this one, and it's easy to look in the rear view mirror and attach blame. Getting right to the point, just what has The Anointed One done to correct this situation? What has Himself tried to do?

I'm not being completely rhetorical here. As far as I'm aware, the answer is "Not a damned thing, because Obama likes NAFTA", but if I'm wrong and Obama really has been working to revoke NAFTA, why then just jump right in and tell me the how and when of it.

Almost no one at the federal level dares to oppose NAFTA because they will lose the majority of their campaign contributions, guaranteeing they won't be able to be re-elected. It's the same thing with financial regulations that actually means something.

Progressives and the radical left are very disappointed in Obama so far, but they all look at him as the lesser of two evils. He got their votes hook, line, and sinker and he will get them again because any serious contender will be further out of line with their values.

To me, NAFTA is the least of the problems. NAFTA doesn't cover China or India--two nations that have their eyes set on wealth and jobs at any cost (financial, environmental, or other). And thanks to our glorious leaders fiscal management, we can't do anything to stand up to China or tell them to set their currency to a market rate (see Donald Trump's comments on what China is doing to us).

NAFTA wasn't/isn't great. But I feel like repealing it is like taking a cup of crap out of a gallon bucket of crap. I guess it helps, but doesn't empty the still-stinking bucket.

Danneskjold said: “ Hey, how about all these teachers do their job better then they ever have before. Show us! Show every parent in every city just how great Unionized labor is at educating our children. ”

Why would they show you anything? Their compensation is not based on performance. Instead, their pay is based upon controlling the political process and denying it to the common taxpayer.

They will go down fighting and denying, but those are irrelevant, since they must go down at any rate. They will not fix the process since the process being broken only benefits them. The profession of "teacher" has long attracted immoral types who tolerate being paid for zero results. Only something catastrophic unseats people in such a situation. We need to fire them all and give the job over to the private sector, where the free market will only allow competent people back into the profession. The house has to burn down before it can be renovated.

Does GM still have those job banks?

Barfly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_bank#Criticism

"In December 2008, the UAW agreed to suspend the program as a concession to help U.S. automakers during the auto industry crisis."

If Mr. Moore is your hero you have already lost the fight.

Why has he not dontated his vast fortune to your cause? Did he pay extra taxes to reach 50 or 60 percent of his income paid to uncle sam? Your just foolish enough to follow his coat tails to the box office to fatten his bank accout. He's a master businessman, why by liberal logic you should hate him.

Ah, the heroic Michael Moore. Ironically, Michael Moore is a perfect example of the free, unregulated market. Consider: Moore was working as the editor for Mother Jones and was fired for insubordination. Moore sued for wrongful termination; Mother Jones paid off to avoid court. Moore took the cash and used it to make Roger & Me, the first in a long line of profitable 'documentaries', simultaneously starting his rise into the economic stratosphere he now shares with the same people Moore vilified in Roger & Me, and helping to popularize a new word: mockumentary. Moore's life is the very essence and epitome of capitalism, complete with a perceptible lack of ethics.

Conservatives (that would include Republicans, the political party that went to war with the Democrats back in 1861 over slavery - a contest the Democrats lost) criticize Moore's films for (charitably) a certain lack of accuracy, yet few Conservatives have ever criticized Moore for his rise to fame and fortune. In fact, I've heard a certain admiration for Moore, not just because he started with little and ended with much, but mainly because Moore achieved his success with the help, support and sweat of the Moonbats who have yet to realize that Michael Moore is a part of the group that the Moonbats regularly castigate as immoral, selfish and opportunistic.

There Wolfie, I've given you a new chew toy.

Wonder if his favorite book is also Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals. I just heard other day about the books opening page dedication to Lucifer as the first to rebel against the establishment.

You could almost substitute Glen Beck for Michael Moore in madjacks commentary ( with the exception of the law suit part). It's rumored that Beck and Fox might part company when Beck's contract is up in December. I think it's all hype. FOX wont kill their ratings cow, even though advertisers have pulled back. People love conspiracies and Beck seems to have an abundant supply. I wonder how long he can keep it up though. Eventually when none of the apocalyps come to fruition wont folks begin to get suspicious? Nah! I forget that his listeners dont have a strong relationship with facts.

The difference is that Glen Beck (don't watch his show or listen to his radio broadcast) doesn't masquerade as "the good guy" and that he is somehow saving the world through his programing. He knows he is a goober and knows he gets paid off being a goober and has no qualms about it. Gold line anyone?

In a Union policy world MM would still be making student films for whatever the union screen makers guild would pay him. He would not be rewarded for self promotion or being better than other at his craft, because he would want to be "fair" and would have to give the lions share of his movie profits back to the community so everyone would get their share. I think I heard our President say "at some point you are rich enough?"

GB is not worth the time spent watching him but your a fool if you think this was nothing more than promotion for Moore's next movie, and he rides people like Wolfboy all the way to the bank. You save the world while he counts his money.

Rich men yelling about other rich men, most laughable moment of this entire thing.

Madjack: You realize that the terms "Republicans" and "Democrats" from 150 years ago have no connection to the current meanings or current policy positions of the today's political parties, right?

It is moronic at worst, or intellectually dishonest at best, to give the Republican Party of 2011 credit for "going to war over slavery" in 1861, just because they both used the same party name.

And, on a side note, when you post garbage like that, you lose all credibility in your other posts.

hmmm dbw8906 - Didn't Beck proclaim a few months back that God was revealing His plan through him?
http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201004200020

Don't you remember his rally to restore honor to the United States? The one that just happened to occur on the same date as MLK's? Does that sound like someone who doesn't take themselves seriously?

Although I prize related distractions, let's get back to the topic, whose due was not sufficiently paid this time around.

Brainswell said: “ How can any of our domestic manufacturing compete in a global free market when our American values [and so on]. ”

It's because those American values are highly overpriced, and the price of those must drop. Starting with your house. You can't keep inflating the price of assets beyond what people can pay for them.

GZ again we agree!!! While I'm a UAW guy I know Free Trade is a loser for Americans. We've seen the American nightmare accelerate over the last decade. We lost 48,000 factories employing 100s of 1000s of Middle class workers who are now the forgotten. Global trade is bringing our standard of living down. This is now affecting many who thought they were untouchable. Have you noticed since the fall election Obama has given up the fight. His speeches sound hollow with no conviction. He knows the country has been led down a dangerous road and powerful interests will not change the course were on.

By "powerful interests" do you mean all the banks that donated to Obama's campaign? You know the ones who gave over 10 million dollars to his campaign? You know the ones he promised to slap on the hand with the ruler?

He was bought and sold by them before he ever made his first teleprompter experience.

dbw8906 yes you could say that!

You realize that the terms "Republicans" and "Democrats"...

Yes, JohnnyMac, I realize that in 150 years philosophies of political parties tend to change. I wrote it to spin Wolf up a little; you may note that he's studiously ignoring my jibe.

It is not intellectually dishonest to give the Republican party credit for going to war over slavery; it's history. The Republicans did this for good or ill. Anyone reading my comment about this and not taking it in contest has their own problems. I can't help them.

I don't worry about my credibility, lost or gained. Why should I? There are few ramifications to posting outrageous missives on ToledoTalk - just ask Gary. Or LimeDrops. I kind of miss good old LimeDrops - the man had a definite opinion on everyone.