Shop at WAL MART? Then you are a socialist. Or whatever word the Tea-Party is demonizing today.

I have seen the WalMart goons forcing people to shop at their stores. At the one on Glendale near my house they actually direct traffic into the parking lot and escort people into the stores and force them to spend money on items they could certainly pay more for elsewhere. It's un American. It's obvious that some of the union stickered cars don't want to be there because they are made to spend the most and have cart loads of goods forced on them. This has to stop.

I have never spent 1 cent in that shit hole and never will. All you haveto do is educate yourself about not only how the employees are treated, but what their long term effects are in communities and its a no-brainer not to patronize them. Especially since all that "savings" is minimal if anything.

I fully support the free market, but I also believe we have the freedom to spend our money where we choose.

Free money for "the poor" is just as wrong as free money for companies that move into town and get a tax break just because. These large tax breaks have been the death of mom & pop stores that built the community.

Vote with the only think the matters, your wallet!

People dumb enough to support public sector unions and the members themselves are really reaching with this type of rhetoric.

You are reaching to find anything and everything to bash the tea party, instead of debating what you are supporting.

I don't shop at Wallmart, but mostly for I have alternatives closer to my residence.

The scams public sector unions have committed upon the citizens of this state and nation, hopefully will be greatly reduced or completely eliminated.

To gain support and sympathy from others you have improperly labeled yourselves "working people and middle class". However, actually your bloated contracts have caused a relatively large share of the budget mess.

"bloated contracts have caused a relatively large share of the budget mess"

Do you do standup 6th_floor? I'm having trouble breathing I'm laughing so hard at that statement!

Did all of these "bloated contracts" cause the budget mess of the 90s? That's right, there was no budget mess in the 90s!

Did the Union heads bet it all on risky securitized mortgages and lend billions of dollars to people they knew who couldn't afford them, resulting in the near meltdown of the housing industry? Said meltdown reduced the tax base, which is where the "budget mess" really came from.

Did the Unions and public sector employees sell us on two feel good wars that resulted in the Federal deficit skyrocketing due to increases in defense spending?

Walmart knows no boundaries, and has no loyalties. They have reeked havoc on our domestic industry by offering all the third world has to offer at the expense of domestic manufacturing. They have spent millions challenging laws that would be used against them in the areas of imports, labor, and finances. They have set the bar as low as they can get it for treatment of their employees. Instructing your employees on how to best obtain government benefits instead of offering them viable options and incentives essentially amounts to a government subsidy.

Keep on kissing the feet of the people that are standing on your back, they have you convinced one day you'll have your "American dream" too.

Brainswirl, I had you in the top 3 of posters that would first reply and you didn't disappoint.

People that started the tea party likely were AGAINST these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and they were certainly against bank bailouts. Try harder next time.

The pension liabilities to you and your flock are going to bankrupt the state and nation if not drastically reduced.

Guess what's next? Either the bond rates rise, further tanking the economy/state revenue, taking your goodies away, or it's done via the legislature.

Additionally, your flock used that increased credit provided by the banks you despise. What did your flock use it for? To build homes far into the suburbs that you now can't afford to maintain. Furthermore, your pals who call themselves "working people" leveraged future earnings, home, whatever else they could borrow against, to purchase a higher lifestyle to live well beyond their means.

You also voted in a bunch of fools and/or crooks and schemed things like annual pay raises (REGARDLESS HOW THE OVERALL ECONOMY WAS FARING), constructed pension systems that were said to be unsustainable and now have proven to be such.

You folks are so delusional, you actually believe events such as pay freezes are concessions.

Yes, many of us who had to remain frustrated while we warned and watched during the construction of your house of cards, are quite pleased to see all of it falling apart.

... <YAWN...> Union folk complaining about Walmart again.... Thanks for being so concerned about all of us "Exploiters" and I am sure the "Exploited" appreciate all your concern. <Yawn> Just curious though... Why is it always Walmart? Did they take that much of your Market share? If so... just keep proving that you are better and provide more value. You don't have to badmouth the competition. In the business world that is very unattractive. Just tell us about your strengths and what value you bring to me... the consumer. I'm an adult (and an American) and as such I'll choose to shop wherever I want.

Complaining about Walmart again... please.... Is this part of the new campaign? Was this is the "get the word out memo?"

Yes, everybody knows you can only complain about something once. (and I am not union, just realistic)

"People that started the tea party likely were AGAINST these wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and they were certainly against bank bailouts. Try harder next time."

That's one of the biggest bullshit lines I've read on TT.

It's not bullshit. The only tea party you know of is the current state of the tea party - this was originally a party organized by grassroots supporters of Ron Paul - who were and still are against going into Iraq and Afghan. The Ron Paul tea party has been hijacked by idiots like Sarah Palin...

Sorry, forgot to mention the bailouts part of it.

The original tea party was primarily built upon the state of the economy. The bailouts were of course ridiculous and Ron Paul spoke against it many many times in congress and went head-to-head against Bernake several times.

So once again, what 6thFloor said is not bullshit at all...

Wikipedia --> Tea Party movement --> Background and history

If you buy the new, not-assembled-in-the-USA iPad 2 at Walmart, you're part of satan's army.

Count me among those who never shop at at WalMart.

I've never spent one dollar at that place, and never will.

I should have written "conservatives" rather than "tea party", I suppose.

http://gawker.com/#!5782293/neocons-write-nice-letter-asking-obama-for-war-in-libya

Way to be Holland and Johnnymac. Lets meet up at a Kroger and piss away our extra 40 cents knowing we did the right thing!!!

i have a question for the anti-walmart posters.

do you have the same feelings about target?

The flip side of the coin is: Let's save 40 cents and employ a Chinese worker at slave wages and put my fellow American out of work!

And I don't have any feelings toward Target one way or the other.

I recently read that employees at Kroger's do not have to join a Union. In fact I also read that the workers who do not join the Union receive the exact same pay and benefits but do not have union dues deducted from their weekly pay checks. I was just curious if anyone knew if this was true.

"do you have the same feelings about target?

As a matter of fact, yes.

I just ran a quick report out of curiosity. In 2005 I did almost all my grocery shopping at Kroger. In 2010 it is about 40% Costco, 30% Walmart, 20% Kroger and 10% other. I spent 12% less in 2010 then I did in 2005!

I know that sounds like pointless dribble on this topic but my point is that WalMart is essential! Why? Look at the public sector where Unions have a monopoly. You have to force Unions in positions to compete otherwise you will see absolute poor workmanship and results and higher prices with NO regard for the consumer. Thank God for the Japanese automakers! Remember all those great cars at the end of the 70's and early/early 80's? What do you think food prices would do if all stores were Union run?

Walmart, as a consumer I say "Thank you!" and thank you to all industry that refuses to be bullied and strong armed by Unions and their shady tactics.

I guess some people are willing to spend a little more to patronize the places that treat their employees decently. See some people actually care about other people and thier community, there are some people that aren't so selfish to think of only themselves, union or not.

I also shop at Meijer and only 2 of their stores are union.

Danne I ussally agree with you on most points but your ""Thank you!" and thank you to all industry that refuses to be bullied and strong armed by Unions and their shady tactics" - but what do you have to say when mom/pop stores are forced out of business by a Wal-Mart who pays zero to any taxes and they are left with the burden to pay?

As a small (very small) business owner maybe my perspective is a bit different, and I'm am for lower business taxes but Wal-Mart often pays ZERO taxes for many years. That does nothing but sift the burden to small business and the taxpayer.

"Hope your kids are learning Chinese in school."

Why? The Chinese are learning English. So is India. It would be nice if our kids also learned English in school.

Some stats from a four-year-old video presentation

• Soon, China is expected to be the number one English-speaking country in the world.
• The 25% of the population in China with the highest IQs is greater than the total population of North America.
• In India, it's the top 28%.
• Translation for teachers: they more honors kids than we have kids.
• If you took every single job in the U.S. today and shipped it to China, it still would have a labor surplus.
• 2006 college graduates
  • U.S. - 1.3 million
  • India - 3.1 million
  • China - 3.3 million
• 100% of the 2006 college graduates in India spoke English.

Remember, the Chinese are the new owners of the restaurants at The Docks and possibly the Marina District and more property in Toledo. Let's be nice to our new pals.

DBW8906 - I actually was a partner in a small family business that was hit extremely hard by the recession. The players that were still treading waters a few years ago in our industry were the big dogs who had some advantages in technology and efficiency that made them extremely competitive and often the choice of customers who needed to cut cost. I've been on the seat where I had to defend higher prices in the name of service (actually sitting across from a lot of executives at Fortune 500 companies). I wanted to tell my customers that "we are a local family business", "we are good people in the community"... Often I would go home at night mad at customers who made choices purely on price.

I had to come to grips with the new economy and competition. People weren't going to just pay a premium for our services because we were "family owned." In some ways I could be very vindictive and spiteful against the WalMart's, the Big Guys etc... I choose not to be. It's the USA. We compete.

In reference to their paying 0 taxes for a few years - I accept that WalMart has an accounting team that will look for every advantage it can to reduce costs as much as possible. Lean, lean, lean.... Use every legal course they can. Cut throat. I don't necessary like it but I certainly wish that aggressive commitment to cost control and finding every avenue of saving was incorporated in the public sector by our government.

Sometimes I just want to throw a comment out to feed to the wolves which is the present case with the WalMart items. Personally, I don't love their stores but I shop where I find value - sometimes that's Kroger's, sometimes WalMart, often at Costco.... In reality I am a person who should be very upset at large businesses having been a small business owner. But... Competition is what it is... and I think in the end it's a great part of being an American even when it hurts.

I agree with your statement but what I pointing too (should have made it clearer) was cities giving away the farm to Wal-Mart to come to town with zero tax plans for years upon years while taxes are raised on established business.

I understand I will never be cost competitive with Mega Corp X and I have to sell my sell on level of service, I get that. But the reason Wal-Mart can be so cost competitive is the sweat heart tax deals they get while the rest of us have to pay our share and theirs.

Translation for teachers: they more honors kids than we have kids.

I think that missing verb is "have"--they "have" more honors kids than we have kids.

The Chinese are not f##king around. It is their mission to have the comfortable lives the West has enjoyed for decades and they will use everything at their disposal to get it (education, trade imbalances, devalued currency, etc.). Are they using Wal-Mart, Target, every big-box "get it cheap" store to strengthen their competitive advantage? Absolutely. But what can we do now--nearly all the tech manufacturing is over there, not here. And this board wouldn't exist if we all typed on American-made computers.

Quick story on education dedication: I got a look at a classmate's textbook when I was in grad school--she was from Xian (China). The textbook was some pretty complex English even for me, obviously a native speaker. In her book, I saw that she had taken the time to translate each word into a Chinese character. Then she could read and memorize the information. It must have taken her hours upon hours with a translation dictionary, not to mention the time to actually study.

Show me the American student who works like that? They are very few.

Interesting how so many accept the profit-based mentality that corporations and media have pushed upon them. More bonuses for bailed-out banks are ok, but no fight left for the middle class.

WRONG:
"tea party - this was originally a party organized by grassroots supporters of Ron Paul"

what's the difference between target and walmart? the only real difference is a pretty presentation by target. they offer very similar pay, but walmart's benefit package is better. they both share a love for foreign suppliers and have similar impact on local business/ communities. neither has a union presence.

if you whine about walmart, you should also whine about target.

they are nearly one and the same. while a possible new walmart store in a community sparks rage, target stores are generally showered with love.

i don't get it.

""do you have the same feelings about target?"

As a matter of fact, yes."

ditto.

they are nearly one and the same. while a possible new walmart store in a community sparks rage, target stores are generally showered with love. i don't get it.

Perhaps examining political contribution history explains why:

Walton family (Walmart): At least 80%+ of money supporting the Republicans. Source

Target Corporate: 28% monies support Democrat, 22% Republican, 50% non-partisan. Source

As with everything, follow the cash....

For groceries and daily living items such as soaps, paper towels etc., I shop local independents, such as Sautters and Kazmaiers and also quite a bit at Costco. I feel good about that. It's costs me some more at the independents at times and at times its actually cheaper. Costco is always a value, and though not local they do treat their employees well. Chasing that supposed sale on paper towels at WalMart, that isn't really a savings at all if you shop around, is for the uninformed masses or those who delude themselves into thinking its the, uh, "American Way". That notion made me snort my coffee out my nose.

Let me put it another way. Savings 6 cents on a role of paper towels at WalMart is decidedly un-American if it aids WalMart in forcing its suppliers to shift production overseas and costing Americans their jobs.

Target may get product overseas, but thats where the comparisons end. Looks at all they do for communities as opposed to WalMart. They also do not leave millions of vacant square footage about the country as WalMart does with each move. They also carry "mall goods" over food and sundries that most mom and pops carry. They also dont take vendors into small deabte rooms to force their prices down nor do they make their corporate workers work without windows (seems they feel thats a distraction). The list, goes on and on...

DBW8906 - I understood the tax premise. I think for me to make a really good argument pro or con I would need a lot of information. Many businesses receive tax initiatives so I can't blame WalMart for exhausting resources to uncover any possible tax initiatives they can derive. Many times those tax initiatives are tied to promises to employ X amount of local workforce if I am correct. The information I am curious about is what are the specific details of any tax deal that Walmart, say on Glendale Avenue... received in comparison to any tax deal that Kroger, in the Glendale area received. I think I recall Carty giving some type of inventive to FoodTown many moons ago to build at the now defunct Secor Road location.

Your point is valid and I see that but without knowing all the other tax deals out there it is hard to respond or vilify one party over another.

From OldHomeTown: The textbook was some pretty complex English even for me...

Do you have any idea how much self-control it takes to resist this opportunity?

DBW8906 made a good point about the tax break. Those breaks are given to any big box store or chain that opens in Our Fair Gravel Pit by our elected officials, some of whom should be in prison. The local entrepreneurs can't compete and close up shop, then a few years later when the profits aren't large enough to satisfy the corporate deity the chain closes up as well, leaving a gigantic empty concrete box with glass walls and no vendor in sight for the local community. This is what happens in Toledo, and it isn't helping Toledo.

Toledolen_ sniped: That's one of the biggest bullshit lines I've read on TT.

------------

As a few posters thankfully already pointed out to you it's fact and not bs.

You probably really didn't know, since the msm did it's best in 2008 to either dismiss RP supporters as tin foil hat nuts or completely kept his ideas far away from front-page news.

Now, it's as if Rush Limbaugh, Beck, McCain and Palin supporters started the organization and people like toledolen_ believe it. Somehow, Palin has been crowned leader of the tea party and Ron Paul still is hardly mentioned. Msm sort of did the same thing with Ross Perot in the mid 90's. Just about everything Perot said was correct and what Ron Paul says is correct as well.

From the link JR posted:

More recently, the anniversary of the original Boston Tea Party was commemorated by Republican Congressman Ron Paul supporters who held a fund raising event for the 2008 presidential primaries advocating an end to fiat money and the Federal Reserve System, disengaging from foreign entanglements in Iraq and Afghanistan, and upholding States' rights.

tm2 writes : I guess some people are willing to spend a little more to patronize the places that treat their employees decently. See some people actually care about other people and their community, there are some people that aren't so selfish to think of only themselves, union or not.

I do only care about myself. There is no pretension in my response. I worked hard for my dollars. I would never rob a man of his dignity by giving him something he does not earn. That is the level of my compassion. I trade my earnings for his labor and in other times I trade my labor for another man’s earnings. If I feel the deal is not fair I do not make the exchange.

Immorality and degradation arise when you divert from this premise – look only to communities where giving occurs with nothing or little asked (think Detroit) That is the lowest form of abuse that can occur…

6th_Floor - you must have missed my above post:
"I should have written "conservatives" rather than "tea party"

I have a feeling that most of the people that shop at Walmart vote Democratic.How ironic is that?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26439307/Wal_Mart_Shoppers_Prefer_McCain_Target_Shoppers_Obama

This article was interesting:

http://www.campaignsandelections.com/publications/campaign-election/2009/january-2008/targeting-retail-shoppers

ryan, i think you're very wrong. unions think you're wrong, such as the ufcw. it looks as though you have a few like-minded posters that think you're wrong as well. the similarities are there and they're very real.

toledolen and tm2, why do you dislike target or have the same feelings towards them as you do walmart?

Because in reality Target isn't much different. Walk through a Target and pick up anything that's cheap off the shelf, turn over the packaging and look at the back. It's all mini-brands, owned by Target, and manufactured in China.

It's hard to manufacture in the US (I'm not naive), but not impossible and some companies manage to do it and still be successful. Now my MacBook Pro and iPad were made in China, along with a lot of other objects I own but at least I make an effort. When I pick up some shiney pretty thing off a shelf I look at it and think is this something I really need? Can I purchase this thing differently? From a local or at least an American source? Maybe I can get a nicer version of it from an antique store?

Maybe I can get a nicer version of it from an antique store?

Or a garage or estate sale...

Exactly.

So like you have this guy being totally epic, yet getting comment like he's being a "wack job". Wow, I guess my great-grandparents were "wack jobs" then. WTF?

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2011/03/17/Councilman-s-tree-tap-yields-sticky-situation.html

and then you have this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jennifer-grayson/eco-etiquette-organic-on_b_836758.html

A woman trying to make a week's worth of meals be organic on the average food stamp funds. 1 in 7 Americans are on foodstamps? Really? Way to go "trickle down!"

Maybe some of those food stamp people should make a go at growing their own food ala Steve Steele. If he's not a positive role model then I don't know who is. Of course, be prepared to be called a "wack job".

So it's the city's sap? And in tapping the tree he stole it from the city?

Then I think he should take the city to court for the city's tree littering on his private property. $500 fine for each leaf. And if the city won't do anything with their leaves and leave them on his property, the city should be fined for illegal dumping too.