Downtown Parking Is A SCAM

It seems like there would be a reasonable solution other than making a current, long-time customer go on a waiting list for a monthly pass.

(Side note - they have a waiting list for a monthly pass?!?)

When I worked at HCR Manorcare, my monthly parking pass went through payroll deduction. It was nice, in that I didn't have to worry about dealing with it every month myself. (Also the company paid for a portion of it - I don't know if they still handle it that way. It has been several years since I worked there.)

I lucked out too. When I worked down in Four Seagate, my work provided a free parking pass for the garage under the building.

There are about 0.5 square miles in Toledo where parking rules are regularly enforced.

Downtown.

I'm still somewhat surprised that there's a waiting list for monthly passes anyhow.

Are the all lots that full during weekday business hours? Seems unlikely, considering all the talk about business leaving downtown!

(I still work downtown, but we have our own parking. I don't really see the paid lots during business hours.)

HCR does still pay half the monthly fee and my sister has the other half pay roll deducted. No hassles.

I'm still somewhat surprised that there's a waiting list for monthly passes anyhow.

Yeah, me too. Wait until the latest round of layoffs...

Kwik Parking and the Downtown Parking Authority have killed more businesses downtown and helped to stymie any sort of new development.

Downtown Parking Authority: another entrenched bureaucracy that contributes nothing, is inflexible as hell, is staffed with incompetents with double digit IQ's and "authoritah", and stifles any sort of economic activity. Life in the big city I guess...

And people honestly sit on this chat board and wonder why more businesses are not in downtown Toledo anymore.

Maybe Annie needs to make a carpooling buddy who works at HCR Manorcare. ;)

Also, forget about free parking during lunch hours. DPA is killing that AND enforcing meters until 6pm. The downtown business owners met with them and were told that it is a "done deal". Didn't pay any attention to the local business owners and didn't give any rationale.

Detroit jr. Last one out............

Newbie, where did you hear this? I'm surprised this isn't mentioned in any of the papers.

The problem with downtown on-street parking is that if they didn't have parking meters, downtown employees would hog the spaces all day and there would be no on-street parking at all, even if you'd be willing to pay for a space. That leaves the pay lots. And, face it, they're in business to make money.

There are plenty of places to park for free downtown, and you just have to walk a few blocks from your car to where you're going. Over by the Erie Street Market and thereabouts is a lot of spaces. But nobody in Toledo wants to walk more that a few steps. It's easier to complain.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to walk by myself daily to and from the Erie Street Market to the other end of downtown either.

I'm not unwilling to do a lot of walking - I've been walking 20-30 miles a week in preparation for the Komen 3-Day walk anyhow. But I'd be concerned about walking that route by myself at the times I'd be coming & going from work.

(My employer provides parking anyhow, so that's not a concern for me. But I was thinking more about Annie's situation.)

Upso - two reps, one a DPA board member and the other from ParkSmart came to Downtown Latte a few weeks back to meet with the concerned business owners about the announcement they had made earlier. I didn't attend, but my husband did. He said the DPA people basically told the owners that Toledo was the only city in the world that didn't have 24/7 parking enforcement and laughed at the owners when they said it would hurt business. I believe there will be a petition to the DPA circulating soon.

ok yeah, I was aware of that meeting but wasn't aware it was set in stone. Thanks for the update.

From my understanding, in addition to the hours of operation changes, they will be (eventually) installing digital meters that allow for credit cards, which might actually make it easier to park all day on the streets while avoiding tickets.

One big pet peeve of mine, is the limitation to how long you can park at the meters. I had a meeting at 1 govt center yesterday, and all of the meters around the building only allow for 1 hour of parking at a time. having to run outside every 45 minutes to feed the meter sucks! :)

I heard about the credit card meters as well. At least I can avoid the tickets I get when I forget to run out with my 4 quarters every hour! Lord know how much money they've made off me. I didn't even get a thank you card!

I used a credit card meter for the first time earlier this month in New Orleans. It only allowed for a max of three hours.

Mom2, sounds great, but I work 8:30 to 5:30. Don't know how that would jibe with your hours.

I'm not at HCR anymore - still have parking downtown, but it wouldn't be as close to your work. (I'm more on the outskirts of downtown now.)

Not that I would be opposed to the idea in general, but right now I've temporarily adapted my work schedule to fit my husband's hours. My "normal" hours would be between 8-8:30 to 5ish, but I don't know when I'll be back on a normal schedule.

Newbie also added on March 24, 2011 :

July 20, 2011 - Toledo Blade - Officials weigh end to free lunchtime parking

Since other cities do not offer free lunchtime parking, Toledo should act like other cities, and we'll change our name to Other City, Ohio.

Wasnt that's Carty's modus operandi?

If it's not meant to generate more revenue, then why do it? I wish they would just grow a pair and tell us it's because they want more money.

They mention the lunch hour change but why is that you think they fail to have an explination for changing the enforcment to go to 6 pm rather than 5? Want to go to eat downtown after work, or go to a bar before the Mud Hens game, get ready to pay up no more free parking for you.

every downtown organization including the parking authority is the same 4 or 5 people, each sitting on each others board and acting in collusion. and good luck getting accurate meetings minutes or a list of board members. and they always find a way to profit from their organizations with little success for the downtown overall.

they knew business owners would park in front of their own store when they created the rule for free lunch time parking? they discussed it... what changed?

Definitely should be free after 5PM. Certain areas in downtown Detroit charge until 6pm. When going to events up there always double check the signs or you'll end up on TV show Parking Wars

Take a moment out of your day to send an email to City Council members registering your disgust with this proposed plan.

These are the "at-large" council members email addresses: phillip.copeland@toledo.oh.gov, rob.ludeman@toledo.oh.gov, joe.mcnamara@toledo.oh.gov, george.sarantou@toledo.oh.gov, steven.steel@toledo.oh.gov, adam.martinez@toledo.oh.gov

And I added the address for our district council member, too.

Sorry, that last sentence didn't make sense... in my email I CC'ed my districts council member as well and the "at-large" members.

The free parking idea was a half-decent one, but the window is too wide--of course it was open to abuse by employees.

If you work the lunch rush, you get downtown by 10:30, pay 50 cents, then free parking through 2PM...about 30-45 minutes after everything slows down to a halt because the lunch rush is over. Maybe you'll already be heading home for a break between lunch/dinner rush by 2PM.

I'd propose they narrow "free lunch parking" by half--make it 11:45AM-1:15PM...you know..."lunch hour"...with a little spill over on either side.

Charging after 5PM is just stupid. That needs to be stopped. Pennywise and pound-foolish as the old saying goes...

OHT, that would make too much sense to do that.

A few questions:

1) When they say revenue will increase, what is their estimate? Can they separate it out between meters and tickets?

2) I assume that the "Parking Police" did not work during that time, or was greatly reduced, what is the cost of more of them on the street?

3) What is the cost to replace the signs downtown?

What else am I missing???

Steve Steel is the only council member who has replied to my email so far. I wanted to share this tidbit in case anyone is interested in attending the meeting.

"Thanks for your email. As you may know, this proposal came from the Bell administration, not any member of Council. At our meeting yesterday we were told "business owners" were in favor of it. I pressed the issue, asking for specific examples, and could get none. The earliest it could come to a vote is next Tuesday.

We will address this issue at a committee meeting tomorrow, Thursday, 7.21.11. Public comment will be crucial at that time.

Thanks again. Contact me with any additional concerns!"

I am a downtown business owner, and i am not in favor of this.
To that point, I just emailed council with my thoughts on the matter. This is BS.

"At our meeting yesterday we were told "business owners" were in favor of it."

Something similar was mentioned in today's Toledo Blade article :

That seems a bit counter to what Newbie posted here back in March:

• Mar 23, 2011 - "Also, forget about free parking during lunch hours. DPA is killing that AND enforcing meters until 6pm. The downtown business owners met with them and were told that it is a "done deal". Didn't pay any attention to the local business owners and didn't give any rationale."

• Mar 24, 2011 - "... the DPA people basically told the owners that Toledo was the only city in the world that didn't have 24/7 parking enforcement and laughed at the owners when they said it would hurt business."

every downtown business owner i've talked to is against it.

What does "many business owners" mean? Two, three? It's irrational to believe that downtown business want their customers to have to pay for lunch parking. What Ludeman said is nuts. They're looking for revenue either from parking money or from tickets. Or maybe the Parking Authority is demanding more revenue. Saying it's because businesses want it is a crazy and dishonest way to leverage more bucks out of the public. AND hurt downtown business.

I believe in fact it is just two or three.

From my understanding, much of this came from some businesses close to Frickers getting angry because some Frickers employees were abusing the free parking during lunch.

If in fact that's true, it's an absurd reason for policy change.

the squeaky wheel gets the grease! you owners need to squeak louder! :)

Nana, my take on this is that it doesn't matter at all what owners squawk about. The gubment does what it wants and that's a fact. Business owners are treated like Scheisse.

“The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing”

From councilman Steel's e-mail to toledolen_ posted above:

I guess the concerned comments expressed by business owners back in the spring were not crucial.

Unless I missed it, today's (July 20) Blade article does not mention tomorrow's (July 21) mid-afternoon council committee meeting. Today's Blade article says councilman Ludeman "plans to hold an economic development committee hearing on the proposal." Is Ludeman planning a different meeting from tomorrow's?

From the event calendar at the City of Toledo website for Thursday, July 21, 2011:

Economic Development and H.R., I.T. & Finance Committees

Any business that's for this doesn't want customers. Maybe its office people that want more places to park.

i know people dont want to hear it, but i see it all the time working downtown. they are feeding those meters until lunch time and then its free until they leave for the day. you may think thats fair because they paid for the time parking, but that was not the intention of free lunch time parking. how can you complain about lack of growth downtown and then not realize that not having inviting parking for people at lunch is not a great way to promote said growth? i pay for parking everyday; what makes restaurant employees exempt?

I don't think I have ever had a problem parking at lunch time downtown.
Question - Do you have to pay if you park in the street after 5:30 pm? I thought it was free.

From today's Blade story:

So other cities are 24/7. Their argument is we should be like other cities, but they are not suggesting 24/7?

I give up.

Damn, wish I would have posted my prediction earlier. I knew it was only a matter of time before Ryan posted his standard troll response.

im a troll because i dont agree with you? dont take a minute to think about what i said, just call me a name. well, how about you go fuck yourself? i have had a rough day and your meaningless dribble looks best on your tjmaxx shirt. hag.

yikes

Earmuffs !!!

How much of this intitiative is from the downtown parking lot owners and their influence on city council? First, it was the crackdown on "unlicensed" parking lots a few months ago, and now it is the elimination of the free lunch hours.

I guess the parking lot owners haven't increased their profits enough lately, even though it appears that they have laid-off several of the workers that used to man the booths at the lots and replaced them with money-taking machines.

The below is from Steve Steels Facebook page. If you are a biz owner, work downtown, or simply spend time downtown, Please send him an email -- cc'ing the others before 2 pm today so that he may read aloud your views during the meeting.

Steve Steel
This proposal came from the Bell administration, not Council. It is to eliminate the free 11-2 parking meters. There is a hearing on the proposal tomorrow, Thursday, 7.21.11 at 2 PM in Council chambers. Public comment will be taken at that time. If you can't make it, please email me your comments: steven.steel@toledo.oh.gov. The earliest it can be voted on is next Tuesday.

When a politician says the change is not about producing more revenue, that's how you know the change is truly about producing more revenue.

Some numbers from yesterday's Blade article :

More money is made from violations than from meters. Ending the free lunchtime metered parking should create a nice boost in violations revenue. I wonder if the city will negotiate a new contract with the parking authority that calls for the city to receive more than $725,000 per year. But none of this is about generating more revenue. It's somehow for the children and the environment.

Instead of raising the price to park at the meters, the government, (the one of the people, by the people, and for the people) should lower the rates at the meters by 50%. This would force the parking lot owners to lower their monthly prices, and both moves would actually encourage more businesses to move downtown.

Who are these business owners? Do we have any names or are we supposed to just take the DPA and city's word for it? Another question, how does some bullshit agency like the DPA have so much pull? Who's stroking who on this deal?

hunkytown, i received this email (as part of a group email to warehouse district association people) in regards to this parking issue:

There was a meeting several months ago at Downtown Latte in which representatives from the Parking Authority were present. The elimination of free parking from 11-2 in the warehouse district was opposed 100% by those business and residents in attendance.

Prior to that meeting, the Parking Authority conducted a question and answer session on the same topic at the same location. The outcome was the same, 100% in opposition to the elimination of free parking from 1-2 in the warehouse district.

The problems identified to make the argument for the elimination of downtown free parking is isolated in the area around Government Center and Toledo Blade building. Don't punish the many other businesses in downtown and the warehouse district.

There are many solutions to that limited issue that will not be punitive to our customers and businesses.

Please express your opposition to this strong arm tactic to benefit a few at the expense of many heavily invested residents and small businesses.

Just got this forwarded on...

"Update: I received 37 total messages about the Bell administration's proposed change, and while I couldn't read all 37 messages into the record, all 37 opposed the change. I forwarded all messages to all other council members and gave highlights at committee meeting. In committee I just moved to refer the proposal back to the administration, effectively killing it. There was no opposition from any of the 8 members present. It should be a dead issue next Tuesday. Thanks for your participation in the democratic process!

Steve Steel"

I say pull all the meters out, free parking on the street. Fire the meter readers. I think it would be a wash in the end, except for the increase downtown business traffic.

From the Parksmart website about the Downtown Toledo Parking Authority:

Maybe the business people supporting the parking meter change are on the DTPA board.

Toledo City Councilman George Sarantou is a member of the Downtown Toledo Parking Authority Board of Directors, and he wants to eliminate free lunchtime parking.

Again from yesterday's Blade article

George's comment seems misleading when compared to the e-mail upso received :

So glad my employer has its own parking.

But kind of bummed about the lunch hour thing - if we're getting in the car to drive to lunch, its just as close to drive away from downtown as it is to drive TO downtown.

At least the Docks and Grumpy's have their own parking too. :)

P.S. Its not that I'm worried about putting some change in the meter while I eat a quick lunch - I'm just questionning the rationale for making the change.

Maybe cut it to 12-1 for lunch hour parking. Give the meter readers the authority to identify and ticket people abusing the system. Its not too hard to spot people doing this.

Well, after today's meeting it looks like nothing will come of this and free parking during lunch will remin the norm. Which is great.

I emailed everyone on the list toledolen supplied: I received this response shortly after:

I am in receipt of your email and want to thank you for contacting me regarding this matter. Today we had a committee hearing on this issue and several downtown business people were present to testify on the elimination of free parking from 11am-2pm Monday through Friday. As a result of the testimony presented, council decided to send this legislation back to the Administration. It would appear that there will be no changes to the hours of free parking in downtown Toledo. Again, thank you for your input and feel free contact me anytime. Sincerely, George Sarantou

good work people of TT and jr - the power of the net meets grass roots meets disclosure...

... equals good outcome

Good job everybody! It's refreshing to see a receptive council member like Steve Steel.

Considering Sarantou was in favor of eliminating free parking, I'm surprised he replied to anyone.

http://toledoblade.com/local/2011/07/22/Meters-to-stay-free-downtown-during-lunch.html

Kudos to Steel for standing up to the administration and the DTPA.

Mr. Johnston did not reveal which downtown business owners told him they were in favor of ending the free metered parking time.

Oh really? I wonder why that was?

It's BS. there are no downtown businesses that want this
supposedly the mudhens wanted a change, to help with game days, but i haven't heard one biz step forward and claim they wanted this.

The Mud Hens---Joe Napoli---color me shocked.

upso, How would the Mud Hens bennifit from it?

I'm sorry, but I think some realism needs to be injected into some of the criticisms I've heard. What does it cost to be metered for lunch? 75 cents? People are saying they'd just as soon not go to a place if they have to pay 75 cents in the process? You'd pay more than that in gas just to get to the express way. I'd happily pay 75 cents to have Packo's or Grumpy's for lunch (free parking notwithstanding) rather than hop on the highway and hit a chain.

its not about the change as in money, its about the change as in procedures. people hate it.i will be "trolling" again, but toledoans i find despise being told "what to do" no matter what it is.

But how much is a violation if you forget to feed the meter because you're enjoying lunch? Remember, the parking authority makes more money from violations than the meters.

Well that's not a very fair argument. If it's free parking til 2 and I walk out at 2:05 and get a ticket, I'm not going to blame the free parking. I'm going to blame myself. If somebody smashes into my car, I'm not going to say "damn you, metered spot!"

People working in or near Downtown usually use lunch time to run errands from stop to stop. I will often cram in a lunch meeting at one place, coffee at another, and a bank visit. Not having to worry about having coins on me at each stop along the way is great. I see this whole issue as a standard of living "perk" that tons of people use and enjoy. I don't care if there are employees taking advantage of it, I'm still able to find parking spots near where I need to be. Those employees are tax-paying Toledoans... why shouldn't they be allowed to take advantage of this as you and I do? They are paying into the meters during non-lunch hours...

JR, A standad violation is 10 dollars. But if you stay to long they will just keep putting 10 dollar tickets on your car, so you can accumulate multiple.

Johio83, I think part of the point to consider is not just the specific cost, but also the potential ease of use in parking downtown and what is best for the businesses there. Whether it is a 1.00 for an hour(btw its a dollar for a max 1 hour) or .50 for an hour still complicates parking. Toledolen_ I think you are spot on.

Also, remember, downtown is the only place in Toledo that the parking rules are enforced and tickets written so regularly. About one square mile, being generous.

I have no idea what in the hell point you're trying to make. This is not about 2:05 p.m.

"Metered parking at lunchtime has been free since the late 1970s."

Name the businesses who favor eliminating the free lunchtime parking. The parking authority says many businesses favor the change. Councilman Sarantou who's on the parking authority board also said many businesses favor the change. But nobody can name any. Yet, it seems many downtown business owners have expressed opposition to the proposed change.

So whose word do you trust more? The business owners voicing opposition to the proposal, or the fiction spewed by Sarantou and his pals?

Some public officials repeatedly said the proposed change had nothing to do with raising more revenue. It seems these people are intentionally deceiving the public by making things up. That's the real problem here. Sarantou and the parking authority made it sound like the lunchtime parking issue was a widespread problem in the downtown.

And how does eliminating free metered parking at lunchtime stop employees from using the metered spaces if those spaces are more convenient, especially in inclement weather? Restaurants have signs telling employees to wash their hands. If employee parking was adversely affecting business, then it would behoove the business owners to resolve the issue on their own. But again, name the businesses who are complaining and favor the change?

In my opinion, eliminating free lunch time parking between 11:00 a.m. and 2:00 p.m. is simply a gotcha money grab. The parking authority, the Bell administration, Sarantou, etc. needed some kind of reason to support the change, so they blamed employees.

As I said to one of the council members yesterday, this whole situation is going to make me pay WAY closer attention to all of the lip service I hear from politicians & local figure heads.

The same council person responded with a big "me too!"

So far, not a single business opposed to free lunchtime parking has spoken up... or been named, as far as I can tell. In my email to city council I asked Ludeman "which businesses have complained?"--as he claimed in The Blade's article earlier this week. No reply.

jr, the point I'm trying to make is that you can't use excuses like "what if I forget to put money in the meter," because then you could just pull any random "what ifs" into the equation. Forgetting to pay isn't an issue with the meter, it's an issue with the driver.

Again, I'm not saying there should be metered parking during lunch hours, but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people are making it out to be. When you add up the cost of the lunch and the cost of the gas to get wherever you're going, the meter can't be more than 1/20th of the cost.