BP Talmadge and Sylvania - I will not patronize this store.

http://www.wtol.com/global/story.asp?s=6101209

The jobs and family services building has a Guard that puts a stop to this kind of graft.".

I feel for those who paid a price for our country and the way we treat our veteran service members (especially those drafted w/o choice) is a absolute shame. But I don't think any business should be encouraging this type of behavior. You can have several "mistake" children and get lifetimes of payments but fight for your country poo poo on you. Damn shame.

This will kill their business and don't tell anyone would love the homeless population to up tick in your neighborhood. It's all warm and fuzzies till they turn stickup artist and someone loses a Mother/father/daughter/son.

It's been stated before on this post that there are people in society who truly are indigent. This is not the case here.

I also work part time near Westfield Mall. Last evening we had a car parked in front of our store with 4 very shady looking individuals. They began confronting our customers asking for "Gas money." Rather then call the police right away we asked them politely if we could get help for them, perhaps AAA. They asked if we had money. When we responded "No" they said "then get the "F" out of here!" at which time we called the police. This incident has occurred a few times now at our plaza.

My wife and I are law abiding citizens in the city who contribute to the tax base. We are basically semi retired. We can afford to take a hit on our home value and move. We presently choose to remain in Toledo but that choice is shifting away. Call it white flight... whatever... We are familiar enough with the rest of the country to know the benefits Toledo has but also the pitfalls and decline. The Westfield area is vitally important to the economics of our city. It's a shame not to feel safe there and to see this whole area around us decline.

This store is privately owned. The following e-mail was sent to BP Corporate. Don't know if it will do much good but it never hurts to try...

Good afternoon BP,

I am a resident and tax payer in the city of Toledo Ohio. I live near the Westfield shopping mall which is vitally important economically for our city. Families and shoppers frequent the mall and many businesses prosper there as well. Due to the economic downturn there has been a rise in businesses that have left the area. It is still strong but there are a dozen for lease signs looking to attract new business.

There is a BP station located across from that mall. The address is 4310 West Sylvania Avenue, Toledo OH 43623. Over the last year there has been a recurring problem with vagrants milling outside of that store carrying [work for food] signs and other such signs. They stand on the corner and approach vehicles as they turn the corner and look for handouts. Panhandling is illegal in our city. Citizens in our community have been calling the Toledo police to this location to remove these panhandlers. The police have responded dozens of times and do remove the vagrants from the premises.

This afternoon after calling the police about a vagrant in front of the BP Store I walked into the store to let the staff know that they could call the police to report this illegal activity taking place on their premises. I was told by the store manager that they allow this activity to occur because the vagrants come in and buy stuff. They are allowing vagrants to panhandle on the premises because they come into the store to “buy stuff.” This shows no regard for the community and surrounding businesses. This shows no regard for the tax payers whose homes are located near this store. This shows no concern for future development for this area as we Toledo’ans try to attract new businesses to fill the present vacancies at this mall.

Poverty has increased in our country, we need not contribute to it drawing businesses and citizens away from our communities.

I have begun to circulate information about BP’s practice at this store in our community. It is my hope that this practice will be discontinued.

I don't know, I tend to like the panhandlers I've met.

Certainly more than the asshats that pull in in their H2s and whatnot.

If you don't want to give them money, then don't.

If they were muggers, then there might be some reason to get them out of the area.

This is my neighborhood too. I doesn't seem to bother me as much as it bothers you. That's beside the point the though.

You seem to be putting the blame squarely on the store owner for encouraging the behavior of the pan handler. But, why didn't you call the police yourself if you thought this was the way to solver the problem?

Sorry about the spelling errors I guess I'm more tired than I thought.

I should have read more the post before posing my question. I realize now that you have called the police. I still don't understand how you can blame the vagrant problem squarely on this business owner.

I believe the reason these panhandlers come to this area is because of the high volume of traffic.

why do you rob banks? cause that's where the money is.

Slightly off topic, but what was in the location where the new strip malls @ Talmadge/Sylvania right before they were built? I'm drawing a blank. Chi Chis was where Panera is now located, correct?

P.S. On topic - perhaps he assumes that the panhandlers may go away or be less of a presence if the business owner actively discouraged them from working the parking lot.

Danneskjold is merely pointing out that if the property owner was actively kicking them off the premises as trespassers and reporting it to the police, the police are a lot more likely to care while at the same time discouraging this behavior from continuing. It shows that the business owner cares about the community at large.

The police are very unlikely to take action against a panhandler on private property without a request by the property owner.

Mom2 -- It was Ken's Flowers and I think Chi Chis was behind that.

Dannes -- Call your city councilman and complain about the lack of police involvement. Or is that Sylvania Twp? Anyway, get the political authorities involved.

mom2 - chi chi's had a huge parking lot. there was a flower shop right at the corner. between chi chi's and the bank was a small strip center which is where panera is now. ARIES has a nice 1998 ariel photo.

Not to blame the victim, but your best defense against panhandlers is either: a) completely ignore them; or b) adopt a Clint Eastwood-like demeanor in which the beggars immediately size you up as a potential threat, or as someone not worth the effort to hear their bulls**t stories.

I usually opt for the second approach in settings like gas stations and parking lots, and I assume that anyone who waltzes up to me is either a mugger or a con artist. You would be surprised at how many lowlifes a scowl and squinty eyes will deter, though admittedly at 6'5" and 230 pounds my size alone is probably a deterrent.

Anyways: never engage in conversation with these clowns, as conversation is the door through which they enter your life. At most give them a brush-off statement like "can't help you, dude" or "GTF out of here." Niceness is interpreted as either a sign of weakness or altruism, and you will become a magnet for panhandlers unless you ward off these pests. Donate to non-profit organizations if you really want to help the needy, but never give even a nickel to some clown who accosts you in a public or retail setting.

When I run across the panhandlers downtown, sometimes I execute a pre-emptive strike and ask them if they have a quarter. More times than not, they are more than willing to give me money.

At first I was thinking your reaction was a little over-the-top, Danneskjold. I mean, writing to corporate, really? Can't you just ignore the guy and mutter your annoyance under your breath like most people do?

But then I remembered the UT student who was killed last summer by a guy who started the confrontation by asking for spare change.

I mean, you never know, do you, if someone panhandling is truly in need or if they are a career panhandler or if they are some mentally unstable person who isn't going to react well if you refuse to give them money. I do believe that businesses have an obligation to keep their customers from being harassed. There are plenty of gas stations in the city and therefore no reason at all to patronize one which allows its customers to be harassed.

So, yeah, good on you for calling the police and writing to corporate.

Last night I watched a John Stossel documentary called "Freeloaders" (I think) that my husband had DVR'd from Fox News. (I know, I know, Fox News! ... but it was a good documentary if a bit heavy-handed in parts.) Stossel reported what some Toledo Talkers have posted here before: That career panhandling is on the rise, that many of these people have no intention of working a real job, and that many of them do quite well raking in good amounts dough from kind-hearted people who work hard for that money and pay taxes on it.

last fall i was working outdoors on the lawn at my office near downtown. some guy comes up and asks for money because his car has run out of gas down the block and he needs money for gas to get to the hospital to see his daughter who has just been taken in. i offer the gallon of gas in the gas can i have nearby - he just walked away cussing at me.

there is another guy who has been at both westgate franklin park who carries a sign that says "unemployed, hungry, and ugly" - really!? that for all practical purposes tells you it is a scam. sherlock holmes had a story based on the whole professional beggar scam. don't allow a foothold... it welcomes worse activities... it is a tipping point type thing.

It is very irritating to see these people who are not what they appear. Typically their car parked around the corner, working in teams, talking on cell phones, etc.

I was just at that intersection today. There is a vacant lot next to BP. Why not take over a few of the illegal "New Mattress for Sale" and "Weight Loss" signs that can always be found at busy intersections and repurpose them?

If traffic waiting at the light half a block away, in all four directions, could read a few signs that say "Career Panhandlers Ahead - They have turned down jobs and food offers - they just want your CA$H" there might be fewer people who give. And I'm willing to bet the panhandlers won't walk 50 yards down the road, and would not discover the signs. But their donation stream would dry up!

If they have a cell phone and are kept around a convenience store because "they buy stuff", then they are not "poor", nor helpless. They have money, are begging for more from suckers, and are spending it frivolously.

Seriously, if you were "dirt poor" and begging, would you be buying cell phone minutes? Or hanging around buying shit from a BP Store at a huge markup? "They need the phones to get a job!" Sure...right. Go offer a them a job--you might get lucky and get a hard working employee. But from this pool, I'd bet you won't.

The true poor are helped by innumerable local churches and charities to pull their lives back together. My mom & dad volunteered at church to work with people (mainly women, but some men) whose lives were devastated and they--in gratefulness, temperament, and guts to fight for a better life--were nothing like what you see with these "career panhandlers", "Army veteran" or not.

The people who hang around gas stations--with the same story every time ("I just ran out of gas", "I need $10 to get to my ____'s house")--are a total scam. And HM's right; unfortunately, if you are nice it just makes you a "cash machine" target.

Found the below information on www.toledostreets.org

PANHANDLERS: COUPONS, NOT CASH

Ok, so the weather is warming up and we’re all out walking around, enjoying being outside and supporting local business. It also means the chances are higher you’ll run into someone who’s panhandling. What to do?
We’ve created Toledo Streets Coupons you can print out to hand someone. They encourage the person to contact us here at Toledo Streets and find out about becoming a vendor. We don’t have anything against panhandlers, we just want to help folks move in a more positive direction. Selling a community-based street paper puts someone who formerly capitalized on pity into their own business of capitalizing on a proven program!

Suggest they call 211 for help. Suggest the Source for work on Monroe and 14th.

I applaud the initiative that allows a person the dignity of exchange rather than pity. However, my wife and I were at the corner noted above less than two weeks ago and a middle aged Spanish gentleman who has been panhandling there for more than a year had a newspaper he was waving to sell. He put the newspaper down beneath his bag and then picked up his [help the homeless] sign. On this corner, where the panhandler has made this his full time job (not looking for work) I believe the paper is comparable to bait. He uses that for a while and then if no bites he picks up his cardboard sign.

BTW - this same gentleman now has a young protege who also works the corner day in and day out. They actually roatate corners and can be seen walking together down Sylvania or sitting behind the BP taking breaks. Meanwhile the lot across from the BP sits vacant hoping to attract new business that would hire Toledoans.

It's getting ridiculous, the numbers of people begging on street corners. They are everywhere.

I watched a story about toledo streets last night. I believe that they mean well, and I believe that for some people, for a moment, a "newspaper" sale is one step above panhandling. I mean, I sold The Blade when I was 11. That was more than 35 years ago. If a person my age thinks that "selling a paper" is a vocation which rises to the level to provide pride... well... I'd rather just give them 5 bucks and say good luck. After all... The Free Press is much better and arives at my doorstep for free. Some old newsboys style rag is not really a newspaper. And, after I have one. I am done.

Certainly there are people who have fallen on hard times, and mentally ill people, on the street. I feel for them. Especially the mentally ill. But call me callous... I am already rewarding people for making bad decisions enough with the revenue from making good decisions.... via the IRS.

I flip them off and yell F@ck You as I drive by. Serious degenerates. We need a private star chamber type arrangement for these parasites.

I've wanted to get a couple people together and make our own signs that read, "This person is a scam artist" with a big arrow on it and stand out there with them. Anyone want to give it a try on Monday?