Confused, Confused, Confused!

- toledo is short on opportunity - grade D. if you have something and it is secure toledo feels golden; if you don't, there appears to be little on the horizon

- toledo is parochial C. a few big concerts, a couple big plays, a nice symphony, a nice museum, a good zoo, nice metroparks, a big lake. if you are still a road warior be prepared to take on chicago, detroit, a2, cleveland, columbus, stratford, etc for destination cultural events. having said that, mud hen baseball is a much better experience than ANY place else, any level, any sport (altho i have not been to old trafford for a manchester united game). having said that, how many concerts,plays, trips to museums, games, etc arre you really gonna do each year?

- toledo is poorly governed D-. just a few people, a couple families, and several unions run toledo politics. much of why toledo has little opportunity is because it is so poorly governed. if you don't care about politics or at least have a secure job and you can ignore civic impulses or if you just go to a suburb like most people and allow toledo to fester on its own, you'll be fine. because things are relatively affordable and life is easy, people don't care about the politics and that only encourages the pols.

= toledo weather C. it's much more cloudy than other places and that does matter. the winters are real winters so you better enjoy skating or Xcountry skiing or be prepared not to do much for 3 months. but it is not like buffalo or minneapolis and ridiculous. spring and fall are great and the unbearble part of summer is pretty short.

+ toledo is affordable A-. there are terrific neighborhoods in several parts of town that you get a lot of house for the money. there are several more suburbs that are as well.

+ toledo is easy to get around A+. i currently live in a place where during both morning and evening rush hour you don't go out if you don't have to. it constricts every part of your life, you plan around it. toledo at 5:15 is nothing except for a couple intersections in sylvania township.

+ toledo has a relatively low a$$-0 quotient B+. it may be the bad economy in a parochial town but people are friendlier and less pretentious - they are there if you look but it is harder to get away with it there.

= toledo is flat C. boring to look at; boring grid on the landscape; which makes biking and running easy; easy place-finding; easy for kids to learn to drive

- toledo radio D. since jp mccarthy, ernie harwell, and ken calvert stopped broadcasting, who listens to radio anymore? - granted these were all detroit voices but if you lived in toledo, you used to know when traffic was bad on the lodge freeway in detroit. still, we have 91.7 - oops, thats a2.

most importantly, with grade school kids at a nice catholic school and your wife happy, take your service record (thank you for your service) and experience and go to one of the remaining large companies (dana OI a hospital or UT) and start looking. toledo is a premier place to raise kids and to be safe and to have life relatively easy and stress-free life.

I suppose it all depends on what your priorities are.

What would you want out of a civilian PR career? Certainly the kind of PR work one would do in Toledo may be far different than the kind of PR work that might be done in NYC/LA/Chicago, etc.

I won't lie, the job market in Toledo is tough right now, BUT there are opportunities for people with the right experience. (I know someone who just relocated here from Colorado to take a very well-paying position. But that individual had the right experience for the right opening at the right time.)

The Toledo area has good aspects, especially for raising a family. I live in the suburbs & my kids attend Catholic school. I'm very happy with our decision to raise the kids here.

I suppose you also have to consider the needs of your wife and kids. If they are happy being settled near family/friends, does that override other factors?

I'd echo much of what enjoyeverysandwich had to say, and would add a few observations of my own.

First, I don't think the market for upper-level PR/marketing gigs here is very strong. At all. The corporations, well, there aren't many remaining here now. And my understanding is that those that have stayed have either retrenched those departments and/or outsourced much of those functions.

Second (and, to me, this is a big deal, and yes, I say it anyway, knowing I'll be accused of "elitism" in short order), the educational level in this area is seriously low. It is hard, in my view, to live in an area where so few people are decently educated. The majority has only a high school education. This does not an informed citizenry make. I think this limitation is also part of why our politicians are so seriously feeble -- first, we draw from a limited pool of potential candidates, and second, voters aren't necessarily using the best sets of questions (i.e., critical thinking) to make polling decisions.

Are there many pleasures in living here? Yes. These have been tallied ad nauseum for years (museum, parks, etc.), and don't need me to do so yet again. But there are grave drawbacks, too, at least in my mind, and I thought they were worth noting, since you asked.

Good luck! And good on you for wanting to spend more time with your kids -- that may well (and should) trump everything else.

Good luck finding a gig in Toledo. The above observations are generally correct about the area and bring up some important points to consider.

Also, one more thing to consider is that for your wife to be closer to family in Toledo you don't actually have to live in Toledo. If what is best for your career (and it sounds like your family is focusing on your career, not your wife's) is to be in a bigger market, then you at least have some options within a relatively short drive. Detroit area (45 min-1 hr from Toledo city limits), Cleveland (90 minutes), and Columbus (2-2 1/4 hours) are all viable alternate areas for you and possibly offer opportunities Toledo simply can't because of it's size.

Just something to think about. Heck you might find a beautiful community in between Toledo and wherever you end up that would shorten your commute and give your kids a great area to grow up in outside a city. Or you might find it in the city, Toledo or elsewhere.

Whatever it ends up being, thank you for your service and dedication to our country. Over the past decade of war, around-the-world deployment, and political hoo-ha, I'm sure it has not been easy for you or your family.

I would probably amend the "opportunity" grade offered up by enjoyeverysandwich so that it reflects education and experience. I think for people who have attained a bachelor's degree or higher (and/or who have significant experience in a field) the employment opportunities in Toledo are reasonable (say, C plus). Certainly the economic recession has dampened expectations somewhat, and there are certain fields for which Toledo is not exactly a major business mecca (advertising, for one), yet there remain some interesting employment opportunities in the area.

However, for people without a college degree (or for people who lack experience, or who find themselves in a field with a small Toledo presence) Toledo probably does have a dire outlook. Anyone seeking manufacturing work will be lucky to find gainful employment over $14 an hour, and even such ho-hum jobs are rare these days. Add to this the expanded pool of job seekers (many with skills, degrees, and/or experience) and you have a recipe for tough times. Let's go with a D minus in terms of Toledo opportunities for folks in these categories.

And while PR opportunities might be somewhat scarce, it is entirely possible to find a middle-sized firm that is looking for someone who can handle PR duties as well as other corporate functions, perhaps a company that cannot afford a full-time PR rep but which wants to find a candidate who can wear multiple hats. Add to this the growing importance of social network marketing: being Net-savvy and tech-savvy might allow you to sell yourself to a company that is looking to improve its marketing while seeking someone who can handle PR duties.

Anyways, I wish you luck, and remember that most luck is really self-produced: being in the right place at the right time is largely a function of hard work and networking.

Given your experience - you may have very broad opportunities outside of PR as well. Talk to a military/civilian recruiter and let them know you are open to opportunities in the midwest.

Good luck. Thank you for your service.

TAHL

I am a military child. From birth to 17 years I was born and raised living with the military lifestyle. As an adult I can say it is not as bad as you think it is for kids, but it can be hard.

That being said I do not recommend Toledo. After such a long career you would be better off near a base of your former service. Bases provide great civilian job opportunities for those with your length of service. MY father retired from the military a Master Sargent and then turned around and works on the base as a civ and makes around four times his former pay.

I also want to add that both of my parents were from Toledo - living in Dayton mean they could visit with ease. You dont have to be in Toledo to spend time with Family in Toledo.

I was an Army brat and I loved moving every 3 years. We got to experience a lot of different cultures and meet many different people. I'm more rounded and excepting of others because of it. Kids are more resilient and adaptable than you may think, and a military upbringing can be a good thing.

If I had good pay, benefits, and credit towards a pension in my current position while also having young kids, I would not be in a hurry to give all that up to take a chance on private-sector employment in Toledo.

Companies have looked for ways to shed responsibility for pensions and medical benefits -- not to mention, shedding jobs -- because almost anything can be outsourced these days. Especially the writing/publicity functions.

IMHO, employers around here are kind of unfocussed when it comes to hiring. In several interview situations, a colleague and I found that the job descriptions, hours, expectations, pay scale, chain of command, etc. were substantially different from what was specified in the recruitment ads. In other words, the offers were so wildly different, that we would not have wasted the company's time had they been more accurate about their needs. Colleague finally left town and got a suitable job right away out West.

And following up on iluv's remark about education level, I would say that family patterns of academic indifference and the history of union vs. management antagonism make for a strange workplace sometimes. There does not seem to be a basic level of professional courtesy in discussing the kinds of issues that are taken for granted in the work sphere in other cities.

I have witnessed several supervisory positions in different sectors here which required a lower-level boss to be in charge of tracking down missing employees by phone (people who had already called in sick, and were not getting paid, and who understood that). There was some desire on the part of higher-ups to "catch" people goofing off at home under the guise of needing a sick day.

Also, I saw several instances of full-time people being laid off so that someone's high school kid could have a summer job. At the end of summer, they'd just hire a new full-timer. This was permitted because neither the supervisors nor the higher-ups really saw any value in retaining good, experienced employees (there was no pay differential, just people shunting a temporary paycheck to a relative).

It's as if HR as a profession never made it to town.

Of course, I chose to move here and I love living here. As enjoysandwich says, if you have a good gig, life is golden. Insignificant traffic, great cultural amenities, a greater percentage of free time to spend outdoors (fishing, birdwatching, biking, etc.).

Thanks for your service.

As a person who is contemplating relocating I commend you on finding an excellent resource to investigate a possible relocation to this city. You will get an honest opinion from real locals here.

I think enjoyeverysandwich was pretty thorough and touched on a lot of great points.

I'll spin this from another angle which is an opinion from someone who may be deciding to leave Toledo in the near future.

I would really miss the Metroparks; Wildwood especially since it is near our home and has excellent dirt running trails. I would miss the cost of living here. I have a small, modest home in a reasonable safe Toledo suburb. This may sound crazy but think I would miss the food the most. Toledo has some great restaurants that are reasonably priced.

Why I might leave...

When people ask me about Toledo who live out of town the first image that pops up is old bowling alleys. It's blue collar industrial at a time when manufacturing is down. When the economy is poor... Toledo waits.... and blames.... and waits.... and complains.... If I had to suggest a book for Toledo to read it would be "Who moved my Cheese." The World changes every day and waiting for yesterday can be very dangerous.

If you move frequently and consciously consider any move to Toledo only being 3-5 years I think Toledo would be very worth exploring. Many could fall in love with the city. Despite it's pit falls I will have a hard time leaving. If you're planning investing a great deal of money in a house with a 20 year mortgage and really planting roots deep, well.... I would find a place to rent for a year and see if you like it first. Like I said... honest opinions.

I'm not sure what branch of the military you serve, or what your MOS or skill set might be.

But would it be possible to secure a full-time job with the National Guard or a military reserve unit ?

Toledo's a great place for women's basketball!

Also, access to wildlife: on a drive after supper last night, we saw about 50 deer (three separate locations) and enjoyed watching the fishermen all along the river. There's a vibrant outdoor scene here, between the walleye run, the Metroparks, nearby state parks. I even enjoy the groundhogs and bunnies in the neighborhoods. Fun to watch!

And I've had more time and energy to enjoy leisure activities, since traffic is easy, shopping is convenient, places are generally not too crowded (with the exception of Savage Arena, where the Lady Rockets just set an attendance record last night!)

I know someone who was in the National Guard that was hired full time (still military) right here at Camp Perry, very close to Toledo, Something to check into when you get back.

Also thank you for your service.