Toledo Talk

Oregon police release sketches of abduction suspects

Look pretty much how I expected:

As much as you tell yourself that this is just a random thing and that child abduction by strangers is a very rare event, it still gives you the creeps to imagine that there are people like this out there.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2011/07/28/Oregon-police-release-sketches-of-suspects.html

The original story in case you didn't read it:

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2011/07/27/Oregon-man-recounts-attempted-kidnapping-of-his-son.html

created by Ace_Face on Jul 28, 2011 at 05:14:40 pm     News     Comments: 28

source      versions


Comments ... #

I hope they find these sickos QUICK! Horrifying.

posted by toledolen_ on Jul 29, 2011 at 01:18:58 am     #  

I know this will add to the hockeyfan haters, but I have questions.

The father said it was 9:30 at night and he was only 30 feet away. Doing what? It gets dark at about 9 and even if he wasn't keeping a constant eye on his kid, why let him go all the way to the edge of the driveway by the road at dark?

Second, the father gave descriptions of the suspects good enough for a police sketch at dark? The way the article is written, it appears that he changed his story and said that they suspects were "canvassing" the neighborhood.

I'm not trying to think one way or another, but something sounds fishy.

posted by hockeyfan on Jul 29, 2011 at 01:29:47 am     #   1 person liked this

Just read the 2nd article.
A 2 year old riding at the end of a driveway on a street at dark?

The father said he ran 30 feet and was able to get his son from the woman? What if the car stopped because the kid was riding his toy into the street and it all went horribly wrong? If the father was freaked out when he approached the car, it might have given the driver(man) a reason to pull a gun and get him to back away from his woman.

posted by hockeyfan on Jul 29, 2011 at 01:33:24 am     #  

Is it really that dark at 9:30? Also, I'm pretty sure that street has streetlights.

(Going from memory there - a friend used to live on a side street off Eastmoreland.)

At 9:30 especially with streetlights, it wouldn't necessarily be all that dark.

posted by mom2 on Jul 29, 2011 at 06:16:00 am     #  

My own BS meter was staring to click, hockeyfan, and I share your skepticism. Agreed that something seems amiss in this story.

posted by historymike on Jul 29, 2011 at 09:05:50 am     #  

Story is weird, but the big question is... if the kid wasn't abducted, why file a false report in the first place? What on earth is he trying to cover?

posted by upso on Jul 29, 2011 at 09:38:25 am     #  

"Is it really that dark at 9:30?"

Yes. On July 22, the length of day was nearly 30 minutes shorter than it was a month earlier. The sky was clear last Friday evening around 9:30 p.m., so that would permit a bit more light in the sky.

"The father said it was 9:30 at night and he was only 30 feet away. Doing what?"

WTOL story :

"Scott Schultz was doing yard work ..."

Strong storms rumbled through the Toledo area on Friday afternoon, July 22, knocking out power in some areas and bringing down twigs to large branches. I can't speak for Oregon, but in West Toledo, last Friday's storm brought down a lot of tree debris, and the power was out for approximately four hours until around 6:20 p.m. Maybe the father was cleaning up storm debris in his yard, and he didn't want to wait until Saturday, and maybe he was too busy earlier on Friday evening to do the yard work in the daylight. The WTOL video shows trees around the home.

"I'm pretty sure that street has streetlights."

You can see streetlights in the WTOL video at the parent's home.

From the Jul 27, 2011 Blade story :

A woman, a complete stranger, was holding Scott Schultzís 2-year-old son in her arms. She plucked the boy off of his motorized toy car at the end of his Eastmoreland Drive driveway and tried to put him in her car. Mr. Schultz, who was only about 30 feet away, ran for his son, Tyler, and was able to take him from the woman. A man, who was driving the car, got out and pointed a gun at the father.

From that description, it appears the father was in close proximity to both would-be abductors and the vehicle.

posted by jr on Jul 29, 2011 at 09:44:24 am     #  

Regarding the "casing the neighborhood" comment, I thought I recalled reading that neigbors were the ones who reported seeing the car in the neighborhood earlier in the day. (I can't recall which news article I read that statement in.)

I don't think its that unusual for a child to be out in the yard at 9:30 pm on a summer weekend evening. In my neighborhood, there are often children playing outside in the evenings. 9-9:30ish is probably when they start to head in, but I wouldn't find it extremely unusual for a kid to be outside at 9:30 (in the summer)...especially if the dad was finishing picking up storm debris.

My kids will go out into our backyard during the summer at 9:30-10ish to chase fireflies. Not every night, of course, but once in awhile.

posted by mom2 on Jul 29, 2011 at 09:54:02 am     #  

A 2 year old, riding an electric toy, at the end of a driveway, near a road?

This isn't catching fireflys after dark, this is a 2 year old. 30 feet away? That's over 3 car lengths away.

Is this guy sure those two weren't just returning his son after an evening out on the town? Or maybe Jr. was just asking them directions to the nearest chuck e cheese?

posted by hockeyfan on Jul 29, 2011 at 10:13:59 am     #  

Loving the skepticism

posted by Hoops on Jul 29, 2011 at 10:34:20 am     #   1 person liked this

get a fucking life

posted by Ryan on Jul 29, 2011 at 10:50:01 am     #  

I find it interesting that there are people* who will complain that kids don't play outside in their own neighborhoods anymore.

Yet there are also people who are quick to jump on this dad for allowing his child to play in his own yard under his father's supervision.

It seems that no matter what you do, there will be someone who finds fault with it.

*Not hockeyfan specifically, just people in general.

posted by mom2 on Jul 29, 2011 at 10:54:24 am     #   5 people liked this

thats what i meant to say, lol

posted by Ryan on Jul 29, 2011 at 11:09:31 am     #  

1) people are generally terrible at judging distance.

2) 30 feet is less than 10 yards if that helps visualize the distance.

3) 3 car lengths - 3 smart cars maybe.

Regardless of skepticism, isn't it a good idea to find out what the alleged abductors were doing if not attempting something criminal. If it was something innocent - like picking a child up out of the street, wouldn't they come foreward?

TAHL

posted by CynicalCounsel on Jul 29, 2011 at 11:26:07 am     #  

Blaming the victim always solves the problem. ;-)

posted by brainswell on Jul 29, 2011 at 11:26:45 am     #   1 person liked this

Hockeyfan, regardless of clock time, I think you would vividly remember the faces of two people that grabbed your son and pointed a gun at your face.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jul 29, 2011 at 11:43:16 am     #  

For once I agree with Ryan on something (and brainswell).

When I was young, I was the victim of an attempted abduction from my front yard. Even though that was almost 25 years ago, I could still tell you exactly what the woman looked like. Traumatic experiences burn a place in your memory for a long, long time.

posted by dell_diva on Jul 29, 2011 at 11:49:07 am     #  

Well as someone who has a 2 year old boy, It is not unusual for him to be around 30 feet away playing. Just because he was *near the street does not cause a concern to me. My child will go to the end of my driveway, but knows the boundary and has since he was old enough to walk. I admit that I was skeptical for some reason of the story also, but I think it was just because it is so hard to believe that this could happen and I didn't WANT to believe things like this happen.

posted by jennygirlmarie on Jul 29, 2011 at 12:41:25 pm     #  

People like to blame/question victims ... because if you can find fault with a victim (or disprove their story), that makes you feel safer, like this sort of thing could NEVER happen to you!

*

My own driveway is longer than 30 feet long, and I can easily imagine a scenario where if I'm pulling weeds along the driveway* or something and I told my toddler he could ride his Big Wheel up and down the driveway but no further, I'd feel perfectly safe and not like I was being a neglectful parent or anything. But I guess I am wrong. Apparently, you must literally leash your children to you these days to keep them safe.

(*and yes, 9 p.m.-ish is really the best time for me to do yard work these days because any other time of the day has been TOO HOT and I don't tolerate the heat all that well.)

posted by jmleong on Jul 29, 2011 at 02:27:23 pm     #   1 person liked this

WTOL reported that the father heard the male tell the female to get him, get him, get him (referring to the boy).

posted by lfrost2125 on Jul 29, 2011 at 02:28:45 pm     #  

(*and yes, 9 p.m.-ish is really the best time for me to do yard work these days because any other time of the day has been TOO HOT and I don't tolerate the heat all that well.)

I hear you on that one!

For the past few weeks, I've been going out to clean up after my dogs at 6 am before I take my morning shower. It has just been too hot in the evenings to think about scooping up dog doo.

posted by mom2 on Jul 29, 2011 at 02:32:58 pm     #  

I was out doing yard work until almost 10:00 last night. After working out in the heat all day long, yard work really isn't at the top of my list the minute I get home.

posted by lfrost2125 on Jul 29, 2011 at 02:39:48 pm     #  

I'm laughing at how I posted questions about the father's story, which is the only side of the story we have, and I'm being told to get a fucking life, that I blamed the victim, etc., etc..

I guess maybe, just maybe if this is a false police report that the time and money spent on it is just "o.k." with you? Just like when Casey Anthony told the "truth" about her missing daughter.

Disagree if you want. Hate me if you want. I'm still skeptical of what happened and what the father has said. We may never know the real truth, but to follow it blindly by taking the father's story as gospel without being able to verify anything otherwise is silly.

posted by hockeyfan on Jul 29, 2011 at 04:38:50 pm     #   1 person liked this

To be fair, there are just as many (or more) people who have had a rational dialogue about some of the points you brought up as there were who verbally attacked you.

Also, there were multiple neighbors who confirmed seeing that car canvassing the neighborhood prior to the (alleged) incident, which has led the police to obtain surveillance footage from nearby busineses in hopes of catching a glimpse of the car. (According to WTOL.com.)

I often have a healthy dose of skepticism when looking at news stories as well. However, in this case, the main basis for your skepticism seems to be that the boy was playing at the end of his own driveway in the evening while his father was in the front yard. I just don't view that as something "fishy" in and of itself.

The 5 year old girl in Detroit who was supposedly snatched from inside her aunt's home? Yeah...I'd bet money that one of the adults who was present in that house isn't telling the truth. And I never believed Casey Anthony's story for a second. John Skelton? What a liar! But most people who file a false police report in those situations are covering their tracks because the child has actually been harmed. Not the case here...I'm struggling to figure out what possible incentive/motive this guy could have for making up this particular story?

posted by mom2 on Jul 29, 2011 at 05:00:09 pm     #   1 person liked this

Historymike, you've raised more kids than I have, so I would value your opinion about my suspicions.

A 2-year-old child playing on the driveway at 9:30? I could understand that older kids might have an outdoor summertime twilight play habit (and good for them!) but don't two-year-olds generally need to be in bed much earlier?

How about buying a motorized vehicle toy for a 2-year-old and letting him drive it?

I used to babysit quite a bit, and there was always a fairly large gulf between what toddlers get to do and what older kids could do. Are today's two-year-olds more mentally and physically advanced, that they don't need any special safeguards or routines?

Not blaming the victims here ... I am genuinely curious about this. Thanks

posted by viola on Jul 30, 2011 at 02:06:45 pm     #  

Personally, I find the idea of a 2-year-old in a motorized toy car near the street at 9:30 pm to be borderline idiocy. However, after the shellacking that hockeyfan took, I am not going to waste my time getting folks riled up about this case any more. Most of the board accepts the story at face value, and to try and point out the inconsistencies and strange aspects of this case would as pointless as punching a tidal wave.

:-)

If the story as presented is indeed accurate and unembellished, I hope the police catch the perps. If it turns out that this story is, well, just another local false kidnapping tale, then let the authorities go forward.

Whoops - I am sure that I just added fuel to the fire with that last comment.

< covers head with four-ply steel shield in anticipation of the ton of indigant bricks that is sure to rain down >

posted by historymike on Jul 30, 2011 at 05:06:15 pm     #  

touche HM, touche.

I wonder if HF eats at Carmels?

posted by Ryan on Jul 30, 2011 at 07:20:47 pm     #  

Yes how about instead of questioning the parenting skills of the father and whether it is a true account or not we leave that to the police. I'm sure the police are quite capable of determining if this was a false report or not.

posted by douglasadietz on Jul 31, 2011 at 10:30:00 pm     #