Attn: Warehouse District Live/Work Folks

Teen Night Clubs are always so successful and bring in new jobs with out any trouble or violence ?!?!?!?!?

This zoning change needs to be rejected strongly

The place will last 6 months top...

or it wont even open.

Will it be called "Henry J's II"?

You may want to see if there are any property owners left near Byrne who remember the "teens" puking and carrying on in their yard after Henry J's closed for the night...might help bolster your case against having this thing approved.

After all, it would bring jobs, entertainment, and tax revenue to the city...and they salivate at that possibility...even for 6 months.

Don't forget Club Hype over in Maumee. I think the sign is still up.

Here is a couple of items about it -

http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=14039002

http://www.foxtoledo.com/dpp/news/local/Club-Hype-under-fire-for-racy-photos

is it a legal use for the site? have you ever been in any of the adults bars in the WHD and seen the debauchery that occasionally occurs there? why the double standard?

nothing wrong with the neighborhood being watchful and calling the police on every single violation that occurs... but jeez, this prior restraint stuff is painful to watch. in a neighborhood that exceeds the allowable number of liqour licenses intentionally, that can be silly loud past midnight, how bad can a teen club be? it is going to close one way or another in 2 or 3 months anyway.

this is similar to carryouts - i grew up with a carryout 2 blocks away and everybody used it. mine was a united dairy farmers - others had a sterling store. but now, everybody wants to stop convenience stores from going in - "ohhh the crime.... blah blah". there are a handful of bad operators, the rest are just people working long hard hours trying to provide a service and make a living.

be watchful, take care of your neighbors, but if it is an allowable use and laws are not being violated, lets let people try. who knows, it could turn out to be a safe fun place for kids.

Working in the WHD, I can understand the concern. Yes, there are several establishments that serve booze (mine included) but the space in question is completely surrounded by quiet residential with more residential developments on the way.

I wonder how having a teen club would affect people looking to purchase one of the town houses across the street? I'm all for development, but I think it needs to be thoughtfully planned out. To me, a teen club is a great idea, just not for that location. It's much more suited for a restaurant or retail.

Either way, I hope that if the club opens, the owners respect their neighbors. It's a tight knit neighborhood.

Wow – Fred Lefebvre was on the hypocritical ride of his life time this morning; complaining about those property owners and nearby residence trying to stop the rezoning for the downtown youth club.

Fred, they guy who vehemently opposed the re-zoning over the line for wind turbines in Michigan two months ago is opening a huge ass can of hypocrite for this one. He calls any decision based on the input of nearby residence as “one of emotion” while he regularly encouraged his listeners to attend the meetings for the wind turbines to have "their voices heard".

He goes onto complain about the jobs that won’t be created by not re-zoning, but jobs were never a factor with the wind turbines. He’s going on and on about the nearby residence focusing on the negative. Really? Fred’s entire show is based on “the negative”. Partially when it came to the wind turbines, no negative or negative opinion was too small to bring up.

Wow Fred, you were really on fire this morning.

Thanks for listening SensorG. The more people who listen, the bigger the quarterly bonus. The businesses in the WHD, which includes Clear Channel and it's employees, should sit down with the property owner and talk about their fears and concerns. They should come up with a plan to avoid trouble, trash, and loitering. Or we could just continue to tell Toledo's young that they aren't welcome here and they should look elsewhere once they graduate.

Why would graduates visit a teen dance club?

Fred, I'm happy to help your bonus. I hope you're saving it because from what I've seen, you are way under funding your 401k for a guy your age.

Funny, on the wind turbines the only plan you were looking for, was a plan to stop them. You weren't talking about neighbors working together.

Also, what teen is going to come back to Toledo after graduating college because of some downtown club he went to when he was 15? Again you are being a complete hypocrite, you regularly argue that amenities don’t attract or keep people, but now you’re saying a teen club will?

Let’s quote Fred –
“The argument about museums,zoos etc etc always comes up when "quality of life" is discussed. In 1980 I was offered a job in Toledo. It paid more than what I was making at the time. I didn't ask if they had a museum,zoo, bike trails etc etc. I asked when can I start? Once I settled in I looked at the "quality of life" being offered. I've been to the museum, the zoo (a member), the symphony, etc etc. Not one of them would keep me here if another job paying me more came along.”

Tell you what, Fred. You give me your wind turbine and I'll give you a teen dance club. Wind turbines are MUCH quieter and don't leave trash all over the ground.

I moved downtown to get away from the teen crowd. Parents should keep their kids in the "safe & sanitary" confines of the suburbs after dark. This IS the city. The second one of them winds up in ER from a fight the parents are going to be forming angry mobs protesting for the club's shutdown. Then the press will latch on with another "slum and blight" description to my area.

The residents and business owners are the ones TRYING to make this a nice area to live. This club is a horrible idea and would be a major setback to all that has been done over the past decade. Apparently, Mr. Lefebre, this sounds much like what you are trying to do where you live as well. Don't be a hypocrite.

I think the biggest problem with teen clubs is how they are monitored. That place in Maumee had no supervision. Without supervision, a negative element will present itself no matter what.
Before I vote one way or another, I'd like to hear what type of supervision will be taking place. If none, of course it's gonna be a trouble spot.

A "teen club" is not a "Boys & Girls Club" or some kind of social haven for at risk youth. Not at all. It is a place with hormones raging, guys getting into fights over skanky chicks, and late night reveling.

Should this place come into existence, I think there's a better than average chance of things like this happening:

Baton Rouge: Deputies Investigate Teen Club Shooting

St. Louis: 2nd teen dies after St. Louis nightclub shooting

Cleveland: Shooting at Wickliffe Teen Nightclub

Memphis: Club 296 Shooting Cuts Teen Life Short

Savannah: Boy shot at teen nightclub

Jacksonville: Police arrest teen for fatal club shooting

Chicago: Shootings Put Covert Teen Club On Towns' Radar

Portland: Two killed in shooting outside US teen club: police

Washington D.C.: Md. Teen Dies After Nightclub Shooting

Houston: One teen dead, two wounded in nightclub shooting

Augusta (GA): Another Teen Club Shooting Leaves Commissioners Concerned

Peoria: Shooting @ teen club overnight leaves one dead.

Great Britain (!): Teens jailed after Facebook feud sparks youth club shooting

quieter and leaving trash on the ground? - if that is your measure, close down the bars. that would close down most great city urban areas... no french quarter, no picadilly, no manhatten. the secret is to clean up quickly.

get away from the teen crowd was your motivation to move to the WHD?! really?!! good urbanism is mixed... mixed uses, mixed economics, mixed ages. good cities have all age people living there and when toledo has it, it means we are succeeding. safe and sanitary suburbs - makes it sound like you conceed that downtowns are dangerous inherently - i disagree with your premise.

the club, just as any business, has the potential to be a positive for toledo and the WHD. unless the owner has a history of unsavory activity or the zoning does not permit it, why be so negative? did you do this for the bars that opened or when they block off streets and have bands playing loud or outside. the bars have plenty of patrons who stop at any convenient dark place outside to relieve themselves. there are fights on a regular basis. a teen club looks like an easy target but the bars cause many more problems.

there are people who have worked to improve the WHD long before you came - some for up to 35 years - and will probably be here after you leave.

fred - if any of us ever receive arbitron surveys, we will all deny we have ever heard of speedy radio

for every teen club headline you would be able to find a story about 100 bar fights/shooting/liquor violation. hell, if what happened at a teen club occurred at a bar, it wouldn't even be reported most of the time.

The fighting, drinking (you know it's gonna happen), debauchery (douche-baggery), and grinding, can wait till 21. You have a whole life time for "getting into fights over skanky chicks (been in a few), and late night reveling (done that a handful of times)." Adults don't make good choices at the "club" you think kids (what teens are) are gonna make better ones? If this is the road we want to go down just lower the drinking age to 18 (you can goto war for heavens sake) and be done with it.

If there was going to be "supervision" it wouldn't open in the first place, the whole point would is to get away from supervision. No "teen" is going to goto a place with chaperons, would you have?

you could do a similar search and find out about violence at schools, in urban areas, in the suburbs. you could find stories about corrupt police, convicted clergy, cute dogs biting kids, poisonous colorful animals.

the fact that examples of any bad thing exists doesn't mean they are all bad or even that most of them are bad or even that many of them are bad - it just means some are bad and we should be vigilant

well, if fights do occur or drinking or sex or nudity in public... THEN shut it down.... the owner has incentive to make sure this stuff does not happen because if they get shut down they loose their investment.

go to the plan commiss and city council and put conditions on their approval based on certain criteria such as police calls and garbage violations and noise. teen clubs are a difficult thing to run successfully and this place is likely to close quickly.... but again, why the prior restraint?! we have laws and we have rights - unless you know they plan on doing illegal activity or they have a history of prior illegal activity, why not allow a business to try?!

"Wind turbines are MUCH quieter and don't leave trash all over the ground."

Install the wind turbines in downtown Toledo where they won't be noticed, and move the teen club out into a soybean field where they won't be noticed.

Fred, refresh my memory. When the Glass City Academy was trying to move into your neighborhood five years ago but was opposed by the neighbors for many of the same reasons. Did you fight and belittle your neighbors with the same gusto as you’re fighting the WHD residence?

get away from the teen crowd was your motivation to move to the WHD?! really?!!

Yes. Really. It was one of several major reasons I have always preferred to live in urban areas. Am I anti-teen? No, but I prefer not to have them congregating outside my front door.

unless the owner has a history of unsavory activity or the zoning does not permit it, why be so negative?

If the owners will show themselves, present a plan of how they will be vigilant with the supervision, then maybe I would be less "negative". Please understand I am using my past experiences to form my opinions. And that most teen clubs go to hell quickly.

there are people who have worked to improve the WHD long before you came - some for up to 35 years - and will probably be here after you leave.

I'm not here to get into some longevity pissing match with you. I'm here now and I am staying. I also have a vested interest in my community and am trying to change the "wild west" way things are run in this city.

the fact that examples of any bad thing exists doesn't mean they are all bad or even that most of them are bad or even that many of them are bad - it just means some are bad and we should be vigilant

Take a look at the breadth of those stories again. Most--if not all of them--are from the past couple of years. All specifically involve "teen clubs"--specifically targeting "underage" kids. All of them ending up very adult-like dead.

I don't know how many clubs you have been in during your lifespan, but I have been in a ton (worked for radio stations and did all kinds of spinning, mixing, and promotion). What I have seen in my life and career does not make give benefit of the doubt in this situation. "Teen club" or not, there is not one I have been in where I couldn't get weed, ecstacy, coke, speed, or "other". There isn't one where I couldn't get liquor or at least a spiked drink (with/without a license). And the majority do not maintain "clean" records with the authorities. These places are not the CYO. Plus, we're talking about underage kids--most without any sort of parent fear or supervision--out in the 'hood until all hours of the night. Do you think the club is going to "supervise" these "utes" inside or outside their doors? Keep dreaming.

Adding fuel to this are unpredictable (but predictably stupid) teens who don't think things through, get drunk, get high, and cause a lot of "prankster" trouble through the neighborhood because they are invincible. Yeah, adults are stupid too...and they pay the consequences. Teens--unless it is an adult crime--are pretty untouchable and they know it. I did.

I grew up in the old Henry J's neighborhood and went there more than a few times when I got old enough. I had friends who puked in people's flowerpots and shouted at the moon after leaving the place and walking back towards the houses on Glendale. I don't blame those who live near the proposed club for being extremely concerned or saying "I don't want it here".

oldhometown - again, be concerned and vigilant and make conditions with the plan commission and council. those drugs are available in bars and other public places - are you suggesting shutting those down as well. i agree it will likely be shut down quickly, but the owner has a financial interest in NOT having patrons violate the law because he will be shut down if they do and he will loose his investment or worse.

we are all invested in the community and have worked hard to improve the community - hardly the wild west but it is improved over what it was 30 years if we could get the county to stop knocking down historic buildings and closing off streets.

the owners will show plans to the plan commission and the plan commission will require owners to meet with the neighbors before they vote on anything of this kind. if the owner is not meeting with neighbors, he is merely slowing the project down and costing him/herself more money and time.

i am not into pissing matches - i am also not into reinventing the wheel - there is broad experience in addressing these issues. people on both sides have rights. you may want to proactively talk to the plan commission about zoning these out (restricting, that is to say) if you believe it is that important.

there have been many individuals over the years who have acquired significant portions of the WHD and made demands of the city... only to not hold up their end of the deal and then quickly divest their peoperties. there are lots of speculators who make demands but allow properties to deteriorate and often ultimately fail (often at the city's expense). i hope you are there a long time and i hope you succeed... but one never knows....

Wasn't there a teen hangout place next to Kroger on Glendale? It didn't seem to last long. I doubt this proposed "dance hall" would last either although I do not want to compare apples to oranges. When I read the Blade article, I was struck by someone saying that this would give teens "something to do." Shouldn't they be at home doing their homework? If they have free time, they can take up a sport. If kids at the mall cause problems, I can't imagine what this would bring.

Was there a link on this I am missing? Who was asking to develop the place?

I don't understand the location. There aren't any teens that live in that area. How are they supposed to get there? How are they to get home? I don't see any positives in this.

When I was in high school, I often went to a teen dance club in Monroe County. (Oddly enough, it was located in the building that currently houses Alcatraz...LOL) This was in the early 90s.

My memories of the place are pretty tame - I wasn't a drinker in high school, so the availability of alcohol was irrelevant to me. I'm honestly not sure whether or not any of the other teens there had drinks before they came. I suspect at least some did. (I never directly witnessed anyone drinking at the club, so I assume they weren't smuggling it in.)

A lot has changed in that time though. The recent photos and videos from Club Hype are like a whole different world from what I experienced as a teen.

Even though I went to a dance club with my parents permission when I was that age, I doubt that I'd let my own kids go. Which is a shame, because I know from experience that it is possible to go to a place like that and have relatively innocent fun.

The problem is that it only takes a few bad apples to spoil things for everyone. And a club like that would seem to be a magnet for those "bad apples."