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Occupy Toledo Day 7 - A Request

While I was down there this morning at 11a, which is supposed to be assembly time, there were only 5 guys standing around. One of the young guys, who is in yesterdays' video, asked me to please show photo evidence of them stealing electricity. Not one to disappoint, here it is.
http://fredwspd.shutterfly.com/pictures/50

Now I'm not sure what this is but a listener sent it along with other photos from Levis Square which I'll post later.
http://fredwspd.shutterfly.com/pictures/52

http://fredwspd.shutterfly.com/pictures/56
http://fredwspd.shutterfly.com/pictures/57
http://fredwspd.shutterfly.com/pictures/58
http://fredwspd.shutterfly.com/pictures/59
http://fredwspd.shutterfly.com/pictures/60
http://fredwspd.shutterfly.com/pictures/61

created by fred on Oct 16, 2011 at 12:07:22 pm
updated by fred on Oct 17, 2011 at 05:56:47 pm
    Politics     Comments: 20

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Comments ... #

As to the shutterfly pic #52....hmmm, looks like wspd talk radio exudate to me.

posted by holland on Oct 16, 2011 at 01:17:53 pm     #  

I don't know if this is an example of "stealing" power, but here's an image that I posted in a comment on Wednesday evening, Oct 12, 2011 (day 3 of Occupy Toledo) where I mentioned that their Oct 12 evening general assembly was broadcast live over Livestream. The image shows a glowing lamp in the background. Maybe it's battery-powered. Early last week, one of their requests was for flashlights and lanterns.


The first request that I'm aware of by Occupy Toledo for a generator was mentioned on Friday, Oct 14.

Levis Square has pole-mounted lights that are approximately 15 feet high, but the lights have been off. At the Tuesday evening, Oct 11 general assembly, it was mentioned that these lights were off in the summer too, so these lights were not turned off for the first time when Occupy Toledo arrived. Also at last Tuesday evening's GA, it was mentioned that OT may work with Toledo City Council to get the lights to power on for at least part of the night.

On Tuesday night, Oct 11, Occupy Toledo published its proposal to the parks department, which included:

We request all electrical outlets be powered and lights turned on be functional on a timed basis, preferably dusk to 10 PM.

I think OT planned to submit their proposal to city government last week, but I'm unsure if that happened and if city government agreed to OT's requests. Maybe OT submitted their proposal on Wed, Oct 12 and city government complied and that's why it appeared a lamp was working on Wednesday evening.

posted by jr on Oct 16, 2011 at 01:37:12 pm     #  

OccupyToledo should be treated just like all other groups in terms of the electricity usage. If they use any of the power available at the park, they should pay for it.

The cost to turn on the pole lights, if turned on outside of the normal times of operation, should also be paid for by the participants.

The rules should apply to them as they do to everyone else. I'm glad they're following the process the city has established.

posted by MaggieThurber on Oct 16, 2011 at 02:28:04 pm     #  

I think the OT consortium has a valid point. I'll bet they see a shyster lawyer, and then holler "electrical discrimination", from the top of the High Level Bridge.

posted by Wulf on Oct 16, 2011 at 02:58:39 pm     #  

I'm going to keep a small microwave in the trunk, and cook meals, for myself, any time I'm near Electric Avenue.

posted by Wulf on Oct 16, 2011 at 03:04:01 pm     #  

From the Sat, Oct 15, 2011 Occupy Toledo general assembly notes :

Bell says we have to pay for our own electricity

Publication: Occupy Toledo Blade - elect/pick people to edit? Mark & Collette Jacobs of Toledo Free Press might support.

Need to meet with media committe to gather details.

Radio [show] host from WSPD has been visiting every morning, admits he's an entertainer.

I'm guessing that the proposed publication idea called "Occupy Toledo Blade" would be a small, printed newspaper like the Occupied Wall Street Journal. <-- pdf file

The Blade may have an issue with someone else using their name.

Oct 18, 2011 story titled Boston Globe warns Occupy organizers about using its name :

Occupy Boston hopes to raise $8,000 through Kickstarter to launch an Occupy Boston Globe newspaper. Steve Annear reports the Globe has told the group to stop using its name and nameplate. “We do not condone the use of our trademark-protected name and logo by any organization,” says a Globe spokesman. Veteran Boston press critic Dan Kennedy contends Occupy Boston can’t get in trouble for calling its paper Occupy Boston Globe.

In the era of digital info and social media, spending any amount of money to print a paper seems like a waste for an occupy group.


As mentioned earlier, Occupy Toledo is planning an important meeting this Sat, Oct 22 at Levis Square at 1:00 p.m.

I wonder if they plan to discuss moving from Levis Square to Promenade Park.

The move idea was kicked around a little in this Sat, Oct 15 Facebook thread, and the one comment implies that the move idea was discussed at Levis Square. A few comments:

  • I argued heartily today with many other occupiers that moving all the way to Promenade park would stop us from having the conversations with the business people that we have been having during the week
  • Promenade is almost custom built for this. Plus it will increase our visibility exponentially ... Tents and shelters will also be much easier to set up. Plus we get a lot more sun... On the other hand, if you really want to make a big political statement, One Gov't Center has a big plaza.
  • I agree it should be moved to Promenade Park. It's perfect for setting up tents and there are restrooms available. I've heard quite a few people say "Levis square? Isn't that in Perrysburg?" No one knows where it's at, sure they can find it, but if we say "We are Occupying Promenade Park." People know exactly where that is.
  • To tell the average person to camp out in the middle of downtown Toledo without knowing the area, that is going to deter a lot of people. I do think that a lot of people in Toledo would feel safe camping out in Promenade Park though. It adds instant organization to the movement, I think promoting Promenade Park, the name itself will draw more people.
  • The public restrooms are already closed at Promenade Park.

From the Sun, Oct 16 Occupy Toledo notes, it sounds like a visitor to Occupy Toledo had trouble finding Levis Square, which supports what the one Facebook commenter said above, concerning location.

- visitor person: what about visibility, in regards to choosing a location
- - you [were] incredibly difficult to find
- - dale: [been] trying to find admin of facebook page about this

posted by jr on Oct 19, 2011 at 07:17:17 pm     #  

“We do not condone the use of our trademark-protected name and logo by any organization,” says a [Boston] Globe spokesman. Veteran Boston press critic Dan Kennedy contends Occupy Boston can’t get in trouble for calling its paper Occupy Boston Globe.

Veteran Boston press critic Dan Kennedy should brush up on intellectual property law.

posted by oldhometown on Oct 19, 2011 at 08:30:04 pm     #  

I would think The Blade would would take action if their name were used.

They have been very protective of their name in the past.

As I recall, they sued a group who named a publication "The Gay Blade" back in the 70's or 80's.

Does anyone else remember that?

posted by shamrock44 on Oct 19, 2011 at 08:49:23 pm     #  

Well then, if printing an "Occupy Toledo Blade" or "Occupy Boston Globe", which would be political speech, is magically illegal due to trademark violation, then let them sue and see what happens once word gets out that Yet Another Corporation is trying to shut down free speech. Hell, if you Teabaggers had two brain cells to bang together, you'd be on the side of the #OWS people over that because they're out to fuck with the LIBERAL MEDIA!

posted by anonymouscoward on Oct 19, 2011 at 09:01:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

"In the era of digital info and social media, spending any amount of money to print a paper seems like a waste for an occupy group."

No need for an "Occupy Toledo Blade" when they have Toledo Talk, seems to be enough marketing going on here. Of course Occupy Toledo is starting to take on this "If a tree falls in the woods..." thing, so there's always the question of who would really notice.

posted by RBancroft on Oct 19, 2011 at 11:04:56 pm     #  

Well then, if printing an "Occupy Toledo Blade" or "Occupy Boston Globe", which would be political speech, is magically illegal due to trademark violation, then let them sue and see what happens once word gets out that Yet Another Corporation is trying to shut down free speech.

Utter bullshit. "Free Speech" doesn't entail "do whatever the fuck we want" and the hell with everyone else. Your rights, OWS' rights, do not "magically" trump rights of owners of real property or intellectual property.

The name "Boston Globe" or "Toledo Blade" is trademarked and only one entity has the right to use it--the owners. "Occupy _____" can call their shitty little rag whatever else they want and print (how quaint) whatever they want...that's right, they still have free speech.

They cannot just rip off a trademarked name from owners (that also produce a shitty little rag)... owners who most likely do not want to be associated with this movement. Nothing "magical" about that.

If you doubt me, try starting a computer outfit with a happy little apple logo and call it "Appl", "Epple", "Aple", or whatever and see how far you get...

A separate issue is whether the Blade could prove trademark dilution in court. Maybe, maybe not...considering how absolutely pathetic attendance is for Occupy Toledo. The Globe probably has a better chance of proving dilution because there's a bigger crowd in Boston.

Hell, if you Teabaggers had two brain cells to bang together, you'd be on the side of the #OWS people over that because they're out to fuck with the LIBERAL MEDIA!

Trademarks make no distinction between political ideologies. OWS is wrong.

posted by oldhometown on Oct 20, 2011 at 12:30:33 am     #  

Why would right or left want to hurt the media?

If you believe in Free Speech why on earth would you want to muzzle the press?

I may not agree with the slant some of the media takes but a free and active press is vital to safeguard this nation against abuse by the government.

posted by shamrock44 on Oct 20, 2011 at 12:40:02 am     #  

Fred laments that only a handful of Occupy Toledo protesters are in the park. In contrast if you go and view his lame utube videos on average less than 100 dittoheads bother to view them. Oh, its no wonder that WSPD has to run 45 minutes of every hour with Taylor KIA commercials. If this is representative of his radio audience then he is the loser here. As one of the protesters said of the entertainer, "why bother?" Yes Fred why bother? No ones listening!

posted by wolfman on Oct 20, 2011 at 01:14:12 am     #  

oldhometown posted at 12:30:33 AM on Oct 20, 2011:

Well then, if printing an "Occupy Toledo Blade" or "Occupy Boston Globe", which would be political speech, is magically illegal due to trademark violation, then let them sue and see what happens once word gets out that Yet Another Corporation is trying to shut down free speech.

Utter bullshit. "Free Speech" doesn't entail "do whatever the fuck we want" and the hell with everyone else. Your rights, OWS' rights, do not "magically" trump rights of owners of real property or intellectual property.

The name "Boston Globe" or "Toledo Blade" is trademarked and only one entity has the right to use it--the owners. "Occupy _____" can call their shitty little rag whatever else they want and print (how quaint) whatever they want...that's right, they still have free speech.

They cannot just rip off a trademarked name from owners (that also produce a shitty little rag)... owners who most likely do not want to be associated with this movement. Nothing "magical" about that.

If you doubt me, try starting a computer outfit with a happy little apple logo and call it "Appl", "Epple", "Aple", or whatever and see how far you get...

A separate issue is whether the Blade could prove trademark dilution in court. Maybe, maybe not...considering how absolutely pathetic attendance is for Occupy Toledo. The Globe probably has a better chance of proving dilution because there's a bigger crowd in Boston.

Hell, if you Teabaggers had two brain cells to bang together, you'd be on the side of the #OWS people over that because they're out to fuck with the LIBERAL MEDIA!

Trademarks make no distinction between political ideologies. OWS is wrong.

Oh, we have an Internet Lawyer in the house.

Try some words on for size: "Fair Use Doctrine".

Try also spending some time reading some articles like this one: http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-guide/using-trademarks-others

Too bad "The Mental Block" chose not to sue the fuck out of Paul Hem and The Blade. There's probably some lawyer around the area though who would love to take on Block empire pro bono in a First Amendment suit should they go after someone who prints up a "Occupy Toledo Blade".

posted by anonymouscoward on Oct 20, 2011 at 01:23:58 am     #  

Via Techmeme.com on Wed, Oct 19, 2011, I saw this story titled Why we are suing Facebook and a request for help.

Our company owns a valid trademark on the term "Timelines" that is for a particular application, specifically for "providing a web site that gives users the ability to create customized web pages featuring user-defined information about historical, current and upcoming events." We've spent years building this brand and using it in the above stated way on our site Timelines.com.

Facebook, a company that has applied for or trademarked the terms "Face", "Wall", and "Like" as well as sued others for using "Book" in their names, is using the name "Timeline" for a new product that is focused on how people express and share events and history online. Facebook either knew or should have known (given their rigorous defense of their own intellectual property) that the US Patent and Trademark Office granted us this trademark. People at Facebook could have at least contacted us for permission to use or license the name. They did not.

posted by jr on Oct 20, 2011 at 01:49:43 am     #  

To equate the number of people protesting for what they believe to the number of people who view a YouTube video for fun is really ludicrus, and I'm not referring to the rapper.

posted by fred on Oct 20, 2011 at 06:05:27 am     #  

So, if the Occupy Toledo Group can use the Blade's name as part of their newspaper that opens up some possibilities.

Can someone from outside their group can then put out an "Occupy Toledo" newspaper or print up buttons, badges, bumper stickers, etc., and not expect any complaints the group?

I'm just curious what the implications would be?

Granted, this is taking away from the intent of the protest and I don't mean to belittle or throw bricks. I am seriously interested in what the response might be if the shoe were on the other foot. Would there be complaints that total outsiders are misreperesnting the Occupy crowd and a request for the activity to stop?

Would the internet lawyer mentioned above fight for the outside group as well based upon his/her philosophical concern to do the right thing and be consistent? Or would they fight the efforts based upon their more basic instincts of fighting for a paying client and serving the all-mighty dollar. Kind of like they accuse businessmen?

posted by shamrock44 on Oct 20, 2011 at 09:39:52 am     #  

Try some words on for size: "Fair Use Doctrine".

Oh, did I have the temerity to disagree with your perspective? Get used to it. And thanks for the usual belittlement...makes conversing with you such a pleasure.

I know what fair use is. I worked in radio and television for 20 years, managed on-air personnel to know what they could and could not do, and have attended more than a few seminars by actual living breathing lawyers on this topic (and others). No, I have not attended law school, but you don't need to pass the bar to know right from wrong (my "internet lawyer" credentials aside). This is not "quashing free speech" except in your little head.

OWS, OT, others are free to call their rag whatever they want and print whatever they want -- but they can't outright steal a trademarked name as their own. From your link:

The good news is that courts have consistently protected the public's right to use the trademarks of others in order to engage in criticism, commentary, news reporting and other forms of noncommercial expression. As long as what you're doing is really commentary, criticism, or reporting (etc.), and not a surreptitious attempt to sell goods or services, or to deceptively attract customers or readers you otherwise would not have had, you should be able to defeat a trademark claim brought against you.

You interpret that to mean they can use media trademarks all they want because they are engaging in commentary, criticism, or reporting. That's NOT what fair use is. Fair use is exactly what the protesters are doing by attaching corporate logos in the blue area of the American flag--they are doing that to comment and criticize about corporatism, not to unfairly appropriate and sell trademarked logos.

You can't twist it around to mean that you're covered in the media industry if you start a website called toledoblade2.com, thebladetoledo.com, toledotownblade.com, occupytoledoblade.com, or whatever name combination you can come up with. You are providing commentary and criticism, but so does the real toledoblade.com--it's their business! You are infringing on the area they have set out as their business and potentially causing harm. Once again, for an example, start an office supply company called "Office Mix" and see how far you get before Office Max comes down on you. You are infringing on their business-- _un_fairly.

Free speech is one thing. Fair use is another. You are wrong on both counts. And courts are very liberal in free speech issues; however, in this case, a newspaper has every right to defend its trademark against this improper use.

posted by oldhometown on Oct 20, 2011 at 11:21:32 am     #  

Occupy Toledo Blade might cause problems, but they could easily use The Occupy Blade.

posted by JJFad on Oct 20, 2011 at 11:55:35 am     #  

Or several other names, as long as the words Toledo and Blade are not next to each other. I'd even argue that The Occupy Toledo Blade is fine, but such a name would incur legal fees that aren't worth the cost.

posted by JJFad on Oct 20, 2011 at 12:02:42 pm     #  

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